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Solar questions

moltzvt

moltzvt

David Moulton
I am looking into solar panel installation for Namaste', currently have a small battery charging panel that does well keeping the house batteries charged up between trips to the boat. But I am looking to add refrigeration in the near future and want to have a solar panel set large enough to maintain as I am on a mooring. Currently I have little internal draw that gets recharged while motoring or the small recharging solar cell. I am thinking 200 watts with a bit over 10 amps available in good weather. I have a large house bank that was at one time 800ah, they are getting older but mostly looking to cover 2 to 3 days per trip. What are others using and how did you mount them? Seems like costs have come down considerably, is there any type of panel I should steer clear of?
 
I have 200 watts but a small bank (285ah). While on a mooring last winter for a month, I still ran my motor (Balmer 100amp) about an hour a day but this kept up no problem. When I was gone, I turned off the fridge. I put my semi-flexible panels directly on my Bimini (snaps and Velcro), 4 panels 50w each. I used two 10amp Genesun MPPT controllers, one for each side, hoping that would keep the most watts flowing. Purchased at Annapolis boat show. I think if I had more batteries an additional 100 watts might be sufficient to keep my motor charging down closer to 1 time every 2-3 days, though I haven't spent a lot of time in the south, and my fridge is poorly insulated.
 

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David,

Encourage you to assess and address short comings in Nameste's ice box insulation prior to or during the installation of a refrigeration unit. Adding a refrigeration unit to a poorly insulated box will result in poor performance and much much higher power consumption. Spend your time and $$ making the ice box more efficient, before you spend time and $$ generating power to cool and inefficient ice box. Then once you have properly insulated the box and used your new refrigeration for a trip or two, then you will have a good idea of amount to power generation it will take to meet your systems needs.

Solutions for addressing shortcomings with the M38x ice box insulation can be found in multiple threads on this board. I chose to rebuild the entire box.... of course.... Here is a link to photos from the project. Ice Box Rebuild Photo Album. The box now has a minimum of 4-1/2" of insulation on all sides and up to 6" on bottom. The new box has about the same capacity as the original. Still have not completed lid modifications or installed the evaporator box. Would I recommend a full rebuild? It is certainly not the fastest or least expensive solution. Have heard of others simply adding insulation to the inside of the box (con = smaller box) or cutting holes in sides and using spray foam to fill voids (con = inconsistent insulation quality / thickness).

Any solution you chose, I believe you will be better served by first addressing the insulation in the box.
 
Jeff,

Absolutely correct. It's all about the fridge. I spent a couple of months reinsulating my fridge. I used plain old Dow-Corning blue board with great results. I have 600 amp-hours in the house bank and 350 watts of solar with a Morningstar 15 amp mppt controller. We can sit at anchor indefinitely running the fridge, water maker and everything else without starting the engine. In fact my alternator is the stock Yanmar (4jh5e) 80 amp model.

Tim
 
Some great info here, interesting feedback for me and anyone with the same thing in mind, keep it coming. Jeff, I had seen you project some time in the past and aware of how poorly insulated the box is based on how fast blocks of ice disappear. I like what you did and have some planning to do as I get ready for this project.
 
David
On board Dana, our 1978 382 #53, we have 225watts of Kyocera solar panels on top of the bimini. They are enough to keep our systems running and battery banks full unless we get 5 days or more of rain in a row. On our last trip from NY to Florida we had to run the engine less than 5 times solely for amps. What allows this to happen is a Frigaboat refrigeration system with the keel cooler and compressor speed controller. Also the ice box was completely rebuilt with 4" of solid foam insulation and a reduction in size to about 6 cu ft. The original ice box on the Morgans were woefully inefficient and MUST be rebuilt before installing any refrigeration system. Our battery banks are 300ah house bank of Lifeline AGMs and 100ah starting bank of AGM. Most of the lighting on board, including stern light, anchor light, reading lights, and cabin lights are LED. Solid solar panels produce more amps and last longer than flexible panels. Kyocera has a 12 year warranty on their products, very good!

