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Ideas on ceiling replacement

tfrere

tfrere

Thomas McNulty
I'd like some thoughts on this idea.
A few months ago I had to replace some plywood on my cabin walls (window level) because of neglect from previous owners. I did not use teak plywood as I wanted to lighten the cabin anyway so I planned to either paint it or put an off-white formica over the new wood.
Now I am thinking about replacing my ceiling liner at the same time as covering the walls using the same product for both. I have been looking for a plastic wall sheeting and thought hard about FRP or NRP panels as opposed to the formica because it is less likely to crack. I don't want the orange peel look so I believe I have decided to use a product called PolyWall from Parkland Plastics which is relatively smooth like formica. It can be found here:
http://www.parklandplastics.com/polywall.shtml

My plans for the ceiling are to remove the old plywood. Use it as a template to cut the new wood then adhere the polywall to the new wood and reinstall with insulation above it. Has anyone else tried a similar product? Any issues I should be concerned with?
Thanks,
Tommy
 
I have to ask why are you doing this? I believe the headliner is fiberboard not plywood. It is also used for door panels in cars. Using hard materials increases chance of condensation.

For insulation I recommend the foil bubble wrap material between the headliner. You might also think about installing downlighting throughout.
Jim
 
Actually Jim, my headliner does not look too bad but it is beginning to sag in a few places. I was going to use plywood because I thought it was marine plywood and not fiberboard on top of the vinyl. I'm surprised Morgan used fiberboard though because it seems as though it would be more suseptible to rot. I guess if it lasted for 32 years then it can't be too bad.
My plan was to replace the vinyl with the plastic sheeting because I need to order a minimum of 10 sheets and the walls can probably be covered with 2 sheets. Also, they would be the same color as the ceiling if I use the same product.
Are most people replacing with fiberboard or some other type of product? I'm not dead set on anything, I just want to dress up the interior of my boat and make it look nice again.
 
My boat's ceiling is the fiberboard with a thin foam backed vinyl covering, contact cemented on with a couple inches of overlap on the back side. Once you located a source for a vinyl you like, it appears to me to be easy to duplicate - if you can use the old panels as templates.

Tom, I'd cruise the bathroom section of the home stores if you want a hard surface. There are sheet goods used on bathroom walls and surrounds. (if you can stand the thought of anything Home Depot on your boat) You might be able to duplicate the "Herreshoff look".
(white panels, varnished trim). FWIW

Feel free to ignore my fashion advice!
 
Plastic is a hard material, not a good insulative, reflects sound, and in my opinion, would look cheap. I recovered my panels with vinyl and it was not an easy job. There is also a foam backing. To do it, pick a hot day so the vinyl can be stretched! It is critcal to prevent sagging.
Jim
 
A good material for ceiling panel replacement is Sintra. It is made from pvc and is foam cored and comes in white. It can be glued with PVC primer and cement, painted with almost anything. It can be cut with a razorblade knife or a saw. It is used in making outdoor signs so it is UV resistent and does not absorb moisture and can be cleaned with any kind of solution. I would use 3mm material and it comes in 48 x 96 sheets and its cheap. Look up your local Plastics Distrributor in the phone book.
 
Tommy
I replaced the vinyl ceiling in my Morgan 2 years ago. I used new fiberboard (Lowes or HD) and the old board made a great template. I also used the old vinyl as a pattern for the new vinyl. We found vinyl at JoAnns Fabric store. The job turned out looking better than expected, but we did make a few mistakes and learned a few tricks that I wish I had known in advance. Picking the glue for the foam to fiberboard is critical as is the glue for vinyl to fiberboard. Stretching the vinyl is critical and there are tricks and tools to help. There is going to be a piece that needs special attention unless you want to remove a chain plate. You may find you have to cut that largest piece around the deck hatch in two to get it out of the companionway hatch. If you do a search on this web site you will find advice from others. I think one post mentioned using a hard material like formica wasn't good because it makes noise as the boat flexes in a seaway. The metalized bubble wrap (Lowes or HD) makes a worth while addition as an insulator. Wraping the foam and vinyl around to the top side of the fiberboard helps make a tight fit to reduce movement. If you have thin teak trim plates around chain plates or the mast, be careful not to break them as you remove them. They will be dry and brittle. You also get a chance to look at the top side of the old board to help identify the location of any deck leaks. And best of all for us... all the musty odor or old boat smell was completely gone once the project was completed. The old vinyl, foam (1/4 inch) and fiberboard holds odors and yes moisture too. Oh, one more thought. It's also a chance to open up some storage space above the quarter berth. We added an opening 'hatch' to give us access. If you would like to discuss one on one, my email is seabreeze384@hotmail.com
 
Rick: I am right now replacing the overhead in the quarter berth to createa storage locker above the berth, wedged under the cockpit coaming. I am using 1/4 inch marine ply, with glassed reenforcments. I knew there might be vibration and noise problems. What material did you use and what, if anything did you do to deal with the vibration and noise from hard material like plywood. My new overhead will be screwed in pretty firmly to new mounting battens.

