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Leaking around rudder post Morgan 382/1978

A

arts

Art Scarbrough
I purchased this boat 2 1/2 years ago and spent two years bring
it back to life. After putting the boat in the water this past
spring, I noticed a small amount of water leaking in around
rudder post about two gallons a week. Has anyone had this problem
and if so how was it repaired. Thank You
 
I too had the problem. During a haul, I bought the biggest channel locks i could find and got the nut off the post. It took heating it a little and tapping on it with some Liquid Wrench. I changed the flax, put it all back together - all done - no leaks. Enjoy the work hanging upside down in the locker unless you're small enough to fit in there.
 
<div>Tony, I assume you mean the water is coming through the packing nut. If this is the case it is a matter, as Bill suggests, of replacing the packing. Ensure you have the right size packing. I had used the wrong size once and it didn't stop the leak. Had to go to a specialty marine store to find the right size (I wrote the size down someplace and for the life of me can't find it -- big help :)). Normally, at least in my 79/392 the packing does not leak when not underway. The gland is above the water line. If yours is leaking all the time you might have another problem.

Dick

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<div>Bill,I have a early 382 (hull 4). I agree with the others. It is probably your packing. There were a couple of different size stuffing boxes used on the 382. Mine used 1/2 inch but I have heard of some that required 5/8 inch. To me it was easier to remove the packing nut from the shaft and insert the packing and put the nut back on. What wrench did I use? The nut on mine was 3 & 1/4 inch. I ordered a real packing nut wrench from West or Defender (I don't remember which) it only cost about $13 bucks. However, it was sill a little tight so I took an angle grinder and " adjusted" it.Good Luck,Vic
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I changed our packing while in the water. The static water level is below the packing.
Just to be clear: it's the rudder packing we are talking about. The propeller packing for sure needs to be on the hard ;)
 
Mark,
Thanks for your quick reply. I have a friend taking his 38 to San Francisco from Long Beach and discovered leaking around rudder post. He pulled into port and called me. I will relay your message to him. He did not have a wrench big enough for the lock nut. I carry a large C clamp and works fine.
Thanks again,
Pete
Buena Vida
 
Three rings of half inch packing did the trick on my boat. Just enough in the package from West Marine to do the job. Don't waste any.
 
if you crank down on the packing nut with the correct sized packing in there and the cuts are offset from one another properly, and it it still leaking, I would recommend taking the nut completely off and examining the rudder shaft and see if you have pitting in the shaft from corrosion. If you do find you have pitting, I would recommend that you take JB Weld or some product like that and fill the pitting, wipe it smooth while still flexible and then let it harden, then lightly sand so that you have a smooth finish, this will give the flax packing a smooth surface to seal against... I've heard of that being done in the past if a pesky leak doesn't resolve with a tightening down on the packing nut itself.
 
FYI. I just finished replacing the flax on our 1980 382. It took 1'11" of 1/2" for 3 rings. I put our 8' dinghy and a 40gal trash can on the bow and filled both with water, my 3yr old niece loved having a kiddy to play in! it raised the stern enough that barely a trickle of water came in during the replacement. there is some kind of seal under the flax that may have let in the same amount of water without rasing the stern, but i figured it was worth a shot. I also had a 120v pump hooked up and ready in the bilge, plus the 2 auto bilge pumps already present.
The edson quadrant was easy to remove and reassemble. I used a huge adjustable wrench to break the nut loose, had to go in through the port lazzerete and grab the end of the wrench to get enough leverage, also employed a rubber mallet and c clamp and finally circular vice grips for the last few turns. I tightened the nut as much as possible, rotated the rudder a few times, let sit for for 10 minuets, and repeat. No leaks and spent the afternoon sailing!
 
I replaced the original stuffing box 2 years ago as part of my transmission replacement project, which also included a new rear engine seal, new prop shaft and cutlass bearing. The PSS was the only one of the 3 big brands of dripless seal (Tides, Lasdrop, and PSS) thst would fit due to the constraints of the available space between the prop shaft coupler and the stern log. I went with a shorter shaft coupler to gain a little more room for the PSS. A careful prop shaft to engine alignment made a very noticeable difference in smoothness with virtually no vibration in the driveline. The configuration of the cutlass bearing on the Morgan 38s requires a pressurized water supply to cool/lubricate the PSS, and I tapped into the feed for the freshwater pump near the siphon break. The PSS is well engineered and manufactured. I bought the PSS and coupling from Deep Blue Yacht Supplies in Fort Lauderdale - good folks to deal with.
 
