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Standing rigging replacement

T

terry_thatcher

Terence Thatcher
More advice sought on this topic. My turnbuckles look fine--no cracks or major flaws. But, according to all the books, I should put "penetrating dye" on them to check more closely. I can't find anywhere in Portland that sells such a thing. Anybody have any suggestions?
Also, at least one boat yard told me I should not only replace all the wire rigging, but all the turnbuckles every 10 to 12 years. Well, turnbuckles are not cheap and I wonder if that is not overkill. I know that 10 year replacement is a standard refrain, but I thought it was just the wire one replaced, not all the big turnbuckle hardware. I would appreciate comments from you others with our 26 and 28 year old boats--have you folks all thrown away the Navtec turnbuckles based on age alone? thanks.
 
The surveyor that did our boat (and found the cracks in the rigging) said that iodine worked well as a dye and was much cheaper and readily available. Sometimes just marking up the fittings with a Sharpie or other marker will highlight cracks.

I'm not sure I would replace turnbuckles just based on age alone. Of course I would err on the side of caution and conservatism. If I were planning to do extended cruising, bluewater trips away from ready supply of replacements I may also opt for replacement.
But if there is no apparent damage, no problems with threads, no cracks, pitting, etc. I'd probably have a hard time throwing the stuff away. Obviously, all it takes is a hidden flaw, or something overlooked to ruin your day.

We have a 26-year old racing boat (Santana 20) The wire standing rigging and turnbuckles are original. We race it hard, it has been subjected to a lot of stress, but we take good care, it mostly lives in fresh water and eveything looks good.

As I said earlier, we replaced all the standing rigging and turnbuckles when we bought Paragon because we found cracks in a few. One less thing to worry about.

Good luck with your decision.

-Alan

Paragon, Lake Lanier, GA
 
Terry,
You have to do what you feel comfortable doing. You won't be comfortable if you will be thinking about the mast falling down while you are sailing. Southerly's standing rigging is original, 1979. I have replaced the running rigging. I pull the mast every 5 years (it's out this year) and do a good close inspection. We have a yard next door to our club and the rigger comes over to give it a final look over after I have. Last time he told me everything was in fine condition. His sailboat has 35 year old rigging and it's just fine.
But if you feel funny about it, then you have to change it.
We do costal cruising, Long Island Sound to Maine. If I were doing an ocean crossing I would change my standing rigging just because of the age, even if my rigger told me it was okay.
Be comfortable,
Larry
 
Thanks Larry for the objectivity. People are assuming the sky will fall (or their mast) just because somebody else is worried it might.

SV Courante, 382 Hull #002 launched 1977, original rigging looks great. My opinion: the nine year stuff is the marketing folks getting your goats and your money.

Of course if my mast mast falls down next season, well then-- I am the goat. But I bet it won't.

Carl Miller
Annapolis MD
 
It would be nice if Mr Anonymous would put his name on the board when making a statement such as that!
 
Have you ever received advice from a group known as "They Say"? Well, I figured out who "they" are. They are a grouping of Anonymous'.
 
Guys: Just be careful I replaced Vixen's rigging 2 years ago, boat is a '78. Reason rigging failors on my '82 Cat 38 in the BVI. This boat had lived in the great lakes untill '96, then was in Florida stored until I purchased in '99. In 2000 I took to Caribean and riggiong started to fail in 2004. Candy cain look to the wire then single lines unwinding. Replaced all shrouds that year, 2005 backstay failed, the fitting looked fine but on examination there were only 3 of the 19 that were not totally rusted, or broken. I was fornuate and did not loose the stick. I think location has a lot to do with this. This experience made me change the 38-2 rigging.

Dick

Dick
 
Terry:

Dye Penetrant can be purchased through Grainger (grainger.com). It is a two part system. After cleaning the surface you spray on the dye penetrant. After the prescribed time you spray on the developer. Any cracks will show up red. The Grainger item # for the Dye Penetrant Kit is 3WU63 for $50. If you want to by the dye and the developer separately you can.

I'm a Marine Engineer by trade and I use dye penetrant routinely. It's very good and easy to use.

I have a 382 Hull #80 that I bought new. We still have the same standing rigging.

Best of luck

Frank
 
I am in the process of re-rigging Oconee as we speak. All the rigging was 30 years old and way way overdue for replacement.

My plans are to replace all with standard wire, new clevis pins, new togles, and new open turnbuckles (not Navtech). However, Oconee thru me a curve. I have a Profurl - 42L and the headstay turned out to be rod rigging.

