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Port replacement

John,

I can ship you all but two 4X14 port lights and two of the larger portlights which were over the galley and nav. station. Please email me so we can arrange for shipping; t.frankum@comcast.net.

Carter,

I jope to have the teak finsihed by the weekend if I am lucky and I would be gald to show you the moat.

Tom
 
To All,

It is late in the evening and my typing is slipping a little. :)

jope is hope
gald is glad

Carter,

My boat was in good / rough shape when I purchased it; nothing that elbow grease and money want cure.

Tom
 
I have replaced five of six ports in my 383 with nfm stainless ports.

Now doing the quarter birth port, turns out to be the hard one.

The cockpit footwell wall and the quarter birth wall are not paralell. Differ by half an inch between top and bottom of the port.

The bolts will not align.

Has anyone else done this/had this issue? What did you do about it?

Regards

Bob
 
You must customize the interior trim ring by grinding. This is easy if you take good measurements. You can also use shims if the differences are not great. Good Luck!
 
I've been contemplating this NFM upgrade as my frames & dogs are brittle, cloudy glass etc. But one of the most annoying traits of the OEM ports are how they hold rain water. Open them up, and it's a waterfall.

Do NFM ports naturally drain water away or do they hold it against the glass like the originals?
Thanks
Dave
 
1) Thanks for the response Jim. So far, I'm thinking shims. Looks like the shims will have to be 1/2 inch at the top tapering down to zero at the bottom.

2) Dave, the drains are quite large. However, drainage performance depends on the angle at which the port is installed. If it leans back far enough it will trap water. The ones I have installed on the cabin sides do not appear to be trapping any.
 
Hi Bob:

I've got all the NFM replacement ports sitting in boxes waiting for good weather and a big enough block of time to do the installation. I will be interested in your solutions. By the way, did you use the NFM rope caulking or something else?

Dave: The NFM ports have deep drains to the outside that should carry the water away. I replaced a couple of the port "lights" from Pompanette but the hinges cracked, they don't seal well, and I'm looking forward to the better look and functionality of the NFM ports.

-Alan
 
If I may ask the recent purchasers:
Where you able to obtain a discount from the retail prices stated on the website? boat show specials or similar.

Also- I read a few negative postings from a couple (one?) buyers regarding NFM, their customer service, and quality/fit issue of a port. Any comments on your experiences?

Dave
 
We purchased our ports at the Annapolis boat show in 2007 and got a discount - don't recall how much. There was a lengthty delay in receiving the entire order (Received in January 2008) - they are manufactured in China and we had to wait on a container to arrive. During that time, I remeasured the spigot depth required for the quarter berth and revised the order - that took more time. I'd also ordered a template for installation and they had none left. I had to wait for them to build more. (Received March 2008). Unfortnately a year later, they are still in boxes in the basement. Except for the delays, customer service was good.
-Alan
 
Good question Jim!
I have had Lewmars on board since I bought the boat back in 94. The windows are all crazed and the gaskets are starting to fail.
They're good ports. The screen system sucked. The chincy plastic/pvc screens over time deteriorated and cracked. They're very un-user friendly to install. Enough negs - all in all - they performed fine and I could have replaced the "glass" with new materials.
I chose to replace the ports to SS due to quality of construction, glass window and very easy screens.
I personally just like the quality of the NFM. I too bought mine from the 08 Annapolis Boat show-they're sitting here waiting for warmer climes to start installation.
As a blue water guy, a very weak argument can be made that the windows are Ocean thickness glass - no more crazing and no hassles with what detergents touch it.

Really I think it's also an upgrade from the aluminum.
 
Tony,

Did you read this report?

http://www.bristol29.com/miami.htm

I have a problem with the old fashioned look, how far they protrude away the cabin sides, and drainage. Also, the article talks about the quality of the stainless. Another issue is how the port is held open and weight of the frame/glass. More polishing as well!

I still like the Lewmar units and the new ones are much better than the ones from the 90's. You can also order direct from Catalina. Like anything in boating, everyone has a different opinion!

