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Water Tank Replacement

J

jdgreen

Jay Green
Has anyone replaced the main watertank beneath the starboard setee ? Mine has a major crack (don't ask) of some two feet in length and I don't think a repair would hold.
Anyone know where I might obtain a replacement ? Thanks, Don
 
Don: There is an outfit in Falmouth Ma. who has a catalogue,semi-custom tanks. World Wide Enterprises is the name. Scot Sargent is the man's name, also Marion Sargent. Phone 508-540-0963. I have not had a problem with the tank so thats all I can offer. Good luck

Dick Kilroy
 
I'm hoping to repair the tank. If that doesn't work, I'llprobably wait till the off-season to try to replace the tank . It looks like major surgery.
Don
 
We had the ubiquitous cracks around the tank's outlet and tried the 5200 fix recommended on the board in the past. We filled it up Saturday and it seems to have worked. If you can reach the crack, it might be a good option. R&J
 
Thanks to all. I went to the West Advisor who didn't know what to suggest other than that I contact a company up in Maryland who manufacture the poly tanks West sells. They suggested melting a material, they were kind enough to give me, into the crack. Is 5200 OK for potable water systems ? A guy at the West store in Deltaville sold me Marinetex for the job. I contacted them and was told it wouldn't adhere and was not for use with drinking water systems.
 
I'm planning to replace the port water tank. Having read all the older archived messages, I gave up on finding a roto-molded or other hard replacement tank. I was going to use one of the soft tanks sold by West and Boat U.S. One of the larger sizes seems like it would fit. With the old tank removed, the space is smooth the new tank might not suffer from abrasion. But I was going to line it with some sort of rubber or other soft liner. Wouldn't this work for you, or is there some factor I haven't thought of?

Nick Lore
 
The main advantage of 5200 is that it is still somewhat flexible (rubbery) after it dries. Since most of these cracks are caused by flexing of stiff objects (the tanks), a hard repair would probably just break out again. I think Marinetex dries hard.

I don't recall if 5200 specifically mentioned use in potable water tanks, but we used it on such a small area it's probably fine.

I just cleaned the tank, let it dry, then reached down and slathered it into and around the cracks with my finger.

Rob
 
I had a leak at the bottom (outlet) fitting of my forward water tank under the v-berth. It was welded with a plastic rod of some sort and a very hot air blower. It has not leaked in over a year. There was also a crack at the inlet fitting at the top which I stopped with 5200. So far so good.
Ray
 
Earlier this year I developed a leak in my starboard water tank and I am in the process or fixing it. I have learned that Kracor no longer manufactures this tank and so I am exploring repair options. I want to inform the group of what I have learned my success or lack thereof. I have cut the settee open and have exposed the tank. What I have learned is that the tank has a capacity of 60 gallons according to the label on it. It fits like a glove into the internal glass unit that incorporates the fuel tank and water tank cradle. This cradle is gel coated to the same appearance and finish as the head IGU. It appears that it would be relatively easy to convert the cradle in to a water tank. This is one of my options. The others are to buy a custom tank or to repair the one I have.

Research on repairing polyethylene tanks has resulted in three options:

The first is to scuff the area and fiberglass the damaged section with epoxy. I have eliminated this option already.

The second is the process that the professionals use, to weld the seam with heat and ethylene welding rods. I am familiar with this process and know that it is tried and true method but requires skill.

The third is to use a product called Eternabond tape, which I know nothing about. The manufacture claims that repair of poly tanks is what is was made to do. Does anyone on the board know of this product?

I will keep the group informed as I go. For now though, if anyone knows anything about Eternabond tape, please educate me.
 
Jay: How and where is the internal unit glassed to the hull? What holds the tank into the unit--just the top of the settee, which is just screwed down? Or are there additional straps or members to help hold the tank in should the boat turtle? Is the unit under the tank solid, or is there a cut-out, so you can see the hull underneath? (this might be important if one had to make a hull repair at this part of the hull.) Is the fuel tank also "dropped in" to the IGU, or is it actually integrated as part of the IGU? (This would help me decide if I can replace the tank with a larger one?)Finally, although I am not good at doing this, so I hesitate to ask, it would be great if you could take some pictures of the area once you have the tank taken out, so we can all understand better how the IGU is constructed and installed. Thanks very much.
 
