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Rudder Bushings

williwaw

williwaw

Tom Kluberton
I'm perplexed. Last time I had Williwaw out of the water I noticed deterioration on a plastic bushing tin the vicinity of the gudgeon. Was running against the clock to move through-hulls for the holding tank move and an unexpected bottom paint failure on one side of the hull to do more than "make a note to self" make some new bushing(s). I did that - made a couple nice ones out of 1/8"UHMW and stashed 'em on-board.

My recollection is that the bushing was on the bottom of the gudgeon, but then leafing through a copy of the M-382 Owner's Manual the good people at Catalina had made for me I found this drawing.

It shows two such bushings (thrust washers) at the top of the gudgeon - Seems counter-intuitive, like the rudder is buoyant. . .

Anyone know the theory of the bushing(s)?

Bushings0001.jpg
 
Tom
The rudder is buoyant. It's a fiberglass shell filled with foam. I agree with you that it would seem logical to have a bushing top and bottom. I'm glad you found this drawing. It wasn't included in the pages that came with the boat. A few months ago I produced a number of bushings out of 1/4" Starboard and sent them to people on the board. I can see by your drawing that I had the outside diameter wrong. When Dana come back out of the water next month I'll inspect the size and placement. Thanks for the drawing.

Jim
 
On our boat (1984 38-4) the rudder rests on the top of the gudgeon so, bushings, if we had them, would reduce the wear.
 
Maybe I'm missing a bushing in my brain, but the drawing makes perfect sense to me.

Assuming the rudder is heavier than the water it displaces, and does not float, the rudder weight will bear on the *top* of the gudgeon, yes? Just like out of water. Thus the bushing should sit on *top* of the gudgeon, just as is shown in the drawing.

If the rudder were actually lighter than the water it displaces, then it would float, and the buoyant force would bear on the *bottom* of the gudgeon, no? Thus the bushing would need to sit *under* the gudgeon, not on top, as in the drawing.

So .... I don't see the cause of the perplexity. ....

Could be because my irrationally buoyant brain has worn right through my bushing of rationality ...

;-)

Chris
 
Chris
A number of years ago I replaced the rudder on my 382 with a new 384 rudder. Neither the old nor the new rudder had the bushings. Since the new rudder was installed I have noticed an up and down movement of about 1/4" when the boat is in wavey conditions. My conclusion is that the rudder is close to a neutral buoyancy and is effected by the sea state. That being the case, I would think that a bushing both on the top and bottom of the gudgeon would be the way to go. This winter I'll look at making the proper size bushings and devise a way to install them without removing the rudder.

Jim
 
Well, I have a couple nice bushings made up and soon as I get into some clear water I'll dive down and see if I can install 'em (probably one on top and one on bottom)

Chris, looking again at the drawing you are correct. I must've been looking at the drawing cross-eyed & backwards - but the buoyancy question did come to mind and Jim's observation about the rudder "floating" is interesting

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tom
 
Hi Jim,

My theory (and it's not very evolved) has been to try using the 45 degree slit to allow the bushing to be pulled open and slid into place then trust it's inherent shape-holding ability to keep it there. Seeing the drawing show a 45 degree slit, I have to expect that's what Morgan Yachts expected folks to do.

When I cut out my bushings, I cut one 3 5/8" O.D. instead of the 3" they call for - so I could try drilling small hole(s) either side of the slit for a small zip-tie to hold it from squeezing out from around the post. I presume I'd have to trim enough of the bushing to allow it to fit between the rudder post and the skeg but figure UHMW could hold up without rotating 360 degrees.

I'm due to haul out in the spring to check paint and prop, if I haven't found enough clear warm water to try holding my breath long enough to shove one in by then I'll have a go while on the hard.

Will update the thread as I learn more. . . Tom
 
williwaw said:
Hi Jim,

My theory (and it's not very evolved) has been to try using the 45 degree slit to allow the bushing to be pulled open and slid into place then trust it's inherent shape-holding ability to keep it there. Seeing the drawing show a 45 degree slit, I have to expect that's what Morgan Yachts expected folks to do.