Jim
 
About NFM ports

Why pick them:
1) They are not plastic.
2) There was lots of info about installing them. especially good information here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/nfm_port_lights&page=1
3) NFM had the package for a Morgan 38 (all the right sizes) so lazy me escaped all that research that would otherwise been necessary.
4) Stainless looks good on a Morgan 38

NFM customer service:
1) I got lots of help when discussing/placing the order. Several telephone conversations, all very helpful.
2) Got a good response when I sent them email asking about the quarter birth port issue. They recommend shimming the outside with starboard (hadn't considered that)
3) Shipment arrived in a timely manner. Got lucky on the router template, they had one on hand. Ordered everything they suggested: butyl, router template, bolts, drill counter sink'..) saves all that running around to the hardware store, home depot, etc.

Installation:
1) I used the butyl caulk. I also slopped lots of polysulfide on the trim ring before bolting it down. Don't ever want to have to fix a leak on one of these things. I like the butyl for filling large gaps. I think it will be good long term.
2) No on 5200. The NFM people do not recommend it. Makes sense. The fiberglass cabin sides expand and contract with temperature and hull flexing at different rates than the metal ports. The needs to be movement between the two parts. The cabin side will crack if the fiberglass and metal port are locked together with 5200.
3) Buy a new router and carbide cutting bits. Plan to wear them out on this job. The cabin sides are ' inch thick glass.
4) Tried to hire a professional for the work. He took one look at the job and never called back. I can see why. Lots of unknowns when taking things apart. He would not have been able to charge me what the work was worth.
5) Installing the first one, in the head, took two full weekends. With practice, I got it down to one day per port. A professional could probably do it in half a day. I spend a good deal of time staring at the hole wondering if I'm doing it right.

The ports look terrific. They don't leak.

Now if I can just finish off this last one'.
 
To each his own! I can say that I am very pleased with the Lewmar's. If they were not, then boat builders wouldn't use them.
 
The opinion of the Bristol 29 writer was that the QC of the NFM ports was not up to his high standards.

Can anyone with NFM ports please comment directly on his concerns, please?

Interestingly, both of the links to his preferred brand seem to have gone, or are going out of the biz.
Dave
 
In reply to Bristol 29:
1)
"The stainless was rough, not polished to the perfection that you typically see in marine stainless as a standard."

Answer: The ports they sent me were nicely polished. My personal standards may be different than his.

2)
"The edges of the spigot were almost rough enough to cut your finger on them, as if they had been trimmed by a band saw and not finished."

Answer: Not true of the ports I received.

3)
"The exterior trim rings did not follow the outside edge of the spigot closely on some ports--they use a rounded drain at the bottom and the trim ring left a wide (1/2" gap) below the rounded drain."

Answer: The trim rings on mine fit evenly all the way round. The ring and port are matched sets. They have match numbers stamped on them. The manufacturer recommends keeping the matched sets together. Possibly the set examined by Bristol 29 were not matched.

4)
"When the ports were dogged down, the angle of the levers was different on the same port. The levers pivot on an adjustment screw in a circle until they stop against a boss. Because the position of the boss is different even on the same port one lever would be parallel with the bottom edge of the port frame--which is how I would want the lever to be in the dogged position--and one would be askew at an angle. Again, in my opinion, an indication of sloppy manufacturing."

Answer: True, lever angle is not always the same. I did not notice until reading Bristol 29's piece. Not sure what it says about the care or quality of the manufacturer.

Final analysis: Go to the boat show and shop. Pick the ports that suit you.
 
That goes for any item you want to improve your boat with! Shop around, ask other boaters in your marina, try if you can, look at the company you are buying from, and check the warranty.
 
I would like to replace my aft ports which are just plexiglass lenses screwed in over the cutouts. The trouble I am having is that they are large cutouts.
(34"w x 8"h.)
Does anyone know of a manufacturer? I think these were altered by a previous owner.
This is for a 1978 M382
 
Just re-read the entire thread - several of you say you replaced the Nav and Galley ports.
I don't have ports there - only a large plexiglass covering the opening that seems original, well, in make - I replaced mine back in 99. It's already heavily crazed and is a poor seal as the screws from the outside don't seat well anymore.

So you say you got NFM's - when I talked with them, I was concerned with the camber/curve of the cabin top wall - maybe 3/8" over the length. How did your window fit due to curve?

I would love to put an opening port there!

All ears...

Great great thread - that's why this board is so incredible.