There is mechanical repair option that works in some cases-- if you can reach in through the fill hole and you can reach to get nuts onto through-bolts that hold a repair pressure plate (brass or SST) over the cracked area. the seal is made by capturing a rubber gasket between the tank and the repair pressure plate. the more screws the better (up to a point)and these are SST also.

IMPORTANT: Also be sure to drill a small "crack stop" hole at the end of the crack before you effect a repair by any method. This little hole (.093"??)will spread out the stresses that are causing the crack and will very likely dispel any further cracking. I am not making this up it really will help.

I did a mechanical fix once years ago on M382 #002, which has a single big poly tank on starboard but NOT glassed in.
The crack was near the vent I think but in the flat, and it seemed to work for a long time. Soon I will need to repeat it (or I have another) so the welder idea seems interesting if we can find someone near Baltimore/Annapolis to do that. Also what about that tape which sounds like an educated big brother of Duct Tape (name of Eternabond makes me think they seal caskets with it, and named by a funeral director), and I want some!

Yes keep us other leakers advised of your progress.(mine is up high and only bothers me on a big heel on port tack, and when I am filling the tank. Better yet, during the winter it doesn't bother me at all...

I agree nothing/no adhesive will work on polyethylene (this is called the high density variety I think), so do not bother.(maybe as a gasket, use RTV bathtub stuff under a pressure plate.) Also I would not want the urethane in 5200 in my drinking water by any means. carcino-something I would guess. But maybe you could sue 3M for not telling you to not do it, this often works on cigarettes. Then you can buy us all new tanks? (this is meant to be funny)

Carl
SV Courante Annapolis
 
Has anyone thought of using a bladder type water tank dropped into the space? I think Nauta makes them. They make both water and diesel tanks in various sizes. RV suppliers sell a product to repair water tanks. Possibly check Camping World website.
 
Jay,

What type of boat do you have?

Also, I would explore the idea of cutting a hole in the top of the tank and then dropping a bladder inside the old tank.

Tom
 
Guy's: Nauta tanks are French and are imported by Imtra in New Bedford Mass. I have two of them in my Catalina in the BVI, this will be there 7th year and they are fine. Mine are not vented. I also have the same leak in my 38-2 up here, It is definately in the area of the vent connection. As Jim mentioned someone up here told me RV stores have a product that will patch this. I hav'nt tried it yet as Carl said it only leaks a small amount on a port tack.

Dick
 
I plan to remove the tank over the holidays. Hopefully, I will have a few pictures also. Until then:

Terry: The tanks just sits in the cavity in the IGU and is held down by the settee. I work with tanks as a professional and would not recommend strapping down any tank that was not designed and engineered to be strapped down. I've been involved in several catastrophic tank failures that were due to tanks that had been strapped down. I believe that the way Morgan installed these tanks (at least mine) was adequate given the era it was built. My tank failed because I did something stupid, not because it was improperly installed. I confused the water and waste tank deck plates and tried to pump out the water tank. The vent collapsed and then the tank. The poly tank manufactures recommend foaming the interstitial space around tanks that are bigger than ours. They recommend tanks over 50 to 60 gallons, depending on shape, be foamed in place. This should be easy to do on a 382,3,4.

Carl: I like your idea. I have found a couple of custom fabricators that are close to us ( I live in Alexandria and hail out of Solomon's Island) I doubt that they will repair another company's tank or will charge us at least the price of a new custom tank for the repair. One company is in Philly and the other in the Shenandoah Valley. I guess you can call that close to us. The Eternabond website recommends drilling holes at the ends of the crack also. Good tip, thanks. Ironically, the Eternabond product looks good but the name makes me wonder. It sounds like the Company President's third grader name the product. I agree that our tank is constructed of HDPE.

Jim and Tom: I have a 384. There is a baffle in the poly tank that may complicate a bladder installation. I've used bladder tanks in previous boats and I believe that they may work despite the baffle. I haven't been able to look at the IGU without the poly tank in place. But, if I convert the IGU to a tank I may use a bladder. I found Eternabond through a RV website. It may be the product you referenced.