In talking with the previous owner he installed the Profurl and rod headstay about 10 years ago. Inspection of both the Porfurl and rod appear to be perfect (looked at it with a magnifying glass).

I am considering just replacing the togles at the bottom and the turnbuckle and adjustment rod. Do any of you have experience with rod rigging? What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

Vic
 
It is my understanding that the forks at the top of our shrouds (and most Morgans) are military specification. This means that both ends of the swage are open. Water can therefore get into the wire at top of the swage inside the fork. I thought they were like aircraft forks that are sealed at the far end of the swage. Also, mil spec forks are deeper than aircraft, and to use aircraft, the tangs need to have an 1/8 in. or so ground off the bottom. Mechanical terminals have 1/2 in. pin vs. the 7/16 pin with the original forks. To switch, the hole needs to be drilled out.

I know of a 1984 M-384 just like mine that was recently dismasted when an upper shroud failed, so I am seriously thinking of rerigging my boat. What I would like to know is if ours have encountered this and what they did? Also, can you go to the top of the mast without upper shrouds, or do you need to use halyards or something to support the rig?

Thanks,
John
 
Military Specs? I never heard of that term regarding standing rigging. These are all marine grade fittings that I have seen.
Jim
 
Somewhere between 11 years and 25 years, always in salt water.

The issue on types of forks was told to me by Glen, the rigger at JSI (Johnson Sails). He has done work on Morgan rigging, and at one time worked them.

My question goes unanswered!
 
At that age, it is probably time to replace or risk failure. I equate rigging replacement to replacing tires on a motorhome or trailer. If the tires look good and have few miles on them but are older than 7 years, it is time to replace or risk a blowout.

The forks should be the same at each end. Are you saying you have the original standing rigging?

Jim
 
Revising an old thread - I am having my standing rigging checked and likely replaced this spring, it is 33 years old (except maybe the roller furling forestay) and even if it checks out okay, I think I should get it replaced. I am planning on moving my boat from Lake Superior to the Atlantic late summer this year and spending about 3 years aboard more days than not for sure.

My boat is 4 hours away in the winter. I'm having conversations with the local rigger and he wants to know what size wire and pins I have. I think I have the original. Any knowledge of what wire and pin sizes for standing rigging for a 1982 383 ?
 
Rolf - I have a 382 with original rigging. I'm also replacing mine. I don't know if the measurements are the same for the 382 and the 383, but this is what I have.

Except for the split backstay, all wire is 5/16". The split portion of the backstay is 1/4"

Lower pins on the 5/16" wire stays are all 5/8".

Lower pins on the split backstay are 7/16".

Upper pins on the shrouds and stays are 5/8".

Upper pins on the lowers are smaller than 5/8", but I need to verify measurements.
 
I replaced the original 1978 rigging in 1999. I recently removed the cap shroud and lower shroud chain plates tested them along with the turnbuckles with dye penetrant.(no defects) I then replaced all the fasteners with passivated 316L machine screws. I will be transitioning to 9mm Colligo Dyneema Dux standing rigging this year. The backstay goes up this week.
 
John, I just purchased a 1980 382 a couple months ago. The po put long eye sta lok terminals on all the shrouds, the port forward lower has a longitudinal hairline crack about 1" long. I got the rig professionally inspected and they noticed a couple more cracks in the long part of the sta loks with a magnifying glass. They said the rig was original and that only the terminals were replaced at some point and recommended replacing all standing rigging and fittings. I'm seriously thinking of going with colligo dyneema dux and am wondering how your experience has been. Have you had to do much rig tuning do to creep since installed? did you keep a wire headstay? do you still use turnbuckles? Any advantages/disadvantages over your previous rig replacement, or in sailing performance? Any info on your rig is much appreciated!

Tyler
 
I replaced the standing rig on my 1984, 384 a couple of years ago. I had the upper fittings swaged and used Hayne Hi-Mod mechanicals on the lower ends. I did the job one stay/shroud at a time, tying off a halyard for mast support and spent lots of time in the bosun's chair. I hired a young, strong helper to crank me up and down and send up tools as needed. Whole job took about 3 1/2 days as there was some tricky stuff with the Harken Mk1 furler that I needed a professional advice to solve. I bought everything from Rigging Only and highly recommend them. They were great to deal with on price and got back to me immediately with the solution to the furler issue (the guys who own the company are pro riggers.) The Hi-Mod fittings were easy to use and are completely re-usable. The upper forks for the shrouds were and are standard marine fittings not military grade. All in I saved about $2,500 over having a pro do the job.
 
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