Smooth sailing

T
 
ahhhh,so mine may be original. After a while dark mildew has streaked on places between the plexi and cabin.
If I remove....and clean...or replace....what would anyone suggest I use to seal?
 
Some great info on the following site:

http://www.practical-sailor.com/sample/CS.html

I wouldn't use LifeCaulk, which is a polyurethane that forms a permanent bond. Nothing lasts forever, and at some point the sealant will decay to the point of needing replacement. Silicone would be a better choice, in my estimation. It's relatively easy to work with, easy to clean up with acetone, and comes in different colors.

The website above has a list of caulks and sealants, but one that's missing is made by Dow Chemical - the product name is 795 Silicone Building Sealant.

When I had my hatches re-conditioned and re-glazed, I had to re-install them. The man who reconditioned them (Select Plastics, based in Norwalk, CT) told me that Dow Chemical 795 is essentially the same thing as a marine sealant, except it doesn't have the word "Marine" in it, so it's a lot cheaper. a tube for a caulking gun runs about $12.

When bedding the portlights, you will want to put on a lot of the silicone sealant, then install the portlight. You should put the screws on in opposite corners, then opposite edges, and tighten to the point where the silicone is starting to be pushed out.

At this point, stop tightening the screws, go away for 24 hours, then come back and take out the screws individually and put some of the 795 on them before driving them home, nice and tight. This will ensure water doesn't get in through the screws. there should be some of the silicone sealant around each screw head.

The sealant does not need to be "strong", since the portlight won't be getting any stress placed on it, as would a cleat, for example. But it should have the ability to expand and contract through the seasons, which is why silicone beats polyurethane, in my book. The flexibility and ability to remove and replace easily make silicone preferable.
 
Matt
Great info!! Thanks. I just joined the board today and am glad I did.
If you ever get out Sausalito way....I sail practically every weekend.....so welcome aboard.
That offer is open to any readers here
Patrick
 
If you are replacing with Lexan, use Down Corning 795. I did extensive research and found this is the only product that seals through extreme conditions. It comes in different colors. I would no use any material except Lexan for these large portlights.

Jim
 
Matt is right on! This is not an easy job and it is messy! Use lots of 3M blue tape in and out and wear latex gloves.
Jim
 
Good comments - yes I meant Lexan. I will look into the Down Corning 795. Between that and the Silicone - seems the best choices.
Thanks for your knowledge on this stuff fellas.

Smooth sailing and fresh warm breezes!
Tony
SV Papeche
78 M382 #046
 
Article in March 09 Sail mag on sealing leaking Lexan skylights -
Boatlife and other polysulfide caulks shouldn't be used with Lexan because it will leach out the plasticizers in Lexan and make it more likely to crack.
Polyurethane sealants like 4200 can be affected by outgassing from Lexan which affects sealant's bonding ability.
They recommended GE Silpruf SCS2000 or Dow 795 Silicone Building Sealant for rebedding Lexan or acrylic in a metal frame - presumably the same would work for sealing to gelcoat. Both are silicone-based products.

I need to reseal my large fixed ports and I will probably replace them with lightly tinted Lexan - the originals are a little cloudy - not sure if they are Lexan (polycarbonate) or acrylic - I want the added impact resistance of Lexan. I think a light smoke tint will inprove the look and be welcome in the tropics.
-Alan
 
To All,
Can someone with NFM ports enlighten me on this please:
1. My 383 will require 4 "standard" dimensioned 4"x14" ports, correct?
2. The head requires a custom 4x14 port with a "spigot" length of how much compared to the 1 & 3/4" standard depth dimension?
3. Same question for the quarter berth depth: custom needed and what "length"?
4. Can NFM interior teak trim rings be used on all the ports w/o depths?
Thanks in advance
Dave
 
Hi Dave, From what I've seen in the archives I'm ordering 4 pieces 4x14x1.5, 1 pcs 4x14x2.0 for the head,1 pcs 4x14x2.5 for the cockpit. Some mention adding .5 to the single pieces. All in s.s. from NFM. Hope this helps.The Kanes
 
I have not done he galley port replacement yet. Mine appear simply to be screwed to the cabin side--which is not very thick. Seems like a weak way to go--but the alternative--through bolts, would be pretty ugly inside without lots of trim. How hard is it to get the old ones off without tearing up the boat? And what material is better--lexan, acrylic, polycarbonate, and why?

thanks.