Happy Holidays --- Jay
 
so interesting - looking forward to the pics.
When I bought Papeche, it leaked at the exit neck which was cracked (at the elbow in the hanging locker). I had a guy cut the tank out and unfortunately, I was deployed at the time when he did the work. I had an exact replica SS tank built with baffles and a 6" inspection port on the top...built at an aircraft metal shop and it wasn't too cheap - I think it was $1100 back in 94. Ouch. But, it's bullet proof...for what it's worth.
Nauta tanks - highly recommend them - I have one in the Vberth, right in front of the shower - 30gals and the other long one is in the port berth - 40 gals.

The comments on the fuel tank are very interesting to me. I can't believe all the space under the tank! what a waste of fuel space and it's right on top of the keel which is great placement for the extra weight...would be a bear to haul out the other one without tearing out the whole cabin sole... now if someone's going to try that - I want in on the process as I'm interested in it too.
When I did my trans-At with 4 jugs on deck, it was ok, but I didn't like having them constantly awash when in rough stuff.

anyway - merry ho ho ho to all.

tc
 
The tank is out and I have pictures of the IGU. If I can get it togeter, I will post them tommorrow. The IGU looks like a fiber glass bath tub and it completely supports the tank. The tank had a 3 foot long break on the side that lays against the inside of the hull. The hull gives this side complete support. I have welded a portion of the tank with high temperature heat glue and it appears to bond very well. I glued the end of a one inch wood dowel to the tank to allow me to pull the crack together for bonding. The bond between the end of the dowel and the tank will support the weight of the tank which is about 25 pounds. I plan on welding it back into place and then applying the Eternabond tape for insurannce.

If anyone can give me a quick primer on posting photos I would appreciate it.

Jay
 
Hi Jay:

Posting photos to this discussion thread is easy - just use the "upload attachement" button below and browse to the folder where your photos are. If you take megapixle photos, you may want to reduce them a little first so they fit better. Otherwise it may be more useful to post them under the Photo Gallery section under Special Interest - might be easier to refer to later. I don't know how you do that.

-Alan
 
Please post them at a small size! The large photos are impossible to learn from and take up to much space.
 
Here are six pictures. Please forgive me if I crash the board. After several attempts to repair the tank, I have decided to pursue a custom-built tank. My problem with the repair was that the plastic in the tank was under a little bit of stress after construction. When it cracked, the two sides of the crack did not want to go together as well as I wanted. So, I continued to try and force the two halves together while I glued with a heat gun and glue stick. By the time I had learned how and how not to do it, I had heated and reheated the plastic so many times that I started to lose confidence its strength. The crack is in Pic 4 and runs between my hands. However, I believe that these tanks can be repaired with heat gun glue.

Jay
s/v Njord

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Pictures of starboard water tank

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Pic 2

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Pic 3

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Pic 4

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Pic 5

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Pic 6
 
Here is an update on the water tank. For those who live in the Washington D.C. Baltimore, MD area, Precision Plastics in Beltsville, MD can repair or build tanks from HDPE. If you only have a leak and the repair is non structural, i.e., your just plugging a hole or fixing a small crack, I would glue it with high temperature stick glue and a glue gun.

Jay

s/v Njord
 
Update number two. Precision Plastics in Beltsville, MD has informed me that they are able to buy the OEM tank from Kraco. Kraco is setting up the mold for the tank to do mine through Precision Plastics. They wouldn't do it for me. So, if you are interested in a starboard water tank, now is the time to order.

Jay

s/v Njord
 
I'd love to have a port water tank - too bad they aren't the same size and shape. So far, (knock on wood) our stbd tank appears to be in good shape. But we would like additional capacity and the security of multiple tanks.

-Alan

Paragon, Lake Lanier, GA
 
I'd love a starboard and a port! I wonder how many others also need one or both... Seems like this forum could be used to generate enough interest to persuade Kraco or Precision Plastics to make them both available.

Joe
 
Water storage means a loss in other storage space as well as much more added weight! Sailing is always a compromise!
Jim
 
According to my owners manual, some boats were built with optional (additional) water tanks under the port settee and more rarely a third tank under the v-berth. I've not heard of a second factory installed fuel tank.

My preference would be to have the extra water tankage to port and keep the weight out of the bow. More water in a second tank is more valuable to me. (unless you have a good, reliable water maker) I'm ok with carrying additional fuel if needed in jerry cans on deck or in a bladder tank that can be drained and stored.

-Alan
Paragon, Lake Lanier, GA
 
Our boat had the second tank under the port setee install at the factory.

