Buying a 382
- Thread starter eah@sylvaninfo.net
- Start date
You will probably never be able to point as high as a Tartan 37 but, you should be able to get close. That is, within approximately 2 degrees of apparent wind. The standard process for solving this problem is to consult with a reputable sail maker, pay him lots of money, and hope for the best. Or, you can wine and dine the guys that prescribe the PHRF numbers.
Jay
Jay
Tanuki
I sailed a Tartan 37 for two weeks on a charter before I bought my 382. I also raced against one often during my local friendly club races.
First, as you say, the 383 is new to you. That means that you have not learned how to best sail the boat. As time passes you will handle your boat better. That's only a natural progression.
Second, the Tartan can move to windward in a whisper of a breeze. When I sailed the one I had chartered I was very surprised how she moved in what most of us would call no wind.
Third, once you get better aquainted with your boat you will outsail all your Tartan friends when the breeze gets above 18 knots. When the wind is between 15 and 18 you should be able to hold them. When the wind gets under 15, they will have the edge as it gets progressively lighter.
The Morgans are heavier boats with more wetted surface than the Tartans. It takes a bit more to get them going.
Equally sailed, the Tartan is a better club racer than the Morgan. But in the right weather the Morgan will beat the Tartan. For cruising and rougher weather the Morgan has the edge. Both boats are well designed and built and can be sailed in any weather condition that most of us will ever encounter.
Enjoy your Morgan,
Larry
I sailed a Tartan 37 for two weeks on a charter before I bought my 382. I also raced against one often during my local friendly club races.
First, as you say, the 383 is new to you. That means that you have not learned how to best sail the boat. As time passes you will handle your boat better. That's only a natural progression.
Second, the Tartan can move to windward in a whisper of a breeze. When I sailed the one I had chartered I was very surprised how she moved in what most of us would call no wind.
Third, once you get better aquainted with your boat you will outsail all your Tartan friends when the breeze gets above 18 knots. When the wind is between 15 and 18 you should be able to hold them. When the wind gets under 15, they will have the edge as it gets progressively lighter.
The Morgans are heavier boats with more wetted surface than the Tartans. It takes a bit more to get them going.
Equally sailed, the Tartan is a better club racer than the Morgan. But in the right weather the Morgan will beat the Tartan. For cruising and rougher weather the Morgan has the edge. Both boats are well designed and built and can be sailed in any weather condition that most of us will ever encounter.
Enjoy your Morgan,
Larry
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
I have to assume, as well, that with the board extended down below 7 feet, the Tartan has substantial "foil" advantage over the Morgan's 5 to 6 foot draft.
tanuki@dmv.com
tanuki
thanks for the input. new sails are being made, and my phrf cert is in the mail. any ideas as to what my rating may be on the chesapeake?
i noticed that when going to windward in 10-15 apparent the top of my mast falls, what i think is, way off to leeward. is this normal for the rig or am i way under tensioned?
i'll try to figure out how to properly use this site...my first experience with a public posting area.
i noticed that when going to windward in 10-15 apparent the top of my mast falls, what i think is, way off to leeward. is this normal for the rig or am i way under tensioned?
i'll try to figure out how to properly use this site...my first experience with a public posting area.
Tanuki. I sail on the Chesapeake and my PHRF is 135. I only race once or twice a year and have only a passing interest in winning based on handicap. For me elasped time is the only criteria that matters. In my opinion, PHRF is very similar to judging figure skating. Knowing how to sail your boat fast is important if you want to win. Knowing the judges is better. The skippers that win in my area are very good at knowing when to lose so they can mantain their PHRF.
Jay
Jay
Jay,
Your not only scarcastic, but cynical as well. But what you say is true. Yachting is now boating and boating has taken on its own politics. It's all a game, and winning or loseing is all a matter of how you play the game.
I do what you do. I enter an occasional club day race now and then. I try to pick my favored wind conditions and a race that does not have a lot of windward work.
Larry
Your not only scarcastic, but cynical as well. But what you say is true. Yachting is now boating and boating has taken on its own politics. It's all a game, and winning or loseing is all a matter of how you play the game.
