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Questions from a prospective Morgan 38 owner...

bobfnbw

bobfnbw

Member
Ahoy Morgan 38 owners. My name is Bob, and I am a soon to be retired person looking for a new boat. I have had 3 with my last one, a Endeavour 40CC sunk at the marina during a refit... ouch. Had to divest myself of that one. Don't have the time to get another till I retire in May 2020. Wife will only be able to cruise with me on the summer breaks for 4 additional years.. bummer. In the mean time, I am looking for my next sailboat. Which brings me to this forum. Why a Morgan 38? When I used to live in West Palm Beach Florida, I bought a Vanguard 470 from a drunk who ran a small sailing rental. He had a woman that worked for him teaching sailing classes. She and her husband were from Australia and had.... you guessed it... a Morgan 38. I was only onboard once, and to be honest always thought it was not my kind of boat. To small, to basic.. but still I was impressed that they had sailed it half way around the world and were just building up the cruising kitty to finish. They too were retired. Since my budget will not allow me to get exactly what I want, which btw would be something like a Brewer 44, or Trinitlla 44A, or even larger, I started looking at what would be a good price point for my budget, which I estimate is around 40K for the boat and a 20K refit, or so. And I remembered Morgans. So I am introducing my self to you all, with the possibility that in a few years I will also have a Morgan 38 and be asking more questions, as well as contributing to the knowledge base that these type of boards are so important for.
I have a few questions.... and will post them in a later post. Just wanted to say Hi.
Any Morgan owners in the Corpus Christi Texas area ?
Oh, btw, my intention is to cruise around the world... lol. Actually I want to visit far off places that can be reached by cruising under sail. Not just warm places like the Caribbean, or Panama, but the Indian Ocean, South Atlantic, Aegean sea... Those kind of places. Eventually. I need a boat that can cross oceans singlehandedly, easy to sail, points well, reasonable tankage and storage, a comfortable cockpit, works with a wind vane. Sleeps 2 comfortable at anchor and at sea. Modest headroom. Good air flow at sea. Those kind of things. It seems to me that a Morgan 382 or 383 can meet those needs. Thanks for reading my lengthy post.
Bob
 
Hey Bob, we just moved our Morgan 384 to Corpus Christi marina, slip C7. We live in San Antonio, but get down there most weekends...

Jason
 
Jason would love to come take a look at her one weekend. I work every other w/e. Helene, thanks for that link. I have been slowly going over the Morgan 38 web site, trying to gleam some knowledge on the boats. Then I got on SV Pilgrims site on his redo of his Morgan 38. I am still on it. Learning a lot !
So my first question is....
Whats a torpedo tube, and whats it doing on a sailboat ?
 
"torpedo tube" is our name for a cockpit drain system. There is a 4" tube that runs transversely across the boat just above the waterline near the stern under the cockpit. The drains from side deck scuppers and cockpit are routed to the transverse tube. This arrangement allows water to drain freely on either tack, regardless of heel. Sometimes we wish it contained weaponry.
 
Bob

The "torpedo tube" as Alan described is an interesting conversation starter. From the right angle, down close to the water, you can see right through the boat. Over the years we have had many people dinghy up to the boat to ask, "What is that hole in your boat". I can't count the number of great discussions we've had and the nice people we've met because of it.

Jim
 
Interesting. Never saw one of those on any boat I have been on. I would think it would make for a dirty hull? What about when heeled over, any water get pushed back into the cockpit? Another question... Where are the fuel tank/tanks located and the water tank/tanks. In my Endeavour 40, right after I purchased it, I knew I had a fuel leak, even though the surveyor did not see it, the 75 gallon fuel tank was in the deep bilge under the engine and was aluminum. The first job was to pull it out, and I did, buy myself I am proud to say. Some endeavour owners cut holes in the sides of the keel to remove it, but I was able to pull it after taking a few other things out first. But that was one very dificult job, and I would not necessarily want to repeat that again if I could help it.
Thanks Jim and paragon on the torpedo tube description. For some reason I thought they ran fore and aft.
 
