The seacock under my sink has been progressively more difficult to operate. My boat is a 1981 Morgan 382 number 259. This is a flanged installation, but the inside base of the installation is fiberglassed over, almost up to the valve handle,including the nuts securing the flange. So, I don't know if this is a flanged seacock, or a flanged seacock adapter with a non flanged seacock. All the seacocks on the boat are similarly installed. Anyone have any experience with similar installations, and know if this is really a 2 part installation in which I can hopefully simply unscrew the seacock and replace it, or if this is a flanged seacock installation and I have to chip away the fiberglass covering the flange and nuts and remove the whole assembly.
Seacock replacement
- Thread starter bwilliams
- Start date
svpilgrim
Jeff Lovett
Is the vessel in currently in the water or on the hard?
Are you referring to the galley or head sink drain?
Can you post an image of the assembly?
All the original thru-hull fittings on Pilgirm, 1979 M382 #115, were simply recessed bronze thru-hulls with a bronze flange nut set against 1/2" plywood on the interior. The assembly was bedded with 5200 or similar. The original valves were all gate valves threaded onto the upper portion of the thru-hull. A previous owner had replaced a couple of the gate valves with brass ball valves.
The galley sink thru-hull was similar. Below is am image of all the thru-hulls and valves we pulled out of Pilgrim.
We replaced everything with new Marelon thru-hulls and seacocks mounted on proper fiberglass pads. [
Unless Morgan vastly altered their construction techniques between '79 & '81 or a previous owner replaced your thru-hull / valve. I would be very surprised if you have a flanged seacock under all that fiberglass / bedding.
In the process of removing the valve you are very likely to compromise the bedding / seal on the thru-hull. I work as a marine contractor and anytime removing a seacock or valve requires significant effort or in some cases extreme measures we also remove, clean, and re-bed the thru-hull. This is extra work but it is the only way to be certain that the effort to remove the seacock / valve did not cause the thru-hull to leak.
If you are careful with the threads when removing the thru-hull, then it is very likely that you will be able to re-use it if you so choose. The original Morgan thru-hulls on Pilgrim appeared to be good quality bronze fittings. If you chose to re-use the fitting, then purchase an appropriately sized bronze seacock.
Doing this job will likely require you to replace the original plywood mounting pad. All of Pilgrim's were in very poor condition and a couple of them were damp from water intrusion.
The best material I have found for fabricating seacock pads is structural fiberglass re-enforced plastic (FRP). This material is available online in various thickness and sizes from McMaster-Carr. Here is a link to the website - McMaster-Carr FRP. The pads should be between 1/2 & 3/4" thick.
Below is an image of FRP Pads and a new seacock in Pilgrim
Hope this information is helpful.
Jeff
Are you referring to the galley or head sink drain?
Can you post an image of the assembly?
All the original thru-hull fittings on Pilgirm, 1979 M382 #115, were simply recessed bronze thru-hulls with a bronze flange nut set against 1/2" plywood on the interior. The assembly was bedded with 5200 or similar. The original valves were all gate valves threaded onto the upper portion of the thru-hull. A previous owner had replaced a couple of the gate valves with brass ball valves.
The galley sink thru-hull was similar. Below is am image of all the thru-hulls and valves we pulled out of Pilgrim.
We replaced everything with new Marelon thru-hulls and seacocks mounted on proper fiberglass pads. [
Unless Morgan vastly altered their construction techniques between '79 & '81 or a previous owner replaced your thru-hull / valve. I would be very surprised if you have a flanged seacock under all that fiberglass / bedding.
In the process of removing the valve you are very likely to compromise the bedding / seal on the thru-hull. I work as a marine contractor and anytime removing a seacock or valve requires significant effort or in some cases extreme measures we also remove, clean, and re-bed the thru-hull. This is extra work but it is the only way to be certain that the effort to remove the seacock / valve did not cause the thru-hull to leak.