I do what you do. I enter an occasional club day race now and then. I try to pick my favored wind conditions and a race that does not have a lot of windward work.
Larry
I guess a 4 lb. hook without chain, attached to a 1/4 inch line just won't hold a 38 foot boat.
The interesting thing about PHRF rating is that most occasional racers don't take advantage of asking PHRF for the extra allowances for the gear they carry. If you call your regional PHRF organization ( not the race committee ) and ask, they will send you a form listing all the extra gear that they will allow added allowance from the base rating. As I recall some of this gear is dodgers, bimini, anchor in roller at the bow, added water tanks, added batteries (more than 2 type 27). Most people know about the 3 blade prop allowance.
Meanwhile, the weekend warrior racer is begging the PHRF organization, and the local race committee for a better rating every week because he added a screwdriver to his inventory, or his wife will be aboard and insisted on bringing her cosmetic kit.
It's all a game. We cruiser types generally don't like to play that game.
Back in the 60's I raced under CCA rules and ratings. We were called Yachtsmen back then. There were less people on the water, and the boats that raced were really cruising boats. If you started a race you had a gentleman agreement to finish the race, even if you were not doing well. Taking a DNF would only happen if you had a major gear breakdown. At the after race party, around the yachtclub bar, your character, and seamanship were your reputation.
Larry
The interesting thing about PHRF rating is that most occasional racers don't take advantage of asking PHRF for the extra allowances for the gear they carry. If you call your regional PHRF organization ( not the race committee ) and ask, they will send you a form listing all the extra gear that they will allow added allowance from the base rating. As I recall some of this gear is dodgers, bimini, anchor in roller at the bow, added water tanks, added batteries (more than 2 type 27). Most people know about the 3 blade prop allowance.
Meanwhile, the weekend warrior racer is begging the PHRF organization, and the local race committee for a better rating every week because he added a screwdriver to his inventory, or his wife will be aboard and insisted on bringing her cosmetic kit.
It's all a game. We cruiser types generally don't like to play that game.
Back in the 60's I raced under CCA rules and ratings. We were called Yachtsmen back then. There were less people on the water, and the boats that raced were really cruising boats. If you started a race you had a gentleman agreement to finish the race, even if you were not doing well. Taking a DNF would only happen if you had a major gear breakdown. At the after race party, around the yachtclub bar, your character, and seamanship were your reputation.
Larry
GOD THAT IS FUNNY!
On a serious note - sorry - but this is for 38's. Google your boat or look at the links on this site.
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietrich/BoatModelMorgan.html
I think you'll find that there aren't any sites for your boat specifically.
Enjoy and happy sails!
On a serious note - sorry - but this is for 38's. Google your boat or look at the links on this site.
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietrich/BoatModelMorgan.html
I think you'll find that there aren't any sites for your boat specifically.
Enjoy and happy sails!
Anno: a 1990 Morgan 44 has to be a Catalina-Morgan. I would check the Catalina site for inf
riginal Morgan Yachts built a few 44's that were club racer types with low sloping coach roof.About 8 years ago I saw one at Mackinac Island in Michigan. The boat was from Chicago. Have not seen one since. Hudnut/Stella Maris
riginal Morgan Yachts built a few 44's that were club racer types with low sloping coach roof.About 8 years ago I saw one at Mackinac Island in Michigan. The boat was from Chicago. Have not seen one since. Hudnut/Stella MarisHello;
I am researching boats and have narrowed down to 1980s Ericson 38, 1985 Catalina 38, and a 1978 Morgan 382 in great shape. Does the traveller being just in front of the helm crowd the cockpit?
Any comments on the sailing characteristics between the 3 boats. I am on the west coast of Canada and will be sailing mostly inside waters. Winds typically are 10 to 20 knots.
Toady I watched a Catalina get stuck on a rock as the tide dropped 14'...he went the wrong side of a marker! His keel was a bolted on lead and he had little or no damage. Is there a risk of a leak if it had been encapsulated lead like the Morgan?