Bob

The fuel tank is 40 Gallons under the cabin floor on the centerline. It's made of fiberglass so there are no problems with a leaking tank. I don't remember anyone having an issue with a fuel leak. The water tank/s are under the stbd main cabin bunk and another under the port settee bunk. The port tank was an option so not all boats have it. With the two tanks the capacity is 80-90 gallons. Some boats have a V-bunk water tank. Those may be after market. The holding tank is deep in the bilge aft of the lead keel and under the bilge sump. There are issues with the tank leaking due to improper blocking of the boat when on land. Many owners have relocated the tank and rebuilt the waste system. The tank in the bilge holds between 15 & 18 gallons.

The floor drains in the cockpit that feed into the "torpedo tube" have a rubber flap that acts as a check valve keeping most of the ocean from backing up into the cockpit. If those rubber flaps get old they don't do so good a job and need to be replaced.

The boats were designed by Ted Brewer to be solid cruising boats. While those of us here on this board are rather bias towards our boats, I don't think you will find a stronger capable boat for the money they are selling for.

Jim
 
Welcome aboard Bob,
I have read that some owners have had water from the cockpit drains, I however have sailed in some rough weather and never run into the issue. There is still lead ingots in my bow compartment for balance and this might be my reason for dry feet. Seems the weight was added for those who do not carry a lot of anchor chain, I have both. I am 4 years in to our 382 and could not be happier, not an old salt yet so we will see how it goes once I am on the coast and logging more miles. One reason for my choice is all I read on this site.

Dave
 
Good info. Thanks. While I have never had one, I have decided that my next boat 'might'.. have a composting toilet in it. That would eliminate the holding tank issue on the Morgan 38. Total water capacity is not to big of a issue as I would put in a water maker. Fuel capacity is though. 40 gallons of diesel doesn't seem like enough for a ocean cruising boat. And while jerry cans on deck is a option, I would still like a bit more.
Is there any where other than under the vberth that you could add additional diesel tankage on the morgan ? Also, could you put in a 6 KW diesel generator in the port lazarette ?
Really liking the rebuild that Jeff Lovett is doing on his boat. A lot of neat stuff like rebuilding the fridge by going thru the cockpit lazarette.
Dave I know what you mean. Having a active owners group is pretty important to me on any boat I plan on . The endeavours owners group was pretty low traffic, and my previous boat, a Nor'sea 27 was almost nonexistent.
If my budge allowed it, a kelly peterson 44 or 46 would be high on my list, and they have a good group there too. But until my wife goes full time with me I will stay smaller.
Jim how hard is it to get to the rubber flaps on the tubes to prevent water blow back?
 
Bob

I doubt there is a stock item available for the rubber flaps. It's simply finding the rubber in the right thickness (about 1/4" if I remember) and cutting it to shape to install. Not a bad job.

As you read the posts on this board, you'll find that many owners have made numerous changes to their boats. Most of those changes are positive and a few not so much. The thing is that the modifications are suited to the way the owner uses his or her boat. My suggestion, if you decide on the Morgan, is to use the boat in many different conditions before you decide on your changes. Something that I've done on my boat may not fit your cruising style. Over the years we have changed or added things that we ended up replacing or moving because they just didn't work or weren't in the right place. So get a boat, sail it hard, then make your plans.

Jim
 
Jim that is always good advice. When I purchased SV Sarah Claire, our Endeavour 40, my surveyor told me that she needed work, but sail her first. But due to the smell of diesel in the boat, I had to fix that first... one thing led to another and 1 year or so later electrolysis cased a forward galley sink thru hull to fail, sinking her at her slip. So... we never sailed her really. Shame. Probably would do the same again though as I could not trust it with a leaking diesel tank.
I plan on cruising north the first year up to Maine or further until my wife would have to go back to work for the fall semester (2020) so that would be a good shake down cruise. If a Morgan was in the cards for us (and its looking more and more like it is ) I anticipate removing the quarter berth for storage and watermaker, genset somewhere (port cockpit locker ?) redoing the fridge and rewiring... assuming that is not already done. New ports as well cause I hate plastic ports. And a wind pilot of some kind.
 
Jim, I am interested in the flappers for the cockpit drains. I don't have them and just made new screens for mine. The only way I imagine them would be a rectangle piece of rubber the size of the drain cover,than like a hand pump a letter C should be cut into the material so it would be hinged on one side. The size of the letter C would dictate where on the cover the drain holes would be. Rick
 
Rick

I think a photo of the cockpit drain will be the best thing. Tomorrow when I'm out at the boat I'll snap a picture. I had done the job many years ago and can't remember the details.

