Good afternoon. New Member here! Trying to find out if anyone knows the more current history of the 382 for sale in the BVI's. It was previously Windwalker and then Drifters Wind but after that the trail goes cold. It is currently on the hard in Virgin Gorda with a crack in the skeg. Any information would be helpful. I am in St. Thomas and might make a trip over to check it out.
Morgan 382 (Previously Windwalker and Drifters Wind)
- Thread starter tsmith
- Start date
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
you can hit things with the skeg. If you are going to repair, you want to open it to look in. Mine is full of foam. Design was supposed to be resin and microballoons; some evidently are hollow in part.
Given the very low price, you want to check things out carefully. By the way, 382s have 40 gallons of fuel in a keel tank, not 33 gallons, unless this has been modified in some way.
Good luck.
Given the very low price, you want to check things out carefully. By the way, 382s have 40 gallons of fuel in a keel tank, not 33 gallons, unless this has been modified in some way.
Good luck.
datswite
Ken Ferrari
That is a good price. I just bought my 1981 382 last March, and I paid a bit more for it. Not too much more, but more. I didn't have any real damage to deal with; actually it was in fantastic condition. But mine didn't come with all of the equipment listed with this one.
Take a good hard look at the keel and holding tank area (back of the keel). The yard shouldn't have it blocked at the back of the keel as shown in the photo (it's hollow back there).
I'd also take a look at all of the modifications/changes to the boat as it's far from original. Bowsprit. Cutter rig. Electronics. Selden spars (I believe the originals were Kenyon). Hatches on the forward part of cabin trunk. Dorades aren't original either.
Take a good hard look at the keel and holding tank area (back of the keel). The yard shouldn't have it blocked at the back of the keel as shown in the photo (it's hollow back there).
I'd also take a look at all of the modifications/changes to the boat as it's far from original. Bowsprit. Cutter rig. Electronics. Selden spars (I believe the originals were Kenyon). Hatches on the forward part of cabin trunk. Dorades aren't original either.
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
Well, the price is great if you are buying, but pretty depressing for those of us with 382s. I had no idea the value had dropped so far. Mine is pretty well equipped too, but no water maker. My impression is, though, that equipment does not drive the price of used boats. You buy new equipment, it does little to bump the price.
dave_a
Dave Ahlers
Terry, don't get too depressed, with old boats much of the value based on condition. If you've maintained yours in good working order, it will surely sell for fair market. The trick is to find someone who's not lured to the Bene's, Jenne's and Catalinas with their big cockpits and multiple aft cabins. Finding that one guy....CAN be tricky.
Classic beauty as opposed to mobile home build quality in a clorox bottle.
Dave
Classic beauty as opposed to mobile home build quality in a clorox bottle.
Dave
datswite
Ken Ferrari
Having just left the buyer's market 9 months ago, I can say that I've seen quite a range of prices on these boats. Low 15-20k all of the way up to 70-80k. At least from my shopping experience, condition does play a major role in the price of Morgans.
I did not find that in boats from other builders. I looked at A LOT of boats and asking prices were ridiculously inflated relative to comparable Morgans in terms of size, condition, age, equipment, etc. Frankly, I saw a ton of pigs commanding, in my view, unrealistic prices. Perhaps the general boat buying public is shopping strictly on name alone. Stick the name "Tartan" on a boat, and sellers expect to sell it for a king's ransom - regardless of the hole in the side of the hull (true story).
The difference was so glaring that I felt like I won the lottery when I found my boat. I still feel that way after having owned her for about a year. Granted, she isn't perfect and I had a motivated seller, but my boat is in awesome condition.
If anyone cares, or if it helps them value their own boat, I paid $34,000 for my 1981 Morgan 382, hull #257 in March 2013.
I did not find that in boats from other builders. I looked at A LOT of boats and asking prices were ridiculously inflated relative to comparable Morgans in terms of size, condition, age, equipment, etc. Frankly, I saw a ton of pigs commanding, in my view, unrealistic prices. Perhaps the general boat buying public is shopping strictly on name alone. Stick the name "Tartan" on a boat, and sellers expect to sell it for a king's ransom - regardless of the hole in the side of the hull (true story).