TLT
 
Ihave used butyl rubber with good results for the portlights. This is the stuff they use to bed windshields. It is sorta messy and takes several days to completely tighten it down. I stays pliable and sticks great.

Jose
SV Siboney
 
I received my NFM ports today. I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised with the quality. They seem very well manufactured and a definite upgrade from the original ports installed on my boat. I'm looking forward to starting the installation!
 
Ken, just a tip I learned from my installation. There is space between the interior liner and the outer cabin house. When you put the inner and outer parts of the ports together, the screws can compress that space and bottom out.

It was suggested here that insulating foam in a can (Great Stuff) could be sprayed in the void. After it cures this would prevent the compression of the inner liner, and allow proper tightening of the two pieces.

PS. that butyl tape is terrific, but super sticky and goes everywhere unintended. Wear gloves.
Good luck, Dave
 
Thanks for the tip, Dave. I had read about the void in the head, but I didn't realize that I would have to deal with it on every port. The installation instructions for the ports suggest to only tighten the hardware hand-tight. Do the liners compress that easily?

I'm also a bit concerned about the removal of the original ports. Any thoughts/tips in that regard?

Ken
 
I have installed NFM ports to my Sabre.
I used a Rotip zip to cut the old hole larger. the old breckson plastic port came out easy with a can of "Marine Formula" the stuff that eats silicone and 5200 etc.
The space between the out side and inside cabin i filled with a bondo like paste i made from resin and micro balloons. two days later when all was hard and dry i re trimmed with my Roto zip . and set the port in for test. I used white butyl tape outside under the port lip .
I also had a thick wall from out side to inside ,So I had to go to the hardware store of some longer bolts as i remember 2 1/2 inches. just to draw the port to the ring. than i replaced them one by one when it was drawn tight.
I love them they open and never leak.
The NFW will get on the phone with you and tell you all the tricks on installation like he did with me !
A first class company in my book ... Lee/ Fla
 
Ken - Installation & removal tips ????

First don't bother trying to save the old ports, but do be careful to cut any sealant between the inside wood panel and the inner port (if you're not replacing the teak paneling). The sealant should all be on the outside but after 30 years who knows....

Second - you do have the NFM counter sink tool and port template right? I wouldn't try triming & installing w/o those.

I used a jig saw to trim. My Sears rotozip broke a bunch of bits. I'm still finding bit pieces.

Lastly, the 1/4 berth has a lot of space between the inner and outer liners. Fill that void to prevent the "spigot from extending into the cockpit. I'd also suggest "tenting" around the 1/4 berth port to contain the dust in eng. room. That one was real messy because you're cutting wood and FRP. (Perkins diesel like a little dust in their diet, I hope) Its the one port "do over" I'd like to have.

I had to cut some screws to shorten, so the tool list included: a thin metal cutting disc, angle grinder, thread die and general use: multiple goggles and eye protection, gloves, circular sanding rolls, marine caulk, acetone, rags, dust masks, jig saw, rotozip and the universal boat tool...a shop vac!

After the first one they go easier. Not fun, very dirty inside and out, but extremely satisfying when completed. NFM's look good and work well IMHO.
Good Luck with the project!
Dave
 
Thanks, Dave. Are you suggesting that there is gap between the inner cabin liner and exterior cabin sides at every port? Or, is the gap only in the head and quarterberth? Also, what do you have, a 382, 3 or 4.

Thanks again for the tips.

Thanks for the link, Geoff. I've actually seen that article before - he has some very useful tips on that page.
 
Yes there is a gap between the inner liner and the outer cabin house at all the ports. Greatest at the two you mentioned. If you fill it you avoid compressing the liners and having a screw bottom out. You can get a better seal with the butyl.

If I did this again, I'd use sprayable closed cell foam as its cheap & easy to trim.
D
 
Yes, but measure the distance and use a proper length bolt/screw and don't over tighten. Don't relay on the screws from the manufacturer. My 2 cents once again.
Jim
 
I started the job of replacing the ports last weekend. I've removed 4 of 6. They all came out very easily. I have not yet removed the head and quarterberth ports.