I am researching boats and have narrowed down to 1980s Ericson 38, 1985 Catalina 38, and a 1978 Morgan 382 in great shape. Does the traveller being just in front of the helm crowd the cockpit?
Any comments on the sailing characteristics between the 3 boats. I am on the west coast of Canada and will be sailing mostly inside waters. Winds typically are 10 to 20 knots.
Toady I watched a Catalina get stuck on a rock as the tide dropped 14'...he went the wrong side of a marker! His keel was a bolted on lead and he had little or no damage. Is there a risk of a leak if it had been encapsulated lead like the Morgan?
Good Morning! What a great web site. I'm in the process of buying a 1979 Morgan 382 sitting in Mazatlan Mexico. I'll be flying down with an old sailing buddy of mine at the end of the month for sea trials, haul out, and survey. I would like to hear from anyone with advice about things to look for. I'm familiar with Morgans only by reputation, never sailed one.
Hi:
Saw the ad for the boat you are considering on Yachtworld. Looks good in the photos and has had some good additions and modifications.
As the previous post stated, there is a lot of good info on things to look for. Spend some time looking through the other posts - it was a great help to me when we bought our boat last November. All of us have been through same issues - typical for a 25 - 30 year boat. Ours has a Perkins diesel. I don't know much about that particular Yanmar but many on list have them. Big stuff like rigging, engine, wiring, plumbing, condition of bottom, steering, etc. can add up if in poor condition. Generally consider instruments & electronics to be of little value since get dated quickly and repair becomes difficult.
Surprised that there are no dorade vents - I guess in San Francisco, ventilation is less important. Dual anchor rollers are nice, #52 primary winches are nice, surprised that for a racer, the 12' spinnaker pole is too short. (J dimension is 16.3')
Good luck.
-Alan
Paragon, Lake Lanier, GA
Saw the ad for the boat you are considering on Yachtworld. Looks good in the photos and has had some good additions and modifications.
As the previous post stated, there is a lot of good info on things to look for. Spend some time looking through the other posts - it was a great help to me when we bought our boat last November. All of us have been through same issues - typical for a 25 - 30 year boat. Ours has a Perkins diesel. I don't know much about that particular Yanmar but many on list have them. Big stuff like rigging, engine, wiring, plumbing, condition of bottom, steering, etc. can add up if in poor condition. Generally consider instruments & electronics to be of little value since get dated quickly and repair becomes difficult.
Surprised that there are no dorade vents - I guess in San Francisco, ventilation is less important. Dual anchor rollers are nice, #52 primary winches are nice, surprised that for a racer, the 12' spinnaker pole is too short. (J dimension is 16.3')
Good luck.
-Alan
Paragon, Lake Lanier, GA
dickkilroy
Richard Kilroy
jon: i own both a 1978 morgan 38-2 and a 1982 catalina 38. the morgan is in new england and the catalina is in the bvi. the 6ft 9 inch draft catalina is a better sailboat for general sailing conditions and goes to weather very well. the morgan has a better deck and more friendly interior in my opinion. the catalina's were raced in the congresional cup for 13 years. a friend had a erricson 38 in the bvi for a number of years and found the boat to be too tender for conditions there
dick
dick
Good day
I've been looking at a 79 382. having read most of all info from yall the real expert's (owners) You as a group have shown me what to look for. I do have a couple questions about this particular morgan. the cabin sole was replaced at the bottom of the companionway starbord side, foreward of the quarter berth.
are there any known problems in this area? this vessel is hull #119 built in late 78.
any info will be appreciated
JOE
I've been looking at a 79 382. having read most of all info from yall the real expert's (owners) You as a group have shown me what to look for. I do have a couple questions about this particular morgan. the cabin sole was replaced at the bottom of the companionway starbord side, foreward of the quarter berth.
are there any known problems in this area? this vessel is hull #119 built in late 78.
any info will be appreciated
JOE
kenk
Ken Kurlychek
Joe,
Here's my response to your question on this topic that is on another thread--the one titled, "382 cabin sole." FYI: you can edit your profile to have postings sent to you by e-mail.