We have never had a problem with capacity off-shore or gunk holing.

I would much rather have water than fuel. After all it is a sailboat. I'll use only one to two tanks of fuel in a season and I don't like to keep fuel too long anyway. An the other Alan said you can always carry cans or a bladder if your going to the ends of the earth.

Go for the water and keep it low and towards the middle of the boat. A lighter bow will not bury itself as easily.

Alan Shapiro
s/v Emanon
 
The previous owners lived on the boat in the Bahamas for two years and outfitted the vessel accordinly Since I plan on taking the boat to Mexico and Central America; I am glad to have the extra tankage. Theres nothing llike being hundreds of miles from land and have to worry about fuel. Most of the time the bow water tank and port fuel tank are empty and therfore no weight. The boat also has a water maker, therefore I shold not want for hot showers.

Tom
 
Can anyone tell me the model numbers on the starboard and port tanks? Mine are faded and impossible to read. I'm working on getting some replacements but those numbers would really facilitate things.

Thanks,
Joe
 
Tom -

Can you tell me more about your port fuel tank - size, placement, how its filled, etc... Any pictures ? Thanks for any info.

Steve
 
Steve,

The port fuel tank is under the port seating; opposite the water tank. It is a poly 20 gallon fuel tank. This tank has its own fuel fill and vent lines and is not connected to the bilge / main tank. There is a manifold under the galley sink, which allows me to switch tanks.

I drilled a hole in the top of the tank and installed a brass fitting with plug. I unscrew the plug and insert a wooden dowel to measure the fuel in this tank.

The main tank has a gauge that is not accurate.

I think a better design would be to have the second tank empty directly into the main tank. This would require a valve between the two tanks. When you use 20+ gallons from the main tank then open the valve and empty the contents of th 20 gallon port tank into the main tank.

The advantage of the way that I have the two tanks arranged is that if one is contaminated then you still have a second seperate fuel supply. There is always pluses and minuses with any system.

Hopes this helps.

Tom
 
Tom -

Thanks for the info. There is a spot under the port seating just forward of the sink. I have an alcohol tank there - but I'm thinking of coverting to propane. This looks like the perfect spot for extra fuel (or batteries) and could be drained to the lower tank. I'll look for access for a deck fill and vent.

Any suggestions out there for use of this space ?

Steve
 
We have a 384 with a Starboard 50 gallon H20 tank and a v-berth 40 gallon H20 tank. The Port setee is used for storage and there are water lines that run through it from the Head to the Galley. It would be nice to somehow have an additional holding tank for the Head. When away from dock for days 15 gallons is not enough.

Larry
Romance
 
I've been meaning to post this for about a year now. Maybe it's not too late for me to help someone avoid the hassles I went through. I tried so many things. I left them at a plastic fabricator for over a month until they finally told me they could not replicate them. I then contacted the same people who made new tanks for Jay and they told me that they lost so much money on that job that they were not interested in helping me for any price. In the end plastic welding was the answer and Victor at Plastic Depot in Freemont, CA was my savior. He cut the cracked ends entirely off the tanks and plastic welded on new half inch thick ends (even after I made a mess of them with my own plastic welder.) I actually had him take 1/4 inch off the length of each tank, so they would not fit so tightly. The tanks have been leak-free for over a year now.
16623.jpg
 
My 1978 Morgan 382 has two water tanks. They don't seem to leak but they sure are noisy when full. The constant sloshing when at anchor is pretty annoying especially at night. Has anybody had this problem and solved it?

John
 
I would say you need either internal baffles or added insulation. The problem is that there is little room for insulation.
Jim
 
Yeah, I've been thinking about baffles or at least something that would disrupt
the surface. I don't want to cut the top of the tank out and the access port
is only about 4" in diameter. Maybe I could stuff something in there that
would be safe for drinking water but would stop the slosh. It would need to
float and be removable for cleaning. Possibly some 1" polypropylene rope would work? I'm not sure if it is safe for drinking water though.
 
I've never noticed any sloshing noises. I'm wondering how much sound insulation the seat cushions provide and weather John's tanks are not covered by some nice thick foam . . .

Is it possible that John's plastic tanks were replaced with something noisy like thin sheet-metal?
 