Bob

One thought about adding lots of systems and gear. The Morgans have a lot of usable storage lockers and space. Much more then more modern designs. When deciding on where to locate a new toy, think hard about what space will be given up. On a friends new and very expensive boat, almost every locker contained some equipment, piping, wiring for some system. There was very little usable storage space.

Jim
 
moltzvt said:
Welcome aboard Bob,
I have read that some owners have had water from the cockpit drains, I however have sailed in some rough weather and never run into the issue. There is still lead ingots in my bow compartment for balance and this might be my reason for dry feet. Seems the weight was added for those who do not carry a lot of anchor chain, I have both. I am 4 years in to our 382 and could not be happier, not an old salt yet so we will see how it goes once I am on the coast and logging more miles. One reason for my choice is all I read on this site.

Dave
Click to expand...
Dave , I notice you fly a spinikker ! On my 384 the harkin Roller furler top swivel goes all the way to the top . I am thinking i need some sort of top plate on the mast to clear that top swivel . Looking at a Asymtrical spinnaker , and im thinking the sock will get wound around that top swival ?
Any advice is welcome . Lee Nicholas Tarpon Springs fl M 384 1982 M #32
 
Jim very true. Only so much space on these boats. I figure most of any thing I would add would be in the quarter berth and cockpit locker space. I don't believe in quarter berths unless you have kids and mine are grown now. Of course then you have to worry about weight distribution and balance... Since it will be a cruising liveaboard storage is very important. I see that there are some places on the boat that can be accessed for additional storage. I would look into that.
I was looking at the Warrior 38's today. The designer managed to put 3 staterooms and 2 heads in that boat with the same length and only 1 foot more beam and 1K more lbs.. Pretty impressive. A guy named Mads is rebuilding one on youtube under the name sail life. Pretty cool boat, but don't think they are built as well as the morgan, and who wants to sleep 6 on a 38 footer...

So another question about Morgans, what are the dimensions of the vberth? The foot area seems tight. How long is it? How hard to get in and out of ? Some I noticed on yachtworld have a bulkhead that comes out on the starboard side that seems to block access to getting in and out. I have read on these forums that some use the double in the salon but I would not want to do that... reminds me of our old NorSea 27 where you had to make the salon into a berth every night. It got old fast.
Thanks,
Bob
 
The port cushoin on the other side of the Sink is the Birth filler cushion goes next to the table. I went to my local foam dealer and had 5 inch memory foam put in those 2 cushoins the filler and long birth cushion . Very comfortable.
I had to mount a larger lip for that filler to sit on as it keep falling down .I under mounted a 5 inch piece of teak a inch deep and thru bolted it thru the Edge of the locker frame. We use the V birth for storage.
 
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stnick said:
Dave , I notice you fly a spinikker ! On my 384 the harkin Roller furler top swivel goes all the way to the top . I am thinking i need some sort of top plate on the mast to clear that top swivel . Looking at a Asymtrical spinnaker , and im thinking the sock will get wound around that top swival ?
Any advice is welcome . Lee Nicholas Tarpon Springs fl M 384 1982 M #32
Click to expand...
Lee, We could start a new thread and maybe should. I am not the most experienced to address this question but here is my experience. I use a separate halyard to pull up my spinnaker and have not had an issue with a tangle except once. That one time sailing downwind I set a 150 jib on the starboard and the spinnaker to port with no main, went well until the wind picked up. I attempted to furl the jib and it tangled with the sock as you mention. It was quite a scene as I was running out of space headed ashore. Fortunately I got it unsnarled in time and will not likely fly both together again. I think I posted a thread on the question some time ago. Hope this helps. Dave
 
Dave & Lee, As Dave relayed you have to keep everything clear of the furling swivel gear. I drilled a hole in the mast top plate, put a SS tack shackle & a good sized articulated block from that. I ran an external halyard line through the block. A small messenger line tied to the lifeline replaced the halyard & kept the clanking down when not in use. Added extra cleats on the mast. A carabiner attached to the lifeline secured the sock snuffing line.
It all worked, but as you guys know a spin adds 10% more speed & 100% more excitement!
 