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I have some discoloration in that area that I believe is from a deck leak that trickles down the side of the hull and pools underneath the three vertical drawers just forward of the nave table. It's an issue to address on my to-do list but have not yet investigated further. Anyway, I believe that in heavy rains, the puddle must be soaking into the floor in that area. Perhaps the boat you are looking at had a very bad leak in the same spot as mine and it ruined the sole in that area. Look under the three drawers for signs of water intrusion. Also look in the small locker under the nav table.
Ken (M384 "Mary T")
Here's my response to your question on this topic that is on another thread--the one titled, "382 cabin sole." FYI: you can edit your profile to have postings sent to you by e-mail.
-----
I have some discoloration in that area that I believe is from a deck leak that trickles down the side of the hull and pools underneath the three vertical drawers just forward of the nave table. It's an issue to address on my to-do list but have not yet investigated further. Anyway, I believe that in heavy rains, the puddle must be soaking into the floor in that area. Perhaps the boat you are looking at had a very bad leak in the same spot as mine and it ruined the sole in that area. Look under the three drawers for signs of water intrusion. Also look in the small locker under the nav table.
Ken (M384 "Mary T")
I have rust and scalling on the rudder post at the packing nut on my 1984 / 384; leaks water. I have looked at the archives and it seems that Foss Foam is the place to purchase a new rudder. My question is has anyone purchased a new rudder from anyone else? And is there a better repair solution short of replacing rudder?
Tom
Tom
jnoble
John Noble
I have some corrosion on the seal face, and was thought you were suggesting replacing the shaft was an easy fix. I just repacked and so far no leak. I have not loaded the boat or motored to see what happens when the stuffing box is under water.
Tom, repack the stuffing box and clean up the scale and rust with a scraper and emory cloth.
Tom, repack the stuffing box and clean up the scale and rust with a scraper and emory cloth.
John,
The corrosion is deeper than just on the surface. I used emery cloth and it did not even start to remove the scale / oxidized surface. I then used a screw driver and chisle in an attempt to determine the depth of the scale and rust; again no luck.
As I see it I have two choices: grind down the area to a depth where there is only good material or have the shaft X-rayed; both options require removing the rudder from the boat.
Having explored my options I have decided to purchase a new rudder from Foss Foam who have a mold for the 384 rudder. I often sail off shore on the Texas coast and plan on a trip to Isla Majeras in Mexico in the near future; I would not like for the rudder stock to break off.
Removing the rudder, cutting out the bad area and welding new stock on to the rudder would be 60% to 70% of the cost of replacing the rudder and there would be no quranties that the remaining metal in the old rudder is not also compromised; 24 years is a long time to be sitting in salt water.
Thanks for your replys.
Tom
The corrosion is deeper than just on the surface. I used emery cloth and it did not even start to remove the scale / oxidized surface. I then used a screw driver and chisle in an attempt to determine the depth of the scale and rust; again no luck.
As I see it I have two choices: grind down the area to a depth where there is only good material or have the shaft X-rayed; both options require removing the rudder from the boat.
Having explored my options I have decided to purchase a new rudder from Foss Foam who have a mold for the 384 rudder. I often sail off shore on the Texas coast and plan on a trip to Isla Majeras in Mexico in the near future; I would not like for the rudder stock to break off.
Removing the rudder, cutting out the bad area and welding new stock on to the rudder would be 60% to 70% of the cost of replacing the rudder and there would be no quranties that the remaining metal in the old rudder is not also compromised; 24 years is a long time to be sitting in salt water.
Thanks for your replys.
Tom
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
Jim: I think the users of the board would be very interested to know the contruction details of the rudder Foss will build for you. For instance, what does the metal framework look like and what are its dimensions, what is it made of (I assume and hope it all stainless?), what the lamination schedule is, what kind of foam they use, if they do, to fill voids, if they are using your old gudgeons or supplying new ones, and whether they are doing anything different than what they did for Morgan 20-30 years ago. Oh, and what it cost. thanks.
Terence,
I am not Jim but I will fill you in on what I have been told.
"We make the rudder by painting on gell coat, laminating fiberglass, laying in the stainless steel and mixing and pouring 20 pound per cubic foot density closed cell polyurethane foam. This process occurs in one day thus providing a part that is totally cheically bonded."