I have purchased a dripless shaft seal from PYI, referred to also as a PSS, for the engine shaft. Good to know if worked out for you. But I would like to do that for the rudder shaft. I plan to put that when I drop the rudder. While I have rudder off, I want to access if I can put the same dripless shaft seal for the rudder shaft. Anyone with this application?
 
Just pack the rudder shaft in the water with 3 rings of Gortex ( no drip) packing and tighten with a 3 1/2 jaw opening monkey wrench ! It will not leakThan.
Its above the water line , so you should expect to get no water gushing while your working on it ! Its more work removing and replacing the the edson quadrent
I dont understand why you plan to drop your rudder?
 
I have to drop the rudder to back out the propeller shaft enough in order to install the PSS dripless shaft log. On the rudder shaft, I understand your point and a dripless there is probably an over kill.
 
John, I put a PSS in, didn't drop the rudder. I think I just pulled the coupling off the shaft. If I needed more room I unbolted the transmission, which is infinitely easier than dropping the rudder. Good time to replace or at least inspect the flex plate while your in there.
I wouldn't want to pay PSS for giant shaft log, when $15 worth of flax packing will do it. Make sure you put 3 rings in there like Lee said.
 
I would like to avoid dropping the rudder for sure but I can't see how I can get this on without doing so. Unbolting the transmission seems like a big thing. Let me take a look at that, I'm not very mechanically inclined so I might need to get a real mechanic for that task.

I'm convinced however by the comments on this thread and concede the point on the rudder shaft since the packing nut is not under the water line. So I will go with the packing material. Hope I can avoid dropping the rudder on the PSS for the drive shaft. I'll go and inspect that closely this weekend. thanks much.
 
This may need to be on another thread but the steering is very stiff. Do I need a nylon washer on the rudder shaft where it connects to the skeg? That was noted in the survey. Any one with this issue that was solved?
 
John, there's 4 large steel turning blocks or below deck to take the steering cable aft to the rudder quadrant. Also a chain and sprockets in the steering pedestal. Lubricate all that stuff first before messing with the rudder. Don Casey's "This Old Boat" might be good addition to the library. It covers a great deal of boat maintenance tasks.
 
My 382 has the Orion steering which does not have the typical cabling and pulley system like the Edson wheels. Our boat sat a number of years before we got it. The steering was very stiff. We lubed the chain in the pedestal with WD40 and the wheel autopilot with silicone and now it is silky smooth. I was amazed at the immediate difference.
 
If any one ever hasn Wheel chain problems Edison SS chain is wel $$$$$. SS motor cycle chain from Granger is stronger and half the price.
 
If your rudder shaft is pitted and you remove it ,Take it to a welder! Weld the pits and smooth out ! Good for another 30 years ! Gortex 1/2 inch packing of course.
 
Thanks for all the replies. The first thing I purchased before taking on my 382 was Casey's This Old Boat. Great reference source indeed and I have gone to it for help. It sounds that my steering is likely more like Capt. Pete. It does not have a pulleys. Out of from the bottom of the steering pedestal, cables come out and then turn a circle back to a metal stop device then from there, cables come out and go around a half quadrant . Very little cable is seen. I will lube all of that to see if that helps. Thanks.
 
Hi John, The key for us, in addition to silicone on the wheel pilot, was lubricating the chain in the binnacle. It was easily accessed by pulling out a spring loaded pin facing aft and lifting up the whole black compass housing shown in the pic so the chain could be accessed. Good luck. Peter
 

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Great advice too. I have the compass off now so I have access. It appears very clean inside but I will apply lubricant to that and the wire coming out of the cables below and see if that resolves the problem. Thanks folks.
 
The pin is aft pointing at wheel in the black compass housing about an inch or two up from the top of the white binnacle. My setup is no doubt original.
 
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