Jim
 

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Jim, I am looking at solid panels as well and very interested in how you sub-frame above the bimini is attached. I was considering something similar. I am assuming short stubs off the bimini frame with stitching to accommodate. Your boat looks great by the way.
 
Friends, I want to have some sort of temporary panels I can drape over my dinghy (carried on forward cabin top under way) to supplement charging. Is there some sort of truly flexible panels I can use? (I am also installing 200 watts over the Bimini on a bracket hung between two stern poles.)
 
David.
Thank you very much. To mount the panels I ran two 7/8" SS tubes fore and aft. (In the photo you can see the white chair tips sticking out.) There is a slight bend in the tubes to follow the shape of the bimini frame. They are attached to the bimini frames with 7/8" frame clamps with 1/4" x 20 bolts. (I'll photo and post the clamp arrangement tomorrow when I get out on the boat.) The tubes are then spanned by strips of 3/4" x 3" starboard in line with the mounting holes on the rails of the panels. The panels are then bolted to the Starboard with 1/4" x 20 machine screws. The bimini top was then modified to be able to remove it from the frame without having to unbolt anything. The bimini frame and the panels stay up all the time. In the winter when she is on land the panels keep the batteries topped up. When we expect heavy weather, the bimini top is removed and the frame is given a lot of additional tie downs. So far it has survived through 3 hurricanes. Our panels are wired in parallel then to a single Morningstar controller. As Rolf has done, you could use multiple controllers to get more amps out. But, as Jeff has said, the first thing that needs to be done before setting up a solar power system, is to rebuild the icebox.

Jim
 
Took some photos of the solar panel mounting today. Let me know if they help.

Jim
 

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A recent posting on sailboat.com by "Mainesail" (a marine electrical tech), stated that many Chinese flexible solar panels do NOT reach the stated amp output. Many disapointed owners/batteries/and re-dos.
To Jim Clearys point, you might be well advised to buy brand name hard panels. $'s ahead in the long run. But what do I know? l recharge with a Honda 2000 generator!
 
dave_a said:
A recent posting on sailboat.com by "Mainesail" (a marine electrical tech), stated that many Chinese flexible solar panels do NOT reach the stated amp output. Many disapointed owners/batteries/and re-dos.
To Jim Clearys point, you might be well advised to buy brand name hard panels. $'s ahead in the long run. But what do I know? l recharge with a Honda 2000 generator!
Click to expand...
Does that work? Diid you just buy an adapter to connect from the gen to the power hookup on the stern?
 
As Dave said, the flexible panels, while they are better shaped to fit on top of bikinis and dodgers, are not always able to produce their rated amps and are subject to early failure due to their flexibility. With the fixed panels the biggest concern is having the cells blocked with seagull poop.
We have a Honda 1000 that we carried on our first trip down south. The 12V output was connected to a deck plug that went directly to the house bank and the negative shunt. It worked but was heavy and loud. The generator is no longer carried.

Jim
 
Sorry - "sailboatowners.com" - here's a link to the article. Note - a seller of flex panels posted a positive experience he may/may not have concocted. "Mainesail" called him on it. As always, "if its on the internet it has to be true" .

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...d-inexepensive-amp-clamp.179257/#post-1297543

John Wild - yes the honda works....120v to shore power to my xantrex. Its not ideal from a charge time or tranquility POV. Here to for, I've been a 2 week a year cruiser. It sufficed.
 
dave_a said:
Sorry - "sailboatowners.com" - here's a link to the article. Note - a seller of flex panels posted a positive experience he may/may not have concocted. "Mainesail" called him on it. As always, "if its on the internet it has to be true" .

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...d-inexepensive-amp-clamp.179257/#post-1297543

John Wild - yes the honda works....120v to shore power to my xantrex. Its not ideal from a charge time or tranquility POV. Here to for, I've been a 2 week a year cruiser. It sufficed.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave...noted
 
When traveling aboard our M34 we also carried a Honda 1000. Pre-solar panel installation, we used the Honda frequently to charge up banks when on the hook for longer periods of time. Post solar the honda generator became more of a backup system. We also use the honda for powering power tools tools when doing boat projects on the hook. Plan to carry it aboard Pilgrim when we move aboard.