The difference was so glaring that I felt like I won the lottery when I found my boat. I still feel that way after having owned her for about a year. Granted, she isn't perfect and I had a motivated seller, but my boat is in awesome condition.
If anyone cares, or if it helps them value their own boat, I paid $34,000 for my 1981 Morgan 382, hull #257 in March 2013.
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
Well, it is certainly a buyer's market. I cannot believe builders are still able to sell a NEW boat. There is anything you want on the market. And my sense is that low ball offers are often accepted now.
dave_a
Dave Ahlers
Spot on Ken. It's all about how an owner has cared for his boat IMHO. Once you're "out of love" a boat goes down hill fast.
I was in love with Catalina 42's (from afar). I thought they had eveything I needed. Space, grace and pace. Then I spent time crawling around one. Build quality was just like my old Capri 22. Acceptable on an entry level 22 ft'r but 42?
Went home an hugged my Morgan. Bulwarks, tall cockpit coamings & lifelines. Says security to me. I know we have inner liners, but not a drop in pan like modern boats.
Its like our boats were built between times of old school "built in" interior & athwartship glassed in beams and today's Revell models where the interior pan is glued in the hull.
I don't think an M38X could be built today from an economic point of view. Maybe it'd be called Morris today (with some electrical system improvements?)
I still think about that Cat 42 that got away. Coulda woulda shoulda. But who needs a galley forward in a salon? Jeez?
I was in love with Catalina 42's (from afar). I thought they had eveything I needed. Space, grace and pace. Then I spent time crawling around one. Build quality was just like my old Capri 22. Acceptable on an entry level 22 ft'r but 42?
Went home an hugged my Morgan. Bulwarks, tall cockpit coamings & lifelines. Says security to me. I know we have inner liners, but not a drop in pan like modern boats.
Its like our boats were built between times of old school "built in" interior & athwartship glassed in beams and today's Revell models where the interior pan is glued in the hull.
I don't think an M38X could be built today from an economic point of view. Maybe it'd be called Morris today (with some electrical system improvements?)
I still think about that Cat 42 that got away. Coulda woulda shoulda. But who needs a galley forward in a salon? Jeez?
It seems to me that the Morgans sell cheaper that the other brands because the owners don't hold the price up. What else can it be. Clearly, they are better boats (if well cared for) then most boats selling for twice the price.
My boat is not for sale. But, frankly if I did want to sell her it would not be to anyone not having the respect for her to pay a proper $50+ price. I would not let it fall into that persons hands. I would donate her and at least let the money go to a good charitable cause.
NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE MY BOAT.
Larry
My boat is not for sale. But, frankly if I did want to sell her it would not be to anyone not having the respect for her to pay a proper $50+ price. I would not let it fall into that persons hands. I would donate her and at least let the money go to a good charitable cause.
NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE MY BOAT.
Larry
maluhia
Jim Ball
I would guess that the underlying issue is that the Morgan 38 series is over 30 years old. Many of these boats need basic maintenance and upgrades that now cost many $$$s to purchase and install even if you do it yourself. Some are in great condition, others not! As an example, I have 1992 Subaru SVX that cost $33K new and now sells for $1500 to $5K. Go figure! This car is great car to drive and is better than many that are new. I would not sell mine for even top dollar.
The problem is when it is time to sell and you have poured multiple $$$s into the boat that may or may not add to the selling price. I just attended the Barrett Jackson auction and saw cars that I knew the owner had invested big bucks and the going price was ridiculously low. The same thing happens in your neighborhood when your home is worth $500k and when a neighbors goes for $250k. Makes you cry unless you plan to stay for years.
Bottom line, I agree with Larry, but sometimes circumstances prevail.
Jim
The problem is when it is time to sell and you have poured multiple $$$s into the boat that may or may not add to the selling price. I just attended the Barrett Jackson auction and saw cars that I knew the owner had invested big bucks and the going price was ridiculously low. The same thing happens in your neighborhood when your home is worth $500k and when a neighbors goes for $250k. Makes you cry unless you plan to stay for years.