First of ahttp://www.windtraveler.net/2017/03/asante-is-for-sale-blue-water-brewer-44.html

If you decide you are still interested in a Brewer 44, some friends of mine in the BVIs have a good one for sale. I crewed on it from Georgetown, Exuma to Tortola. Its a long story, but shortly after our passage which included their 1 year old on board, she became pregnant with twins. They have recently purchased a Tanya 40 something which has 3 staterooms to accommodate their family.

With that said we purchased a 382 and had our first season with it last years after 17 years in an Alberg 30. We are slowly making some modifications, but it is a great boat. I delivered it from Detroit to northern Lake Michigan and got caught in some nasty winds and she performed extremely well. The only living thing that had a problem was the dog got seasick.
 
Bob

The Morgans were advertised as having bunk space for eight people. I've always considered that applied to eight naked people with no food. We have been sailing ours for 30 years now and have always found it very comfortable sleeping for two. Four people for a short weekend and hope the weather is nice. We sleep in the V-bunk. Our boat had an option of under and over bunks in the V-bunk. That was great for when our two sons sailed with us. When they no longer cruised with us we converted to a single bunk at the level of the higher of the two bunks. That gave us more bunk area but less headroom. I am 5'-8" and my wife is 5'-1", and we are very comfortable in that bunk. The higher bunk also means we have to climb up to get in and down to get out. A bit of a chore for that 3am head call. I do use the quarterberth when I am singlehanding and want easy access to the cockpit.

Jim
 
Jim good to know. I am 6'1" and 230 and wife is 5'5"... we sleep on a queen sized bed at home and while there is enough room, sometimes it seems a bit small... I'm sure most married guys will under stand that... lol.
The foot space on the vberth looks quite tight.

North Channel. I have seen the windtraveler site. Great looking boat. One that after my wife goes cruising full time we might look into, or something like that. But in the beginning, a Morgan 38 will be just fine. We do have a lot of friends that might want to join us at various port of calls, and the Morgan will seem tight. We will see. What modifications are you making to the 382?
 
Hi Bob,
You are correct, the foot space in the V-birth is very tight. I'm 5'-9" and my fiancé is 5'-4" and we find the space too tigh and sleep in the salon.
 
Thanks Michael. From pictures I see the same. Never been a fan of a vberth.
Any one have impressions/opinions of the Catalina/Morgan 38 cc? Looks to much of a plastic boat to me, but wonder just the same. It does have a head aft which I like, and the rear berth is nice... but center cockpit boats the motion is different.
 
Also... a thought about the vberth... what about using the narrow part for your head, and feet go on the wide part ? More comfortable or less ? What is the length of the berth? Thanks guys !
 
The Salon is an excellent sleeping area, especially under sail. The person asleep can see the cockpit and is ready to respond if needed. The vee berth is like climbing into a coffin..The Morgan 38 is an excellent boat for it's size and displacement. Any owner just has to make it work for them and what they want to do and where they want to cruise.
 
As far as putting your head on the forward end of the v-berth, you can but 2 people cannot be side by side. If you're sleeping there alone don't jump up too fast because the anchor locker hangs over you. I sleep in the v-berth when I'm on the boat alone. I put my head on the aft bulkhead on the port side. I find it very comfortable. When my wife is with me we sleep on the port settee with the extender in place.
 
So the more I look at this the more I like the idea of redoing the interior by taking away the Head and putting in a pullman berth on the port side extending back to where the cabin trunk meets the deck, sealing off that part of the vberth giving you a large sail storage accessed via the deck hatch. I would remove the nav station and put a bulkhead there, enclosing a composting head. The quarterberth would be accessed from the cockpit holding the batteries, inverter, watermaker etc. A fuel tank under part of the pullman berth. This would eliminate several thru hulls, many feet of hose, the holding tank, and give a large pullman berth while still being able to use the main salon for occasional guests and for a good sea berth. A hatch above the pullman for ventilation. This would be a big project, a year or so I would expect.... so what kind of reaction I wonder would you all have about that ? Yes I know that I would lose the shower, but I would have a deck shower, as well as one in the new head making it a wet head... the other advantages include more storage on the starboard side of the vberth, additional storage under the pullman... and the quarterberth area as well... (hate quarterberths for sleeping.
So what engine access is used in the quarterberth? What about the port deck locker... what engine access is there ?
 