When I cut out my bushings, I cut one 3 5/8" O.D. instead of the 3" they call for - so I could try drilling small hole(s) either side of the slit for a small zip-tie to hold it from squeezing out from around the post. I presume I'd have to trim enough of the bushing to allow it to fit between the rudder post and the skeg but figure UHMW could hold up without rotating 360 degrees.

I'm due to haul out in the spring to check paint and prop, if I haven't found enough clear warm water to try holding my breath long enough to shove one in by then I'll have a go while on the hard.

Will update the thread as I learn more. . . Tom
Click to expand...

The washer on mine (I think original) was 4". I don't think the diameter is critical. Getting it off and on required twisting it the entire length of the exposed rudder shaft. (several inches). If you are able to get one in without removing the rudder, then it is much softer than what I have. You could try it with a piece of 2" pipe.
 
Tom
Let me know if it works without removing the rudder. The ones that I made are 1/4" thick and I doubt they will go on with the rudder in place. May have to go to a thinner material. I like the idea of a tie
 
It was roughly 1/4" I reused the one that was there, as after I cleaned it it seemed to still be in good shape. It originally seemed like some sort of fiber, but that was just years of crud. After cleaning I found it was hard plastic.
 
Warren
With the rudder removed, as in your photo, I can see that getting a 1/4" thick bushing on should not be a problem. The trick would be to get one on without the major job of dropping the rudder. At the moment I have no other reason to drop the rudder except for the bushing which was never installed on the boat.

Jim
 
Tom & Warren
I've an idea that I feel might work. The attached drawing show a bushing that may snap into place with the rudder in place. What do you think?

Jim
 

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    16-054 Dana-TBs & Espar 160210-5.jpg
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And the wedge is left out? I think it would fail. Considering the weight of the rudder and that the washer turns, at some point that missing wedge is going the be over the gudgeon where the load is. Perhaps two washers like that, but 1/8" thick. Rotated 180 degrees apart. 5200 them together, and glue the wedges in place as well. Honestly, if there has never been a washer there, and there isn't any damage after 30 years, I wouldn't worry about it.

Another idea. Removing the rudder is a lot of work. but you could support the rudder and remove just the Gudgeon fairly easy. Hell, that might even be possible with the boat in the water, but not by just holding your breath. But on the hard, removing the Gudgeon, replacing the washer, and reinstalling the Gudgeon is probably only an hour job.
 
I made two 1/8" thick Bushings and hope that with the 45 degree slit they'll be supple enough to twist one under and one above - Have some spare material
(bought a square foot) and it's fairly simple to sandwich the 1/8 UHMW between a couple pieces of plywood and make the cuts with cup drills. Glad to share the material if someone wants to try. - Tom
 
Warren
I feel you are right about the wedge. Maybe if small holes are drilled in the outer edges of the wedge and in the outer edges of the main body, then tie wired with SS wire, it might hold. Removing the gudgeon is a chore because it is faired into the skeg with fiberglass. That would all have to be redone including the barrier coats and bottom paint. That's a job I don't look forward to.

Tom
Where did you purchase the UHMW? If my Starboard bushings don't work, I'd like to try the thinner stuff.

Jim
 
Bert
A thickness of 1/16" sounds too thin. I know I have a bit more than 1/4" off play with no bushings installed.

Jim
 
Tom Kluberton, thanks for the excellent original drawing - I didn't ave one.

Jim Cleary, thanks for the reproduction thrust washers.

I plan to install reproduction thrust washers by removing the gudgeon with the rudder supported and twisting the slitted washer open.
 
Im ordering some UHMW from McMaster-Carr and I'll cut the washers .Thank you Tom for bringing it to my attention . I'll add the rudder washers on next haul out
 
Sorry, I've been lost in Perkins 4.108 mania for the past week. In the process of making my way to the dripping injector pump I found some dodgy rubber hoses and a corroded 1" hard-line in the cooling system and haven't been thinking of much else since. Its been tricky to find parts for an old 4.108 with the holding tank across the front.

That said, you guessed right - I'm pretty certain I got my UMHW from McMaster-Carr.
 
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