Bottom line, I agree with Larry, but sometimes circumstances prevail.
Jim
I know I displayed a bit of emotion. But it is how I feel. I'm an old yachtsman dating back to before it became boating. And no, I have no intention of changing. I'm comfortable in my ways, and not comfortable with what boating has made out of yachting. A Yachtsman would never accept todays boats. Our Morgan's are amongst the last properly designed and built yachts. They were designed to sail and keep you safe in anything Mother Nature can dish out. Todays boats are well designed for a cocktail party and to be plugged in nice and safe dockside. And that seems to be what boaters want today.
Last summer, in a harbor I won't mention I spotted a hull that looked like one of our Morgan's. So I dinked over to say hello. As I approached I could not believe what I saw. What a mess. No that was not the name of the boat, but it should have been. It was a wreck, still floating. Maybe it would have kinder to sink it, sad to say. It wasn't the fault of the new owner. He was working like a Beaver day and night, all the time I was there. And I doubt the previous owner was the only past owner to blame. This once well designed and made yacht had to have had a series of yachting ignorant owners. To them it was a boat, and that's how they treated it.
I'm pretty good at cost estimating. And my guess is that in order to get that Morgan into proper shape it would cost between 60 to 80K.,plus a lot of free labor from it's owner. So the simple realistic fact is that Morgan was never owned well and will never be a yacht. How sad.
The yearly maintenances needed are work enough for anyone of us to keep up. To start with a boat that needs much more than yearly TLC is starting in a hole that is going to be very difficult to dig your way up from. It will also cost you much more then you think it will. If and when it's all done you will be lucky if it only cost you 70k to own the yacht you could have purchased 5 years ago for 50k. But I guess some people have to do it that way. Me,....I would make do with a smaller yacht.
Larry
Last summer, in a harbor I won't mention I spotted a hull that looked like one of our Morgan's. So I dinked over to say hello. As I approached I could not believe what I saw. What a mess. No that was not the name of the boat, but it should have been. It was a wreck, still floating. Maybe it would have kinder to sink it, sad to say. It wasn't the fault of the new owner. He was working like a Beaver day and night, all the time I was there. And I doubt the previous owner was the only past owner to blame. This once well designed and made yacht had to have had a series of yachting ignorant owners. To them it was a boat, and that's how they treated it.
I'm pretty good at cost estimating. And my guess is that in order to get that Morgan into proper shape it would cost between 60 to 80K.,plus a lot of free labor from it's owner. So the simple realistic fact is that Morgan was never owned well and will never be a yacht. How sad.
The yearly maintenances needed are work enough for anyone of us to keep up. To start with a boat that needs much more than yearly TLC is starting in a hole that is going to be very difficult to dig your way up from. It will also cost you much more then you think it will. If and when it's all done you will be lucky if it only cost you 70k to own the yacht you could have purchased 5 years ago for 50k. But I guess some people have to do it that way. Me,....I would make do with a smaller yacht.
Larry
dave_a
Dave Ahlers
Larry - I wonder what he paid for that sorry old Morgan?
I learned along while ago the only way I could "afford" any boat was to do all the work myself. A bottom job and 2 part re-paint might be the exceptions.
Now this philosophy takes a lot of the fun out of ownership doesn't it? Its a "pay me now" (buy a late model Bendytoy) or buy a cramped, worn out 30+ yr old "classic". Chip away at maintenence every spring and suffer at resale: "pay me later".
No free lunch - either way, IMHO.
Frankly, this questionable ROI is why I'd hesitate to spend $10-15K on a new diesel. But we've all beaten that horse already.
I've never sailed in a "modern" yacht, much less in bad weather to experience the difference between M383 & the new breed. I do wonder if really that "bad"?
A Morgan downwind with a following sea isn't all that "relaxing" if you know what I mean. The term Laser "death-roll" comes to mind. More comfort and less "wet" than a Laser, but similar control challenges of course.