I've removed the plywood top covers on both the starboard and port side tanks.
They are the standard white plastic ones. I have the normal 3" foam in the
seat cushions. The sloshing is pretty loud and sounds like waves against the
hull. But its not. As soon as the tanks are drawn down about 1/2 way the noise
stops. It seems weird though that no one else is reporting hearing this.

John
 
I had a SS tank built by a firm near BWI - don't have the name anymore. There's baffles - nice job - but it still sloshes around - not too noticeable.
 
How about 1/2" closed-cell foam cut to the shape of the water surface in the tank and then rolled up and inserted into the tank through the access hole.

Maybe all the rest of us have been assuming that noise was waves against the hull and now maybe it will start to drive us all crazy.
 
A good contribution to this site would be to identify the manufacturer and model of our water tanks. The tanks in my 1984 M-384 were made by Kracor, http://www.kracor.com/support/holdingtanks.pdf, as their name is on the inspection lid. I called them, and their sales records only go back to 1997. However, they have a record that Morgan-Catalina purchased Tank 5072 at some previous time. This tank has the same volume (40 gal.) and rear dimensions as my forward tank. I can not get to the front of the tank for measurement, but I think this is the forward water tank in 384's and other M-38's with a tank under the v-berth.

This tank is still available for $470. I think there is a good chance the starboard tank (volume by meter, 50 gal.) was a stock item, and is still available. Kracor said their model number is on the tanks near the fill pipe fitting. If anyone has a tank out, please check for this number. Alternatively, if someone has the dimensions, please post them. If these tanks are available from Kracor, it would solve a lot of the problems discussed in this string. They would be a drop-in replacement.

Thanks, John
 
We just spent three and a half months on Wanderlust in Baja. We were anchored out every night when we weren't
underway. The sloshing got to me after a while but at least I could look forward to silence after the tanks were drawn
down a ways. However next winter I plan to install a water maker and keep the tanks topped up. So I need to solve this. I think the 1/2" closed cell foam idea just might work. I can try that relatively inexpensively. There would be a slight loss of volume but with a water maker that wouldn't be so important. If it worked I could avoid the hassle and expense of tearing out the tanks and replacing them with bladder tanks or new baffled rigid ones.
 
The original starboard tank was a Kracor Model 1-5083. Unfortunately, the mold was discarded. However, if enough people wanted tanks, a new mold could be made with its cost distributed over the tanks in the production run. It would probably take a dozen or more tanks to justify the extra cost. But considering the problems in repair or replacement (tanks need to fit tightly in their saddle), this is not unreasonable if a group of us need tanks.
 
Good information on the tank replacement option but I think
I'll try the foam to see if it quiets the sloshing. Volara is, according to the product sheets non-toxic and FDA
approved for contact with food. Its cross-linked closed-cell polyethylene foam. I'll try it in a 1/4" thick
sheet. Its available through many sites on the internet. I plan to order it from
http://www.foamandupholstery.com/volara_foam.htm. FDA info is available at
http://www.foambymail.com/Volara.html

John
 
Are you thinking of putting it in the tank? Not sure if this is a good idea - it would increase the surface area where bacteria could grow.
 
Its true that nothing should come into contact with drinking water that isn't insoluble and/or inert. Cross-linked
polyethylene foam is insoluble and inert. Our State Department of Health (Washington) requires that anything that
comes into contact with comunity drinking water supplies must be NSF 61 approved. Cross-linked polyethylene is
NSF 61 approved though I could find no listing for foam. So I checked whether the product had an FDA approval for
food. That's the next best thing to a NSF 61 approval. It is FDA approved. As far as bacteria is concerned I plan to
remove it periodically to clean it. Also I normally add bleach to the water. I try to maintain a chlorine
concentration of 1 mg/l which should take care of any bacteria.
John
 
Is there a way to remove the stbd water tank without sawing a hole in the furniture? Can it be unscrewed somehow without taking the whole boat apart? If you must cut the hole, where to cut? The pictures posted above are a great help but could use some technique details. You all know how how much trepidation there is in cutting up your boat. Thanks
 
Hi John:

If you are taking names for a new starborad tank, add me to the list. We only have a single Port tank. For any extended cruising, I want a second tank - both for capacity and to have two independent tanks.

-Alan
 
Alan, a question, a port tank only? I thought the port tank was an option and the boats came with a stbd. tank only.