If you are careful with the threads when removing the thru-hull, then it is very likely that you will be able to re-use it if you so choose. The original Morgan thru-hulls on Pilgrim appeared to be good quality bronze fittings. If you chose to re-use the fitting, then purchase an appropriately sized bronze seacock.
Doing this job will likely require you to replace the original plywood mounting pad. All of Pilgrim's were in very poor condition and a couple of them were damp from water intrusion.
The best material I have found for fabricating seacock pads is structural fiberglass re-enforced plastic (FRP). This material is available online in various thickness and sizes from McMaster-Carr. Here is a link to the website - McMaster-Carr FRP. The pads should be between 1/2 & 3/4" thick.
Below is an image of FRP Pads and a new seacock in Pilgrim
Hope this information is helpful.
Jeff
Last edited:
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
Bil, it sounds as if a previous owner messed you up, my suggestion, with boat on the hard you should get a thru hull wrench, a special device to grab the ears inside the pipe. Unscrew the thru hull pipe. Now you have the problem oc a sea cock gassed to the hull. Perhaps with a,powerful multi tool, you can cut through the glass right next to the inner surface of the hull. Then you can grind of the excess glass and install a proper backing plate and a new thru hull and seacock. See compass marine web site to see two good methods. If you cannot easily remove the gassed in sea cock, you will want to go to a good shipright for advice. They may have to cut the glassed in seaacock out with a large hole saw and then re glass that part of the hull. Finally, more bad news, if other sea cocks are similarly installed, they should come out. This is dangerous. If a sea cock or thru hull fails, you will have to plug it and will not be able to easily replace it without again cutting into the boat. The prior owner did you no favor and your surveyor should be shot. Or sued. Terry Thatcher.
datswite
Ken Ferrari
I have the same setup as Bill... 1981, Hull #257. Luckily mine all function and appear to be in good condition. However, I'm also curious if others have replaced them and what they look like under the mound of fiberglass. Given how they are installed, I certainly hope that the valve can be unscrewed and replaced. Otherwise, it's a pretty stupid installation!
svpilgrim
Jeff Lovett
If you are able to remove the thru-hull from the exterior via a thru-hull step wrench, then I'll bet you will be able to remove the interior assembly using a hammer and chisel. My guess is Morgan laid up the interior work on top of the gel coat / paint and not bare fiberglass. By carefully using the chisel along the seam between the hull and the assembly it may be possible to remove the interior as an intact unit.
I realize that your dealing with a larger mass inside the vessel but the concept is the same.
Since Ken's M382 is similar, then I guess that was Morgan's method of installing thru hulls at the time. I would like to see a picture of the installation. It certainly does not leave many options for servicing the fitting. With the age of the vessels pushing 35 years, I would be leery of the status of the original valves.
The body of one of Pilgrim's valves failed under only slight force when attempting to unscrew it from the thru-hull.
I realize that your dealing with a larger mass inside the vessel but the concept is the same.
Since Ken's M382 is similar, then I guess that was Morgan's method of installing thru hulls at the time. I would like to see a picture of the installation. It certainly does not leave many options for servicing the fitting. With the age of the vessels pushing 35 years, I would be leery of the status of the original valves.
The body of one of Pilgrim's valves failed under only slight force when attempting to unscrew it from the thru-hull.
datswite
Ken Ferrari
This photo is of the galley sink drain seacock. As Jeff mentioned, I believe this is an original installation. There is no visible evidence that they've been replaced. In addition, the through-hulls are installed this way on a few different hulls.
And before you ask, the hose and clamps have been replaced, and so has the rotten water heater shelf (along with the original water heater). This photo was taken right after I bought the boat.
And before you ask, the hose and clamps have been replaced, and so has the rotten water heater shelf (along with the original water heater). This photo was taken right after I bought the boat.
