How did you do? And against what boats? What were their ratings?Here in NE Florida, I ran a single hand race last year, with a base of 144.
Chris
Hey...that's pretty good...I bet it was fun too. Our courses are typically 12-16 miles with the 3 legs to wind, reach run.
Yes that was years ago...John English...do you have any links or more info on Lou or his boat?Yup, we will never win in a tacking duel. However, a number of years ago a Hawaii based M382 won its division in the Pacific cup. The boat was "Ghost" and Lou Ichler was the owner. They do fave a reach.
What would you like to know?Looking forward to launching our new for us 382 hull 49 in the next couple of weeks after it has been on the hard for about 7 years. I hope to occasionally race it in cruising class - Wednesday night and local club racing. I see the PHRF rating of base 144 will be 165 after applicable adjustments. By comparison I used to race my 1989 Pearson 39 which had a base rating of 120 adjusted to 147 for cruising class. Displacement on that was 17,500, beam of 12'5" and waterline of 31'3" so some similarities. She also had a long keel and centerboard with a pretty tall mast so she caught light air surprisingly well but was also tender. We were pretty competitive with even old dacron cruising sails but couldn't point like the deep keel boats. Long legs and spirited winds were when she did her best. After having spent some time now under the Morgan it seems there are some similarities of the underbody of these boats. I am anxious to see how she will sail.
(PS - really enjoying all the information on this site!)
Who did your ratings for they race?It was so much fun. Wind was good. I can't wait to it again. I am wanting to do an offshore race sometime down here, just for fun mainly. We'll see if that happens.
It took us many years to get the Pearson going right and we were still learning every race. I expect it will be the same with the Morgan. I didn't get it for racing, but figure it will be fun to mess it up with some older Catalina 34 to 38's and some other other folks in the fleet we would be racing against. As long as we don't embarrass ourselves it should be lots of fun!What would you like to know?
Our Polars show beating in 8 knots true wind you can potentially reach 5 knots of boat speed with a 130% headsail.
In 20 knots 6.2 knots of boat speed beating.
With a modified full keel and skag hung rudder with a v shaped hull that's sits down in the water there is a lot of drag. But on a windy rough day you can compete with many boats. The Pearson is fast. Tartans, C & C's older Hunters, Beneteaus, Catalinas, Sabres are all faster in light air and have better acceleration. Tacking is costly. Spend your tacks wisely! I have scoured the Internet looking for similar venues and conditions as we have on Lake Champlain. I think unless you are going straight on a reach you will be hard pressed to reach the stated rating of a base of 138-144. Our adjusted rating is 150. 190 would be more accurate. I don't know who the shmuck was that gave it that rating. Nonetheless, we enjoy racing it most of the time. Good starts, judicious steering, careful trim and easing...have fun! If you are in another fleet similar to your boat it will be fun. If you race against J boats, And the boats mentioned above in JAM class it will be tough against good sailors.
Alan Shedd has a lot of experience racing the Morgan. He does race a Santana now instead.
It's the 5'4" draft. I think it was written up as being 5' but in reality when measuring in fresh water it's closer to 5'4" Maybe more. We race to "US Sailing" official average and they gave us a base of 138 instead of the 144. When you add above deck furler and 135% sail we get 150 PHRF. Alan Shedd has the same rating I think as well. I think unless someone else chimes in our Wild Oats us the most actively raced Morgan 382 on fresh water right now. We couldn't find anyone else currently racing.John,
Do you draw 5 or 6? My guestimate on our 6-ft would be 180/mile. Sometimes I think my old Hobie 16 tacked faster.
I'm not a huge racer, or club person, so pardon my not completely understanding of the question. My best stab at it would be that they were local PHRF ratings... Or the club that sponsored the race which was the North Florida Cruising Club or perhaps the First Coast Sailing Association.Who did your ratings for they race?
If you go to this page:I'm not a huge racer, or club person, so pardon my not completely understanding of the question. My best stab at it would be that they were local PHRF ratings... Or the club that sponsored the race which was the North Florida Cruising Club or perhaps the First Coast Sailing Association.