Here are images from our Solar Panel install on the M34.... Solar Panel Install Photo Album We installed two rigid 80W panels & a BlueSky charge contoller. The 160W system covered all of our energy needs while on the hook in the summer time. Expect to increase the size of the system by one or two panels when me move it over to Pilgrim.

I fabricated an air tight storage box for the Honda 1000. This allows us to carry the generator below decks without the fear of gas fumes escaping. The box makes a great foot rest in the salon. Here is a photo album... Generator Box Photo Album
 
Thanks for more great info. Jim, the photos are perfect. I was thinking an entirely separate frame for the solar panels but this looks good and if its working for you... John, I purchased a Ryobi generator when I first bought Namaste' and a back up for my trip from Rock Hall to lake Champlain. I wanted to know if I had charging issues there would be a solution. I have kept it on the boat because I spend the summer without an AC option. I find it most useful for hot water as we shower on the boat a lot and if I have not had an engine run its a better option than adding hours to the diesel. Its as quiet as I think any portable can be and I do not use it around others in the marina or in quiet bays. Yes it will run the water heater and then I let my on board battery charging system top up the batteries as it can produce up to 40 amps. I set it on the rear platform and just my adapter pigtail reaches the shore power connection.
 

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Jeff
Slightly off subject. How do you post the groups of photos that you do? And can you add descriptions of the individual photos if you wanted?

Jim
 
moltzvt said:
Thanks for more great info. Jim, the photos are perfect. I was thinking an entirely separate frame for the solar panels but this looks good and if its working for you... John, I purchased a Ryobi generator when I first bought Namaste' and a back up for my trip from Rock Hall to lake Champlain. I wanted to know if I had charging issues there would be a solution. I have kept it on the boat because I spend the summer without an AC option. I find it most useful for hot water as we shower on the boat a lot and if I have not had an engine run its a better option than adding hours to the diesel. Its as quiet as I think any portable can be and I do not use it around others in the marina or in quiet bays. Yes it will run the water heater and then I let my on board battery charging system top up the batteries as it can produce up to 40 amps. I set it on the rear platform and just my adapter pigtail reaches the shore power connection.
Click to expand...
Dave
How much was it? How much does it weigh? Where did you get it? Can I get one for my birthday?!;)
 
jimcleary said:
Jeff
Slightly off subject. How do you post the groups of photos that you do? And can you add descriptions of the individual photos if you wanted?

Jim
Click to expand...
Jim,

Are you speaking of the links I provided.

Example... Solar Panel Install Photo Album

These are links to albums created within the Google Photos Application.

Most of the photos do have a description / caption. The caption will appear in a side panel on the right side of the screen when looking at a single image (click on image to view single). If you are not seeing the caption when in this view, then click on the white circle with the letter "i" in the upper right. This will open the information panel that contains the caption, date taken, location, etc.

Does this answer your question? If I am off base with my answer please let me know.
 
wild382 said:
Dave
How much was it? How much does it weigh? Where did you get it? Can I get one for my birthday?!;)
Click to expand...
John, 590.00 or so, 35-40 lbs, Home depot, if you were good this year, yes. I keep in in the port storage area, a bit if a job to lift out.
 
I've got 450 amps of battery power via 4 Trojan T105. 250 watts of solar via 1-100 watt flexible solar panel on my Bimini and 3-50 watt panels on my dodger. Frigoboat fridge with keel cooler, no freezer. I reduced the size of the box and added insulation. My solar keeps up with 100% of my power demands. I've been living on the hook since last October, and I never have to run my engine to charge my batteries. Ever. I haven't had shore power since last September. I do have a 160 amp alternator available should I ever need it. So far, I haven't needed it.
 
Awesome Ken, particularly the "living aboard since October", congrats!
I will be doing a battery re-wire this fall and may move to the 6Volts as so many others have. Where do you keep your Trojans?
 
Thanks, Rolf. I've actually been living aboard since July 1st, but on the hook since October.