I have recieved a quote for 2064.00 for the rudder. Bottom line is that Foss Foam is the only company that has the mold for the 384 rudder. Any one else would have to make the mold and start from scratch. The original rudder lasted 24 years so I hope to get at least that much use out of the new one.
The hang up is that I have to pull the old rudder and measure the shaft and key way and provide them with the measurements. I plan on a quick pull at the yard to pull the rudder and put in a stainless shaft plug back in the boat. Then place the boat back in the water and tie up to the yards dock for the week to 10 days it takes for the new rudder to arrive. Then pull the boat again for a quick haul for the yard to install the new rudder. Foss is recommending that we apply a barrier coat to the new rudder prior to bottom paint; sounds like a good idea.
I will take photos of the old rudder and the new one prior to it being installed. I will post any photos if I can figure out how to post on this site. I will also post a diagram of the 384 rudder with measurements for anyone needing them in the future.
Foss has measurements from prior shafts but they indicated that Morgan and others have modified rudders in the past and there is no way to be sure of shaft length unless we measure.
Tom
I am not Jim but I will fill you in on what I have been told.
"We make the rudder by painting on gell coat, laminating fiberglass, laying in the stainless steel and mixing and pouring 20 pound per cubic foot density closed cell polyurethane foam. This process occurs in one day thus providing a part that is totally cheically bonded."
I have recieved a quote for 2064.00 for the rudder. Bottom line is that Foss Foam is the only company that has the mold for the 384 rudder. Any one else would have to make the mold and start from scratch. The original rudder lasted 24 years so I hope to get at least that much use out of the new one.
The hang up is that I have to pull the old rudder and measure the shaft and key way and provide them with the measurements. I plan on a quick pull at the yard to pull the rudder and put in a stainless shaft plug back in the boat. Then place the boat back in the water and tie up to the yards dock for the week to 10 days it takes for the new rudder to arrive. Then pull the boat again for a quick haul for the yard to install the new rudder. Foss is recommending that we apply a barrier coat to the new rudder prior to bottom paint; sounds like a good idea.
I will take photos of the old rudder and the new one prior to it being installed. I will post any photos if I can figure out how to post on this site. I will also post a diagram of the 384 rudder with measurements for anyone needing them in the future.
Foss has measurements from prior shafts but they indicated that Morgan and others have modified rudders in the past and there is no way to be sure of shaft length unless we measure.
Tom
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
Tom: Sorry I wrote the wrong name. So, ask them if they will give you or if you can tak a picture of the stainless framework, okay? that would be great to see. Or maybe even better, tear apart your old rudder and post pictures of its guts. Now, don't feel obligated to do this. I have never gotten around to posting pictures of my work on the site, although I love it when others do.
TLT
TLT
Jim,
I have a generator sitting in the port cockpit locker and it weighs the stern down in the water so that a part of the rudder post tube is below water. This is the reason there has always been a leak coming from the rudder post. I will ask Foss Foam if they have a picture they can e-mail me of the tanks and how they are attached to the post.
Another reason for replacing the rudder is that there are about 20 to 30 small blisters on the rudder and I am a little concerned that water may have penetrated to the tanks.
Off the subject a little bit. It seems that the Morgan 38s are becoming popular in Texas; there are three of us on one pier at the marina. One is under going a rehab complete with new mast and sails and the second one's owner has indicated he plans on restoring his at a later date.
Tom
I have a generator sitting in the port cockpit locker and it weighs the stern down in the water so that a part of the rudder post tube is below water. This is the reason there has always been a leak coming from the rudder post. I will ask Foss Foam if they have a picture they can e-mail me of the tanks and how they are attached to the post.
Another reason for replacing the rudder is that there are about 20 to 30 small blisters on the rudder and I am a little concerned that water may have penetrated to the tanks.
Off the subject a little bit. It seems that the Morgan 38s are becoming popular in Texas; there are three of us on one pier at the marina. One is under going a rehab complete with new mast and sails and the second one's owner has indicated he plans on restoring his at a later date.
Tom