I was very pleased to see that there was no gap at all in the cabin sides of the four ports I removed. In fact, it's solid fiberglass - 5/8" at the thinnest! 3 of the ports are at least 3/4" thick. One of them is closer to an inch thick. My 1" flush cut router bit just barely bridged the thickness.

I suppose it's possible that the areas immediately surrounding the original ports are "beefier" than the rest of the cabin sides. But, I can say with certainty that there is not a gap to fill!

Though, I'm sure there is a gap in the other two.
 
Ken, I don't remember a gap in the quarter berth portlight, but it is thicker due to the teak, 3/4" I think.
 
The total thickness of the quarterberth on my boat is 2.45". How much of that is gap, I don't know.

Your's, with teak, is only 3/4"?
 
No, the teak/Ply was 3/4 or 1" and I do not remember a gap between it and the FG. I had no portlight in the QB.
 
I forgot, it is easy to see the thickness by measuring the thickness after opening the the access panel from the QB to the engine. Jim
 
Here is a video me routing the head opening. I think it's useful for those considering this project to see the construction of the cabin sides. That is a 1" flush-cut router bit in the video - the cabin side is about as thick. I found this to be the case on every port except for the v-berth. It was probably closer to 1/2". Maybe 5/8"

This is a 1981 Morgan 382 - Hull #257.

http://youtu.be/v2Cqd6MHBzI




19284.jpg

NFM Port
 
Thanks. Amazing. I had no idea the cabin sides were so thick--since the insides seem so thin. I guess that helps explain why they felt okay screwing rather than through bolting the large galley windows.
 
Here is a photo of my quarterberth port installation. The spigot of the NFM port was 2.5" The cabin side thickness at this location was approximately 2.45", however, the interior and exterior surfaces are not parallel.

I needed to shim the port so the trim ring and port were square - otherwise, the screws would not work. I also wanted to limit how far the spigot extended into the cockpit.

This shim worked perfectly. The port extends into the cockpit less than the original port. I used the routing template provided by NFM to pattern the template. Perfect fit.

The job is done, and I'm very pleased with the results. However, I hope to never do this job again. What a mess/pain.


19639.jpg
 
Nice work Ken. There was a lot of "give" in the quarter berth panels wasn't there? I shortened the screws to get everything to seat. The butyl took care of the rest. I like your method better.

And I agree 100%: One port, six times is enough for one lifetime. Isn't "boating" fun?

Now don't do what I did: Fill the 1/4 berth up so you never open that nice new port.
 
I can remember when i replaced my Sabre ports with new found metals ports. I just used Bondo in between the outside hull and inside liner. ! It was hard cheep and easy to sand.. Did the job.
I set the port on Butyl.. I love the look.
Such a up grade and Zero leaks..
 
Ken, I desperately need to do this. The old port has deteriorated. But I fear the job more than most on the boat. I just installed a new auxiliary fuel tank and this seems more difficult. I guess I just have to open it up and give it a go.
 
Hey, Terry. While I don't want to do the job again, I'm glad I did it. I also had a lot of reservations about the job going into it, but it was much easier than I had anticipated. It was just very messy and time consuming. I also did it in the dead of winter. I have zero regrets - and the new ports are a huge improvement on a number of fronts.

I made the mistake of removing 4 ports all at the same time. I thought that I'd finish the job the same weekend. Unfortunately, I removed 4 windows and then got slammed with a snow storm the next day. Break out the duct tape and cover the gaping holes in the boat. The weather continued to dog me for several weekends afterwards.

The quarterberth was the most time-consuming/difficult simply because I had to fabricate the shim. I ended up using pine for the shim. It seemed to sand better than oak and poplar.

I also wish that I would have purchased/fabricated a spacer for the v-berth port. The cabin side thickness on my boat was thinner in this location, so the port spigot extends further outside than the other ports. Nobody else would notice, but, it bothers me a bit.

Also, get the template from NFM and a palm router/laminate trimmer for cutting the holes.
 
Kens right. The first ones a challenge. All down hill from there. Take out or cover everything. Easier than putting a new window in an old house... Six times! Ha ha ha!
 
Terry - send me an off list email. I may have an easier way out for you.

(I can't seem to get your email address from the private reply link)
Dave
 
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