Thanks.
 
Bill Creadon: Thanks for the Sintra suguestion. I've been pasively looking for a foam board to replace the headliner.

Jay
 
Terry
I used fiberboard, 1/4" foam, and vinyl; just like the original materials. I glued the foam to the side of the fiberboard that will face down. I cut the foam so it ends just at the edge of the fiberboard, then stretched and wraped the vinyl over the edge and made a 3" or more overlap to the top side of the fiberboard for plenty of glueing surface. Doing this creates a cushion at the edge that seems to absorb and inhibit any vibration caused noises where the ceiling meets the trim pieces that help hold it in place. As you stretch and pull the vinyl over the edge it pulls the foam to the edge surface without overlapping the foam to the top side of the fiberboard.
Rick
 
Jay, Bill,

I used Sintra for the entire boat. It is cheap, waterproof, and flame retardent. I bought a 3mm sheet and realized that I would have to put some kind of stiffener behind it because it was just too flexible.
The 8mm (1/4") thickness was perfect. I glued Reflectix (Home Depot)on the upper surface and then just used the existing battens to hold it up. Reflectix is an aluminum covered bubble wrap material about 1/4" thick.
The installation left an airgap above the Reflectix that varies from about 1/2" to 3/4" depending on location. The boat is much cooler. The Sintra seems to be staying in place and does not vibrate or anything. I did not use glue anywhere, but PVC pipe glue should work.

Tim
 
Tim,
I don't know why anybody would use moisture absorbing materials or rely on overlaying vinyl to fiberboard. The PVC foam board materials are a dream to work with and you can get sheet material as thick as 1". I have built my A/C installation base and several other projects using the PVC foam board material. I have replaced the fiberboard access panels under seat cushions, made dividers and partions and some cabinets with it. You can saw it, rout it, screw it, glue it, and paint it and moisture and mildew have no effect on it. You can clean it with soap and water or a bleach solution. Did I mention that it is UV resistent. I built an entire Dock Box 24" x 24 x 90" and made a hinged lid utilizing a hot air welder. I own a plastic machining and fabrication company and have used it for almost 20 years. The material is also know as Komacel, Komatex, and Komadur (different mfgr). To each his own. If you need fabrication information or information on welding it, contact me. I'm happy to share this information.
 
Bill,

Thanks for the offer. This project started (naturally) with a deck leak. After buying the boat, I began rebedding everything on deck according to tradition. In doing so, I needed to remove the headlinger in a few places to get to the bolts (even though Morgan used a lot of screws). That's when I noticed how nasty the headliner really was. There were many large wet spots and warpage.
Determined to find a waterproof material, I searched the web for weeks. I was astonished at how many types of plastic materials are out there. Some were quite expensive, not locally distributed, not flexible enough etc. Sintra was perfect.
After the headliner, I needed to build an adapter/face-plate for a new electical panel. I used left-over Sintra to create a template since it works so easily. I told my wife what I was doing, and showed here how it would be installed using the Sintra template to demonstrate. She said she liked the Sintra better than teak, and it brightens up the nav area.
Later I built propane lockers from Sintra. In that project I added a layer of glass and epoxy to ensure strength. If Sintra has a weakness, it appears to be abrasion.
I have not tried welding it, but I have used a heat gun to bend it when I used it to create a trim ring around a hatch. It has become my new building material of choice! The next project is to reinsulate/rebuild the refrigerator. Hmmm, might use Sintra there too!

Thanks again,

Tim
 
Tim,
You know the value! You can buy a cheap Plastic Welder from Harbor Freight and I'll sell you welding rod (white PVC). Once you weld it you won't mess with fasteners or glue. It's not rocket science to learn to weld plastics. Another trick when your bending is to lightly score the material and you'll get a 90 degree inside corner with no radius. On thicker material you take a light cut with a table saw with a thin blade then heat and bend. We use a strip heater and make perfect bends up to 8 feet long. Remeber your working with PVC so heating and cutting and sawing requires some ventilation.
 