Ken's installation is the same as mine on these seacocks. Both of our boats are near the end of the run on building the 382's. Wonder if any of the 383/4 have this type of installation. I'm not hauling out again until later this year after I return from my annual visit to the US, Cutting the whole assembly out of the hull may the best approach, then reglassing the hole. I'm a little concerned about chipping the glass covering the nuts and flange and the effect that may have on the underlying fiberglass.
stnick
lee nicholas
Last year my 384 was hauled out and i insisted on all new marlon thru hulls as most of my ball valves were so frozen even heat would not move them. The Yard in Tarpon found there was just not enough space to remove them. ! i told the get a hole saw and cut thru the hull, than re glass and than drill another hole and install the new marlon thru hulls. I worked 500 each but the new thru hull turn off slick. They increased the hull thickness at the drill site by 3/4 of a inch with winch pads.. all glass and resin I watched all the work... there were 5 replaced. Marlon is the way to go thru hull and ball valve.
svpilgrim
Jeff Lovett
Bill do your thru hull fittings look like Ken's?
Ken the mound around the galley thru-hull looks much larger than the ones in the head. Is this true or just the photo perspective?
Lee. Sounds like your method of replacement was thorough. I too am a proponent of marelon thru-hulls and seacocks. Did your original thru-hulls look like Ken's? If your original install was similar how did the yard remove the material inside the hull? Attacking the mound of material in the hull with a grinder seems the obvious choice, but that would make quite a bit of dust and mess inside the boat.
Steve. Your thru-hull fittings have marelon valves. Your system is ABYC compliant, but they are not seacocks. Seacocks have flange bases that are mechanically fastened (screws or bolts) to a pad or the hull.
Ken the mound around the galley thru-hull looks much larger than the ones in the head. Is this true or just the photo perspective?
Lee. Sounds like your method of replacement was thorough. I too am a proponent of marelon thru-hulls and seacocks. Did your original thru-hulls look like Ken's? If your original install was similar how did the yard remove the material inside the hull? Attacking the mound of material in the hull with a grinder seems the obvious choice, but that would make quite a bit of dust and mess inside the boat.
Steve. Your thru-hull fittings have marelon valves. Your system is ABYC compliant, but they are not seacocks. Seacocks have flange bases that are mechanically fastened (screws or bolts) to a pad or the hull.
datswite
Ken Ferrari
Jeff - Yes, the mound under the galley is much larger than the ones in the head, but the valves are twice the size. I've considered replacing my through-hulls and valves, but the job looks like a royal pain and messy. Besides, all of my valves operate very smoothly and don't show any signs of degradation. They're a little green, but when I scratch them with a screwdriver, they're still golden (no pink - indicative of zinc loss).
stnick
lee nicholas
Yes the yard tried and tried to remove the old ones with a saws all from inside.. it would not work. So the 2 1/2 inch hole saw on a large drill from outside right thu the hull and sea cock. yes there was dust !I used a 4 gallon pest sprayer to spray water to clean and keep down the dust. There is nothing nice and neat about a boat yard. ! We did what we had to do to remove them.
I watched the guy build back up the hole 2 1/2 circles in a pile of fiberglass. wet the space apply a piece wet do a piece etc. may 15 or so deep than the winch pad and a couple of layers over that .
The marlon thru hull fittings with marlon ball valves on top work just fine.. a lot safer now..I replaced all the 1 1/4 ball valves and thru hulls.
sink, head, engine, new intake for the AC and a grass shield and new thru hull in the little access door next to the nav station for the macerator.
My macerator has a key to start . The capt wears the key . So no mistake can be made. No chains on valves etc..
I watched the guy build back up the hole 2 1/2 circles in a pile of fiberglass. wet the space apply a piece wet do a piece etc. may 15 or so deep than the winch pad and a couple of layers over that .
The marlon thru hull fittings with marlon ball valves on top work just fine.. a lot safer now..I replaced all the 1 1/4 ball valves and thru hulls.
sink, head, engine, new intake for the AC and a grass shield and new thru hull in the little access door next to the nav station for the macerator.
My macerator has a key to start . The capt wears the key . So no mistake can be made. No chains on valves etc..