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Winterizing

kenk

kenk

Ken Kurlychek
Hello to all;
Cold weather is here on the Chesapeake and this will be my first winter with my 384. I've read the manual about all the steps to winterize my fresh water system however I'm not sure if the water heater is getting any anti-freeze. (Yes, I'm using the correct anti-freeze for marine/RV fresh water systems -- not standard anti-freeze.) I have a 1984 384 and I'm quite sure the water heater is original but I can't see any manufacturer's name on it. There is bronze plug at the bottom but it doesn't look like it's ever been removed and my attempts to remove it were futile. I didn't want to pursue the removal if it wasn't necessary. So, I was wondering, if I'm circulating anti-freeze through all the water lines, it must be going through into the water heater, too, right? If I'm wrong, can someone tell me how to winterize the water heater specifically? All my previous boats were much smaller and had very simple plumbing.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Ken
 
Ken,

If you turn on the hot water at the faucets and you have your anti freeze you have winterized the hot water system.
It will just take you a few gallons of extra antifreeze because it runs through the hot water tank. What I do is winterize the cold water system first, I then run the hot water system which empties the hot water tank then fills with the antifreeze. As soon as I have pure antifreeze at the faucet I am done. That should leave about two gallons of antifreeze in the hot water tank. I then unscrew the bronze plug and recapture the antifreeze. I let some run down into the bilge and save the rest for next year. As I said takes about two gallons extra. You can buy from an RV store a kit to stop the water from entering the hot water tank. Thus you shut off the flow of water to the hot water tank, empty the tank via the bronze plug and your done. I don't think it is worth the effort. The only mistake I made the first year was to run the hot water and cold at the same time. I was empting the hot water tank and filling it with antifreeze at the same time. Took an extra 6 gallons because I did not get pure antifreeze until the hot water tank and the diluted antifreeze was completely replace by pure antifreeze.

Hope this helps.

John
 
Why would you put antifreeze in a fresh water tank? I can understand the bilge and other areas where water might stand. The standard procedure is drain the fresh water system, including the water heater. Nigel Calder has a checklist for winterizing your vessel.
Jim
 
I agree with you Jim. I did it the antifreeze way the first year I was in NY and then met Mr. Cleary, (s/v Dana) and he set me straight. Just drain the system properly and there should not be any problems, I have done this now 3 times and everything is working fine.

The anitfreeze did make an awful smell too!

Captn Steve
Powell's High Life
Rochester, NY

 
I don't actually put antifreeze into the fresh water tank. I disconnect the feeder line from the tank in the v berth. Attach a tank with the antifreeze and run from that.

I would love to forget the entire process. How do you drain the entire system? Do you blow air to make sure the lines are drained??

John
 
I have a 'faucet' installed in the line from the water tank (starborard) and the system (port) which resides over the bilge which I empty after all other installed drains are emptied.

Drain on the hot water heater and also one on the cold side also.

Captn Steve
Powell's High Life
Rochester, NY
 
Ken
There should be no reason to put chemicals into the fresh water system. On the original plumbing system there are 6 drain points that allow the entire system to self drain by gravity. Just open those 6 plugs and open all the faucets. Each water tank has a plug (the stbd tank plug is below the dust pan in the cabin sole), the hot water heater (original) has two, the accumulator has one and the last one is under the galley sink in the cold water piping that goes forward to the head. Of course over the years all the systems have undergone owner changes so they may not resemble the original. If your boat doesn't have drain points it would be advisable to add them instead of adding chemicals. I have a winterizing checklist that is specific to my 1978 382 "Dana" but most of it is generic to all our boats. If you e-mail me with a mailing address I'll be glad to send you a copy.

Jim Cleary saildana@aol.com
 
Before there was a potable antifreeze we all winterized our fresh water system by draining, and also blowing out any excess water. Back then most water systems were hooked up with flexable hoses, so water had a habit of finding a low spot in the flex of the hose. That was why we needed to blow out the system. Even with the draining and blowing out you would have to replace a length of hose every now and then. Prestone type antifreeze (the green stuff) was used by some to winterize the head, and anything else that was on the boat and might freeze.
I don't see anything wrong with either method. If you wanted to put the potable antifreeze through your entire system, and never remove any plug, that's fine. I imagine you would use about 10 gallons at a cost of about $25. If you are otherwise comfortable with pulling plugs and draining, and are confident that you got all the water out, that would work as well. And you would be $25. richer. What ever makes you more comfortable is what you should do.
Larry
 
Njord doesn't have any of the drain plugs mentioned in this thread so I do what Larry suggested. I can now do the engine and water system with about 3 gallons. After draining the tanks, I put a gallon in each and pump it through the cold water system and catch it at the spigots. I then open the hot water tank drain and suck about a quart throught the head and galley hot spigots and let the tank drain finish draining. I then run the rest of the 2.75 gallons into the engine heat enchanger. I flush in the spring and then shock the water system with chlorine.

Jay
 
As Jay suggests, chlorine is a good commissioning additive for your water tank. We use a cup of Clorox in each tank after a quick freshening flush. After adding a cup of Clorox we fill the tanks, let them sit for about a half hour, then drain them. We then fill them with fresh water that we will use. The water from Southerly's tanks taste as fine as any tap water. We use it to brush our teeth, make coffee, and to cook with. Admittedly, freshly opened bottle water tastes better, and we use that for drinking. But that's only because the water in the tank has been sitting and getting stale. The same would happen if you opened a bottle of water, drank some and left it for a week.
I look into the inside of Southerly's tanks every spring. I insert a mirror into the inspection port. The inside of the tanks are clean. I believe that they are clean because of the clorine wash that they get. As Jay has suggested.
Larry
 
With the old Ranger, before I became a liveaboard, I would empty the water tank and add a 1/5 of cheap gin, and pump it thru the system. Come spring, I would add a few gallons of water, pump that thur and it would leave the tank with a chrisp clean taste.

With the Ranger and the Morgan I have a T with a diverter valve in line on the engine intake. To winterize I cut the water off to the thru hull, divert the intake from the thru hull to the T into a bucket of 50/50 antifreeze and run the engine until I see "green." It takes about 3 gallons. This system makes it easy to grab a day of sailing when the weather gods give us a gift in Dec/Jan/Feb and then re-winterize the engine.

Of course, the best option is to liveaboard somewhere south of NC and never have to worry about winterizing.

Fairwinds and Hot Buttered Rum,

Vic
 
Polypropylene is nontoxic. However, since it is completely miscible in all quantities and proportions, its toxicity or lack thereof, is not much of an issue. This is because it can be flushed from the tank to a degree that any polypropylene residual will not result in detectable concentrations in the water. Chlorine on the other hand, is toxic and should be used judiciously. Fortunately, it prefers being a gas and not a liquid and will eventually volatilize out of the water and exit through the tank vent. It also has become an accepted toxin in this country, in much the same way cheap gin and fluoride have. So I guess the answer to your questions are; 1)antifreeze and 2)I don't have an effective method to blow out my lines so therefore I use antifreeze.

Jay

 
Since 1993 I have owned a 1983 384 (Romance)and simply disconnect the line at the bottom of the hot water tank which drains it, I then disconnect the galley lines so they drain. I then attach the pump line and Head hot and cold water line to a T joint and then pump less then a gallan of RV winterizer thru the Head system from the water tank. Come spring I simply reverse the process with fresh water. I quickly refreshes itself with a little clorox. There is NO need to run winterizer thru the hot water tank.
 
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