Hey Ken thanks ! I saw that. Always liked the pullman berths on boats I have seen. The Hans Christian 31, Macintosh 47 to name 2... on that Morgan not sure what he did with the head.... anyone know ?
 
Just a thought. With a pullman berth, doesn't one person have to climb over the other to get out?

Jim
 
Bob, you can add 23 gallons of fuel under the aft end of the quarter berth--I did, with an aluminum tank shaped to the hull. Raised the aft end of the berth by 1 3/4 inches. But that gives you only 63 gallons--at 5 knots, that gives me 58 gallons ( 5 gal reserve) and about .55 gal/hour. 500 mile range.
I would discourage tearing out bulkheads to move the head. They are structural and integral to the design and strength of the boat. I have sailed around the Pacific, but would not take the Morgan into high latitudes--e.g, the roaring 40s, or go around Cape Horn with her. She is well, but lightly, built.
 
Terry I would not remove bulkheads but add far as I can tell without owning one. I would leave the bulkhead that shares the salon with the head, cutting out a portion of the forward head bulkhead that butts up against the v berth, for the other end of the pullman, and have stiffeners under the mattress as well, but adding a thick bulkhead just forward of the cabin where it meets the deck in the v berth. I would tab in a 1.5" bulkhead there, using the deck hatch for access so the v berth is cut in two. Aft of that bulkhead ( which would also give a good place to place a solent stay chain plate ) would be the pullman to port and additional storage to starboard. Maybe a seat for dressing.
Quarter berth would go away and battery bank along the engine access bulkhead. fuel maybe on the other side ? Also the inverter/charger and solar charger. Access from cockpit.(Would require cutting in a hatch on the seat ) Genset on port deck locker.
At least 500 miles under power would be my wish with a reserve. Jerry cans on deck as well, but could not rely on that.

I think this would stiffen the forward end of the boat quite a bit. Add a lot of storage without taking away much ( inside shower that is not important to me).

Jim, yes that is the one disadvantage of a pullman berth. As we all know most boats are a study in compromise in one way or another... but for a smaller boat its a good compromise. Moves the sleepers aft a bit so better sleep in a seaway. You could add a hatch above for ventilation as well as a dorade. Sleeping on the salon berth to port is the same pretty much the same.
These are just ideas in my head and on paper for now. It would be several years before I can see on way or another if its what would be best or not... I would cruise it first for a 4-6 months first before.
Terry, many boats have rounded the horn that shouldn't have and done well.. as long as the boat is sailed well with a experienced captain/crew, and is a dry boat, I don't see why the morgan can't do it either. From looking at other morgan builds, it seems that the tabbing is not done well, but is correctable, and with new ports, seals on the hatches etc should be ok. Depending on the weather window of course. They take catamarans across the southern oceans and they are built a lot lighter than the Charlie Morgan is ! Of course even a well built boat can founder in the right conditions, and a lightly built boat in offshore conditions. The Norsea 27 (my first boat ) has been sailed around the world, but I would never do it... to small.

58 gal at .55 gph @ 6 knots should give you 630 miles. not to bad. With 5 gal reserve and 20 gal on the rail, 83 gal should give 900 miles @ 6 knots. That's acceptable. Of course no leeway for generator use if you have one.
 
jimcleary said:
Rick

I think a photo of the cockpit drain will be the best thing. Tomorrow when I'm out at the boat I'll snap a picture. I had done the job many years ago and can't remember the details.

Bob

One thought about adding lots of systems and gear. The Morgans have a lot of usable storage lockers and space. Much more then more modern designs. When deciding on where to locate a new toy, think hard about what space will be given up. On a friends new and very expensive boat, almost every locker contained some equipment, piping, wiring for some system. There was very little usable storage space.

Jim
Click to expand...
Jim did you ever get a chance to take the photo of your cockpit drains ?
One difference between a coastal cruiser and a offshore cruiser imo is the ability to self drain the cockpit rapidly. Any idea how fast it would take to drain a fully pooped cockpit ? Would the drains be suficent or would additional drains be necessary? It looks like there are only 2 drains in the cockpit... its this correct ?
 
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