The four Trojans fit in the original battery locker under the quarter berth. I moved the engine start battery to the port cockpit locker. I removed the floor of the locker and built a new shelf for the battery.
 
Ken, Thanks for the information and looks like a good set up for me to work toward matching. I will start with the 200 watts and see how it works out. Should be easy to add the extra 50 if necessary. I can see this will change my plan for house battery replacement at some point as well, no need for such extensive storage after this upgrade. After looking at Jeff's frig box upgrade I was surprised how little insulation was installed originally. I will surly have to plan on a rebuild. Very informative.
 
Check out SUNPOWER solar panels They are 50% more efficient than 90% of all the panels. Sold only thru a dealer. They are more money but more solar panel per inch 200Watt same size as other 75 watt panels. More power in the same space ! I met a dealer in Boot Key and was amazed !
 
I opted for three 50 watt panels on the dodger instead of a single larger panel to mitigate power output reduction because of potential shading on the panels. If one panel has a shadow, it won't cut the output of the other two.

All of the panels go through a single Blue Sky Solar Boost 3000i MPPT charge controller. My best solar day so far produced around 85 amps.

All of the panels claim to have Sunpower cells.
 
Just finished my solar panel addition, added 2 -100 watt panels, the panels and controller cost me 265.00. Decided to use the Bimini and followed James advice, not to the tee but close. Had to add some structure to the original Bimini framework, pics attached.IMG_9555.JPG IMG_9549.JPG IMG_9555.JPG IMG_9549.JPG IMG_9555.JPG IMG_9549.JPG I will need to add up what I spent on 1" stainless tubing and fittings, likely as much as the panels. I was able to find 1" .65 wall stainless on amazon that is polished, not as shiny as what I ordered from Sailrite but close and a lot less costly. Twenty-five feet of #6 wire from the panels to theIMG_9548.JPG IMG_9552.JPG IMG_9551.JPG starboard quarter birth where my controller is mounted and batteries below. Have 4 of 6 volt 225 AH batteries. Have not had much time aboard but was seeing 7 amps after getting them connected on a partly cloudy day. Fully charged and on float when I returned a week later.
 
i have a 200 watt panel and a 150 watt panel. all after the ice box rebuild. I still use dry ice in the bottom with ice cubes on top for a cruise. its good for 14 days at least . I have a holding plate and divided the box in 3 rds 1/3 for the freezer 2/3 for the refrig part. That area next to the plate freezes meat hard ! all workerd well on our 90 day trip south fla last year. We are going to try to go to the Exumas again 2017 !
 
During the summer we have 3 of these panels mounted individually using antenna mounts at various angles on the radar arch and 2 more on the boom (all 5 from ebay). I use 1 Genasun mppt lithium solar controller (10 amps max) with a (4) 100ah of LiFePo4 batteries. These replaced (4) 90ah gel cells originally installed in 1999. No starting battery since 1993. At anchor for 6 months during the summer, The pv array supplies a 12vdc for a Technautics holding plate air cooled fridge 24/7 ( the box has 1.5" additional insulation on the sides and bottom. We source ice cubes on shore) and via a 1-kw psw inverter we supply a 39" Vizio HD led tv (mounted to the hull in the pilot berth), Samsung bluray dvd and a computer 5.1 surround sound system. We use the entertainment system about 3 hours a day. When its showtime it's a totally an unanticipated av experience. The LiPo system was Installed in 2015. Maximum depth of discharge has yet to exceed 10% which theoretically gives them an almost infinite life. The batteries are over $400 each but weigh only 28 pounds each. The stern came up 2 inches when we got the lead out. We anchor at latitude 38N. The ability to angle these small pv panels individually I believe makes a big difference.
FWIW, we have had Coastie for almost 40 years and the single most important feature is the ability to turn the main salon into a snuggle pit!
SUPER BLACK 40w 40 Watts Mono Solar Panel + Free $10 Mount - 12v Battery Global
Now it's time to haul out at KKMI and then head up river to Steam Boat Slough.


 
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