In a boat as small as the Morgan, why not add a water maker instead the weight and loss of storage in adding another tank? I would add a diesel tank under the vee berth and gravity feed it into the main fuel tank. Carrying diesel jugs on deck is unsafe and a pain!

Jim
 
Jim,
I dunno about that statement. To each his own and style of sailing - if you're bay sailing - ie going out for no more than a week's cruise or going down the ICW, or coastal sailing on the west coast - you're right. Maybe more diesel is better.
Blue water sailing passage making - water to fuel ratio is a choice every mariner has to tackle him/herself - too many variables.
I had 2 crew with me, so I put a flex Plastimo tank in the port and already had a 30 gal in the bow - water is important. Water makers are expensive and an added expense to maintain, much less having the support infrastructure to keep them going (larger batteries/gensets etc).
I believe KISS but GO Sailing - 3 separate water tanks to prevent contamination and 4 diesel jugs in between the stays - worked fine - I had 65 gals of diesel and 120 gals water. both were pretty low when I made landfall after both my Trans-Ats, but plenty left for contingency planning.

I don't understand why you say it's dangerous to have jugs on deck?

Again - it's about "how you do it" which puts the requirements on your needs.
We showered and washed dishes with salt and rinsed with fresh. Worked fine. If the prospective cruiser "needs" (ie wants) a shower daily- then buy the $3000 water maker, beefed up alternator etc and of course more diesel to run that puppy when recharging... or run the genset one hour a day...man o man...the maintenance of all that...just for a shower...

not me.
 
Added weight high on boat, risk of spilling, plastic jugs deteriorate over time and fail or leak, and stress on the rigging are few good reasons. Think about how they will act in 30 plus winds and heavy seas.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/jerry-cans-on-deck-59349.html

You can make water but not diesel. Genset? Main engine, solar or wind will do the trick to charge batteries.

You are correct in saying that the needs of everyone is different. I was simply referring to 120 gallons of water on a 38 foot cruising boat with limited storage space and weight concerns. Weight of 120 gallons of water is 1000 lbs.
Jim
 
Excellent comment and that's the point. Most of the comments on the other forum show how practical it is to have them on deck - I don't believe attached to the stanchions is very smart because when you're healed over, they can easily be awash - and that is some serious force even at 3 o4 knots! I never had water up to the cabin roof, but did have my gunnels awash.

The real point here is whatever works and floats your boat.

Ref solar and wind - I'm asking here cuz I dunno - a watermaker runs for 1hr - it's what? 40A for 10 gals? How much solar can handle that?
 
Hi Jim:
Sorry, you are correct - I am looking for a port tank to supplement our stbd tank. I am directionally challenged. If I point to port and say "starboard", you should go by the gestures - hard to do online.

I agree that additional fuel capacity is needed but relying on a single water tank even with a water maker doesn't seem smart. Sure we carry some "spare" water in 5-gallon and 1-gallon jugs but this would not make up for the loss or contamination of the primary water tank. Having a second tank just makes sense.

I have talked with other circumnatigators who share the thought that more fuel and less water is a better combination. I don't agree. It is true that if everything works, you can make water but not fuel. Water makers are more reliable now but they still require a good deal of maintenance and have multiple failure points. We rely a lot on our mechanical systems. But in the event of system failure, we are still on a sailboat and with fresh water to drink, we can go the distance.

Not saying, I wouldn't like a water maker but it's a lower priority than a second water tank. True, extra water adds weight but impact on stability when carried below the waterline is low.
-Alan
 
Wow Jim, no one is disagreeing with you, just showing another approach - it's all good you know as long as we're under way.
Thanks for the info on the solar/wind:watermaker ratio info.
That's what makes this board so cool for the past 16 yrs I've been on it.

To illustrate what Alan shared, I was a couple of days out from the Azores when a spray of water coming from the a pinhole in the raw water pipe shorted out my regulator and my spare!(lesson learned there about protecting them now with tupperware)
We shut down all unnecessary electrics and kept the batteries topped off by wind generator and the good thing I had my "Arnie" the Aries windvane. Wish I had a solar panel at that point - couldn't afford it - hell - still can't!
The point here is we had about 35 gals of water left after 12 days at sea with 3 people onboard.
We sailed to within 1 mile of Horta and motored up to the reception dock.
45 days later, my parts arrived by sea... Horta and Pico are very cool islands to visit! The sailing gods wanted me to stay there and enjoy.
Had I had a watermaker, I don't think I would have used it unless in extremis.