Bill,
Since you are knowledgeable on the topic of sheet pvc used as headliner, maybe you can help me with my search. I have been sold on the idea of using 1/4" pvc to replace my headliner but I would like to find it with a beadboard pattern that gives the boat more of a vintage look. I've been able to locate pvc beadboard in planks and also located 4x8 sheets that are 1/2" thick. I'd really like to find 4x8 beadboard sheets that are only 1/4" thick but have had no luck. Are you or anyone aware of a manufacturer I could contact regarding this size? Thanks,-Gary
 
Gary,

The smooth Sintra that I used looks great, but I think the beadboard pattern really would add more character to the appearance. I found Sintra at Laird plastics in Orlando, but there are dozens of locations all over the country. I think Bill can cut your internet search time down by a factor of 10.

Tim
 
Gary,
The reason your not going to find Beadboard a 1/4 thick is the cofiguration of the profile features. It would be very flimsy and difficult to produce. I checked and I would be surpised if you found 1/4 thick material. Good luck in your search. Remember, your going to need a small amount of actual material so it needs to be in stock and virtually no minimum quantity. You could buy the 1/2 thick material and cut slot in the back side to make it conform to your contour. Just a thought.
Bill
 
wow! you guys have it easy!, atleast you have the old head liner to use as a template!!! me, well the prevous owner remove all the headliner and trashed it, he said it was all falling down and rotted,sounds like there was a lot of leaking going on! i have been reading all threads about headliners, doing my homework and experimenting and i have found a way to make templates out of cardboard,transfer it to the fiberboard{which i decided to use after months of going back and forth about what to use}and then test fit the pices and make what ever changes needed. it's a slow prosses due to the fact that i live 5 hours from my boat and i do a few sections at a time. i'm useing the fiber board from lowes, i went with the slightly thicker fiberboard because i will be installing LED down lights and i feel the original thickness will sage with the added weight.i will be using the bubble wrap from lowes in 2 layers. i will be paintng the back of the fiber board with a few coats of primer/sealer to seal it against any moisture that comesin contact with it along with any future leaks.the original foam looks to be 1/4 inch thick,i personaly don't like the thick pillow look so i have decided to go with 1/8 foam and marine vinyl.i will also be useing the same material on the sides where the port lights are, the prevous owner started to put the bulbley formica stuff on the walls but this dosn't look very good. i'm hopeing this will brighten up the cabin.

new 0wner 1980 morgan 382
williwaw
 
I'm having a difficult time findig fiber board in anything less than 3/4" thick. I will check with some local lumber yards to see what they carry but the big boys (Lowe's and Home Depot)only have the thick stuff.
 
Tom
I and others have used the term fiberboard in previous posts. Actually Lowes and Home Depot call the stuff I used "hardboard". It is 1/8" thick and sold in 4' x 8' sheets. It is smooth on one side and has a rough texture on the other side.
Rick
 
tom is right, it can be found by many other names, fiberboard, hardboard, masonite. at lowe's it's hardboard, the sizes are 1/8th thick Item #: 15483 | Model #: SS1254825 and 3/16 thick Item #:15486 | Model #:SS2204825
 
<a href="http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-ever-happened-black-waterproof-cardboard-door-panel-material-104066.html" target="_top">http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-ever-happened-black-waterproof-cardboard-door-panel-material-104066.html</a>
 
I saw the hardboard at Lowe's and was wondering if that is the product you guys were using. Are you putting the smooth side up in case a leak occurs?
 
i put the smooth side down, i think the foam backing that is under marine vinyl will glue to it better, i am also painting the top part[the ruff side] with primer/sealer because this material is not waterproof
 
I am gearing up for headliner replacement. I like the idea of a semi-rigid material that will not absorb moisture, such as pvc foam board. I got a sheet of Sintra 6mm. It does not seem very durable...dents and scratches fairly easily. To those who have used pvc foam board...are you still happy with the results? Any other suggestions for alternate materials? I would rather not have to deal with vinyl covered wood.
 
Go to lowes and check out the Polywall in the paneling section. All they stock is white but the can special order almond. I've had it on for about 5 years now and am very satisfied.
 
Bonnie and I have been on Tommy's boat on Lake Pontchartrain. The Polywall that he used on the overhead looks great and obviously stands up well. I'm thinking that will be the way to go when my time comes.

Jim
 
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