I learned along while ago the only way I could "afford" any boat was to do all the work myself. A bottom job and 2 part re-paint might be the exceptions.
Now this philosophy takes a lot of the fun out of ownership doesn't it? Its a "pay me now" (buy a late model Bendytoy) or buy a cramped, worn out 30+ yr old "classic". Chip away at maintenence every spring and suffer at resale: "pay me later".
No free lunch - either way, IMHO.
Frankly, this questionable ROI is why I'd hesitate to spend $10-15K on a new diesel. But we've all beaten that horse already.
I've never sailed in a "modern" yacht, much less in bad weather to experience the difference between M383 & the new breed. I do wonder if really that "bad"?
A Morgan downwind with a following sea isn't all that "relaxing" if you know what I mean. The term Laser "death-roll" comes to mind. More comfort and less "wet" than a Laser, but similar control challenges of course.
Good thoughts here, I just purchased my 382 after looking for quite a while, she needs some work but has good bones and needs nothing major that I can not do. I think one reason the M38X is such a good bargain usually is the name, when you say Morgan most people think "out island" . and I know some folks love them but all in all I think that model brings down the name of Morgan and it reflects ,unjustly , on the 38. Just my thoughts and worth what you paid for it, hope I have not stepped on any toes.
Dave,
Simply put all yacht designs are a series of compromises. Our Morgan's are not super tight to windward like a J, and they don't go downwind like a sled. But they go acceptably well upwind and you can tack her downwind at 155 to 160 degrees without a lot discomfort. Ted Brewer designed his compromises for an all around boat taking the edge off the up and downwind performance. She will still win some races, and she will always get you home. She's a great lady. Once you understand her, you're going to love her. Take care of her and she will love you back.
Simply put all yacht designs are a series of compromises. Our Morgan's are not super tight to windward like a J, and they don't go downwind like a sled. But they go acceptably well upwind and you can tack her downwind at 155 to 160 degrees without a lot discomfort. Ted Brewer designed his compromises for an all around boat taking the edge off the up and downwind performance. She will still win some races, and she will always get you home. She's a great lady. Once you understand her, you're going to love her. Take care of her and she will love you back.
terry_thatcher
Terence Thatcher
This is all interesting conversation. I agree the Morgan is a compromise, as are all boats. A little less beam and she would be a better sea boat, probably. Slightly more ballast too and she might have a limit of positive stability of 135 rather than 125. But I accepted the compromises to get more goat than an Alberg 37, which was my alternate choice. I think there are some great cruising boats being designed today, that surely sail better than the Morgans. Bob Perry does some of that. And even some of Brewer's older one off boats don't represent the compromises Morgan forced on him. I know the Catalinas are flat bottom inland water boats, although some of the bigger ones cross oceans. I met a guy who had gone to the South Pacific in a Beneteau 39 or something and was going again. It seemed to work. Slocum's Spray was a crazy boat to cross oceans in--massive beam, flat bottom, probably pretty high capsize screening numbers. We all do what we can to get out on the water and we are all probably a little crazy if we take small boats on to the oceans. At least, I know I am.
dave_a
Dave Ahlers
Larry it was about 150 (stbd qtr) as were the building waves. Full main IIRC was the real problem, as it was front blowing through and building wind strength. You know the saying:
If you ask yourself if you should reef...Reef!
We'd have had to head to wind to reef and would have lost the lead! Steering was fun for a while.
Dave
If you ask yourself if you should reef...Reef!
We'd have had to head to wind to reef and would have lost the lead! Steering was fun for a while.
Dave
Dave, I was in a race with the same conditions. The spinnaker boats broached.
The mainsail w/genoa boats took knockdowns. We dropped the main and flew by everyone with our 150 only. The steering was perfect and the speedo was reading in excess of 8knts occasionally.
The ride was GREAT.
Larry
The mainsail w/genoa boats took knockdowns. We dropped the main and flew by everyone with our 150 only. The steering was perfect and the speedo was reading in excess of 8knts occasionally.
The ride was GREAT.
Larry