But we were out there sailing our butts off and loving life!

Smooth sailing and fresh warm breezes!
 
All very useful discussion. thanks to all. On Solar, I don't have a big stern arch and I know if I put something on the cabin top, it gets shaded. The top of the dodger might work, but it is a soft dodger and my family likes sailing with it down often. Where in the hell do we put sizeable solar panels on our boats. I have seen brackets along the after quarter life lines, but then I can't swing my winch handles. Suggestions?
 
I have the 384 with the water tank under the V-berth and one starboard tank. I still do not know the exact capacity of my tanks. I intend to buy a cheap water meter that screws on to the end of a hose so that I can get a clue. They are accurate to about +/- 10 % and are not expensive.

It is a bit disturbing that there are so many water tank leaks. My forward tank developed a leak at the pipe fitting. It was cracked outward from the threads in several places. So I plugged the fitting with a pipe nipple and a cap. Then, since the tank is pointy and V-shaped at that end, I filled it with thickened epoxy until I just covered the fitting. Finally I put a thru-hull just above the epoxy and connected the hose. So far it is holding fine.

As far as jugs for water, we always used the collapsable plastic jugs when we had to jug water. We jugged water fairly often in the Bahamas because there were often docks that we just could not get to except at high tide or they were too crowded. The collapsable jugs develop pinhole leaks at the corners from being folded, but they store nicely and they are cheap. A five gallon jug with a pinhole leak would lose maybe a quart in transit.

This time we bit the bullet and bought a Spectra Ventura watermaker. Big bucks. Fortunately, a wind machine came with the boat. Its a six blade Ares (Areo6gen) that is not too noisy, we'll see. There is an outfit called Eclectic Energy that makes a D400 six blade machine. There is one on my dock. It starts turning before any other wind machine in the marina. It is almost silent and is the only machine approved for use in urban London. Honestly, I couldn't believe how quiet it was. Unfortunatel, is costs almost twice as much as other machines, about $2200.

We are keeping our eyes open for solar. Prices are coming down and efficiencies are going up. Probably will wait until the last minute.

Tim
 
Terry,

I attached a 30W flat solar panel to my hatch cover (see pic)and while it is not the ideal location from a shade perspective it is out of the way and get several hours hours of full sun everyday. Easily keeps my five batteries topped up full. Two Kyocera 85W panels will mount nicely over a bimini. This yeilds 200 watts total. Attach them to a MPPT regulator and you can get up to a 25% bump-up to 250W. Divide that by 0.33 and you get 82 amps per day. probably a bit optimistic but you get the idea.
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30W solar panel
 
All,
Sorry about the format of the last post. I really must figure this out.

Anyway, I want to share my recent tank issues. My starboard tank had a big crack originating at the filler neck. I went through the usuall thoughts. My mechanic gave to me the name of a guy that saved my tank. His name is Bob Esquavel. He owns a company in Henderson, NC called Salare Inc.(http://www.salareinc.com/) Phone 1-800-293-1004. The company manufactures laboratory hoods out of sheet polypropylene, but on the side he build/repairs tanks for rvs and boats. This man is a true craftsman, does beautiful work. He cut off the broken end, installed two full sized baffles, fixed another small crack on the underside and triple welded on a new end with reinforced outlets all done in one week and for $200. He also steamed cleaned it. So I now have a tank that is better than new and should last the next 30 yrs.
If you have a tank issue and are willing to pay shipping or drive to Henderson, nc like I did he will fix you up. My highest recommendation
 
Jesse, I like the set up of the 30 watt panel. Is that one of the flexible panels? What if someone steps on it? What kind is it? thanks.
 
OK, I'm about to start chopping a hole in the stbd setee to extract the main water tank. Thouhgt I'd ask one more time. Has anyone out there found a way to get the tank out without cutting the hole in the setee top? Is there a simple way to disassemble the furniture to get it out.

For those of you who have cut the hole; how did you get the measurments for where to cut?

Thanks

Bob
 
My tank had to be cut out - I have not heard of another way.
My settee base was cut 1" from the settee back/bulkhead and along the athwart-ship bulkheads. A 6' piano hinge was attached. To open and close, there's 2 screws locking it closed. Access is now quite easy. No structural harm done that I've noted.
 
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