Www.sailjax.com
Sorry out that...double post...anyway...it's fun...you can become a better sailor. You learn better boat handling, how to sail more efficiently and some fun times most importantly.If you go to this page:
http://www.yralis.org/base-ratings?field_manufacturer_nid=1061&field_meas_loa_value[min]=&field_meas_loa_value[max]=&field_rate_spin_base_wl_value[min]=&field_rate_spin_base_wl_value[max]=&field_rate_spin_base_dis_value[min]=&field_rate_spin_base_dis_value[max]=
From your YRALIS PHRF rating is base 138
Well...not new this year. We replaced our other new cruising sails a couple years ago. Ken F. From here bought them. We purchased these for racing/cruising here on Lake Champlain. Light weight laminate sails that look like classic sails but are great in light air...I should say better! We can sail in 2-3 knots now without total collapse of the headsail. The picture below is in 16-18 knots...normally we would reef at 15 but didn't get a chance in this race. Just my wife and I...just getting the headsail trimmed moments laterAre those new sails John? They certainly appear crisp and white?
Gold colored Kevlar can be seen in this picture aboveAre those new sails John? They certainly appear crisp and white?
If you would like to discuss...I would be happy to chat...email me a phone numberI just got my PHRF New England certificate. Base rating of 144 adjusted to 165 cruising with 2 bladed fixed prop and no larger than 135% headsail on roller fulring. Going to give it a go this weekend in a local race. Interested to see how we do against a Catalina 36-2. And how she goes to weather compared to other boats.
So far my impressions of the boat compared to sailing my former Pearson 39-2 with centerboard is the boat is deceptively fast on a reach, is very forgiving (i.e. doesn't need lots of sail tweaking nor a lot of attention to the helm as she often can steer herself), seems heavier compared to the same displacement Pearson (with greater momentum coming up to a mooring), heels less, tacks like a full keel boat (boo hoo), and not so maneuverable under power (especially in reverse). But the key comparison is my wife likes sailing on it better (so far) as it is/seems more stable and upright and solid.
Learning the "gears" for the given wind conditions is important. Don't try and point with other boats ..."sail your boat" to its lines 15-20 degrees heel generally. In light air 10 degrees...so much to know... It really is "chess on water"!If you would like to discuss...I would be happy to chat...email me a phone number
I might be able to offer a few tips...and good luck...good sailing!
The more of these old boats we can get sailing the better chance we have of getting a better more favorable PHRF rating...yours certainly is an improvement over our 150.
They went off a 138 base PHRF instead of 144 base of the 382. We also have a max prop feathering prop.
Hi Warren...great news! I would love to see more owners racing their boats even if only every once in a while. Some are probably not suited if they have a lot of extra stuff but it's still fun to make your boat sail as well as possible.I would like to start racing my Morgan. I contacted the local club and was given the attached form. How do I begin to fill it out? Does someone here have one filled out I can reference? What about the drawings?
Hey Capt Pete did you have a good time today in that race? It was great weather on Lake Champlain todayI just got my PHRF New England certificate. Base rating of 144 adjusted to 165 cruising with 2 bladed fixed prop and no larger than 135% headsail on roller fulring. Going to give it a go this weekend in a local race. Interested to see how we do against a Catalina 36-2. And how she goes to weather compared to other boats.
So far my impressions of the boat compared to sailing my former Pearson 39-2 with centerboard is the boat is deceptively fast on a reach, is very forgiving (i.e. doesn't need lots of sail tweaking nor a lot of attention to the helm as she often can steer herself), seems heavier compared to the same displacement Pearson (with greater momentum coming up to a mooring), heels less, tacks like a full keel boat (boo hoo), and not so maneuverable under power (especially in reverse). But the key comparison is my wife likes sailing on it better (so far) as it is/seems more stable and upright and solid.
Hi Warren...great news! I would love to see more owners racing their boats even if only every once in a while. Some are probably not suited if they have a lot of extra stuff but it's still fun to make your boat sail as well as possible.
Are you going to be just racing in the Jib and Main (JAM) division?
What head sail do you have? 130-135-150? Etc.
Most of the info is on sailboat data but it's not always accurate. If you want I could help you over the phone fill it out. You can email me your email I'll email you back and I'll call you. I'm wondering how Capt Pete did today in Massachusetts? This is good news to me and my wife. Seems like we were the only ones racing these great old boats on a regular basis...inland anyway
This is very exciting Warren. I'd love to follow other Morgan owners who race their boats. It would be good for all of us to compare notes. So far we are all in different venues. I have a friend here on Lake Champlain with a Morgan 382. (Dave Who posts here) he's set up more for cruising but sails well too. It's a pretty boat...Namaste.I will PM you my email and phone number. I am free tomorrow if you want to call me. My Jib (new) is a 110. I'd like to measure it to confirm, but that is what the sailmaker said (what I ordered). My old headsail is a larger genoa, and I would definitely need to measure it. But in SF, the 110 seems about perfect. I plan just Jib and Main for now, but do have a spinnaker on board and would like to use that in the winter series. Might use the genoa in winter.
On a related topic. The pacific cup just completed. I would love love love to do that next year. I might be getting ahead of myself, but goals are important.
This is very exciting Warren. I'd love to follow other Morgan owners who race their boats. It would be good for all of us to compare notes. So far we are all in different venues. I have a friend here on Lake Champlain with a Morgan 382. (Dave Who posts here) he's set up more for cruising but sails well too. It's a pretty boat...Namaste.
I will give you a call today. I hope others will join in and give racing a try. You really learn how to handle the vessel in all conditions, sail much more efficiently, and it's fun because you sail in directions under conditions you might not regularly sail in...it also gives you some insight into how these and other boats were designed and why. It would be great to see some updated 2016-2017 PHRF Morgan's instead of 1998! Keep in mind you need to race a few seasons...you will be surprised at how much you can tweak and improve your sailing.
This sounds very familiar ...based on those conditions you did well. The more you do you will find its the small things that add up (most of the time anyway) to getting across the line ...did anybody take pictures? Good effort!Well, we had our first race with our Morgan 382. About the fourth time we have had the main up. Winds had been blowing from NE for a good day and half then died but leaving a messy chop with some 2-4 footers on the nose that weren't fun on the windward leg, where we estimate wind 0-5. We didn't do great on the start and it was downhill from there on that leg and then on the next leg which was downwind in about 5 with the same sea state so the sails kept getting dumped. We got passed by a couple of boats. We tried broad reaching/jibing downwind then we tried wing and wing. She just wasn't wanting to go to fast. The last two legs were long tacks to windward but the seas had calmed and the wind had risen to 10. So she found her groove and sailed nicely. Able to pass the Sarah 32 that had passed us previously on the downwind leg - and wound up beating him by 10 minutes on corrected time (us 165, them 200 PHRF rating). And we passed a go fast C&C29 with crisp sails (ours are old and baggy).
So we didn't feel so bad after all in spite of a 7th out of 9 finish. And I think folks in the fleet will keep an eye on us and may have a level of respect for our efforts - the Sarah skipper tipped his hat to us.
She is awfully slow to tack - our has the smaller rudder which I am sure doesn't help the maneuvering. And of course this was our first time trying to sail to windward and downwind. But we learned a lot and look forward to mixing it up again and seeing how we do. So I echo John's sentiments how racing puts you in situations you may normally not sail in and you learn how to sail your boat better and faster. I encourage others to do it. I have always found the racing community fun and welcoming. And in my experience every thing I have ever done wrong or embarrassing has been done by even the best racers at some point!
That's a great question since tacking in the Morgan is definitely slower that most of the hosts out there you will be competing against. Sometimes you need to back wind the headsail just enough to help get it over in chop but don't over do it...it'll slow you down too much.John,
What is your experience/advise on the best way to tack in the Morgan? What we did in the other boat I raced (a beneteau) was slowly turn up while the trimmers trimmed tight to keep the speed up, then turn a bit faster once we got into irons, but still not hard over. In light winds, the trimmer on the old working sheet would hold it an extra couple seconds to back wind the sail and pull the bow around. We would end the tack on a beam reach for more power and gradually trim and turn up as speed built. I'm thinking with the Morgan should we always backwind the job to turn faster? Or will a good breeze slow the boat more if we back wind?
This sounds very familiar ...based on those conditions you did well. The more you do you will find its the small things that add up (most of the time anyway) to getting across the line ...did anybody take pictures? Good effort!
That's a 8000 lb boat with a 23' water line...I think.Here's a shot trying to make the start. At least we beat the Catalina 28 (PHRF 219) in the foreground by 14 minutes corrected margin on a nearly 5 mile course.
Ha ha...that could be a good thing ...interesting they are going off a base of 150 instead of 138 or 144...here's what I haveSo I asked my sailmaker about my sail dimensions and his response was that he is on the PHRF committee! I still need to fill out the form and make it official, but it sounds like a base of 150, +3 for the 110% jib, and +6 for the non-folding prop. 159 total.
Looks like there is already a 382 in there...FWIW, here is the phrf list for Northern Ca.