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How safe/sturdy is the Morgan 382?

P

phboujon

Philippe Boujon
Hi All,

My girlfriend and I are looking for a boat to go cruising for 2 years, leaving from Los Angeles, CA and going to South Pacific/South America. We are in our early 30s and cannot put too much money into a boat. The Morgan 382 attracted our eyes. The boat was reviewed highly by Gregg Nestor, John Kretschmer and John Neal as a great performance cruiser. However, how does the boat do as an offshore cruiser?

The #1 criterion for us is safety/sturdiness. When I look at the Morgan 382 characteristics, it seems to have a capsize ratio of 1.81 & an LPS of ~120 degrees. The LPS barely meets offshore standards, and the CR ratio isn't that high (at least in comparison with other performance cruisers, ex: Valiant 37, Valiant 40). This concerns me.

I read this blog archives and saw one person who took the boat across the Atlantic. Have anyone cruised the South Pacific with that boat? How about rounding any great Capes? Anyone endured difficult conditions that could report on the sturdiness of the boat? Not that I wish to be in those conditions, but I want a boat I feel safe in, if the conditions were to happen.

It is clearly a great coastal cruiser, with high praises from the above authors and from the owners (I read lots of the archive, and I am impressed by the community). However, before buying one, I want to make sure it has the potential to be a safe offshore cruiser (once equipped obviously).

Thank you all in advance
Philippe
 
Many Morgan 38s have sailed all over the Pacific and do very well off shore. Look for a 6 foot draught version for even better performance. Any boat has trade offs. The heavier the boat, like the Valiant, will be like a slug but is stable but a moderate displacement boat, like the Morgan 38, is a good off shore boat if it is rigged correctly. In fact, the Morgan has sailed and won or placed in the Pacific Cup to Hawaii many times.

Happy Shopping!

Jim
 
Hi Philippe:
You've got CR backwards. Lower numbers are supposed to be less likely to capsize. I'm sure you've done a lot of reading regarding what makes a boat offshore-worthy. The recommendations that you select a boat with LPS > 120 and CR less than 2.0 is a starting point. There are plenty of stories of people crossing oceans in all kinds of boats and the skipper and crew in many cases play a larger role in safety than the boat. I agree that safety is no place to compromise but you must also evaluate how much difference in real safety is indicated by a small difference in CR.
I find http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html to be a good source of data.
M382 = 1.83
Valiant 37 = 1.79
Is the 0.04 difference in CR significant? There are probably other more important considerations.

While we are comparatively new owners of our M382, its former owner sailed her to Bermuda twice. We plan to do the same but with upgrades to meet the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations for Race Catagory 1 Monohulls. We delivered a Beneteau 38 from Florida to Tonga - over 9000 miles, mostly in the Pacific, I would much prefer to be on the Morgan.

As everyone will say, it's a series of tradeoffs.

-Alan
 
Thanks for the replies so far!

Sorry for my stupid mistake on the CR. It was a morning post and my mind wasn't working, but I meant "is high".

John Rousmaniere book recommend a CR less than 2.0. However, other authors, such as Holtrop, go further and recommend less than 1.8. I am also using Carl's Sail Calculator to shift through boats.

You're right that it is but a ratio, and there are more important considerations.

That is why I posted, so I can fear from owners who have sailed their Morgan 382 through difficult conditions and continued to feel safe in the boat.

Basically, I am trying to convince myself that the boat is safe, and the only way I can do that (short of being invited to sail on one) is to hear from other owners.
 
Part of any boat is the maintenance, upgrades, safety equipment, and knowledge of the captain. That can get you through most anything!

The Morgan 38 series is an excellent ocean going vessel if it is out-fitted correctly.

Jim
 
I forgot-it does need a experienced Captain and crew! With that, it can go anywhere; and money no consideration.
Jim
 
Philippe and all:
A year or two ago Practical Sailor had an article that queried something to the effect "What makes good cruising boat"? They combined many of the measurements and ratios already mentioned. The Morgan 382 wound up in the list of optimum boats, behind one of Perry's classics and another well known cruisers. At a fraction of the "premium cruisers" cost, the 382 represents a great value.

Since I already owned my 383, I took some pleasure and pride in the results of the PS article.
 
The captain and crew (we will be two only, but who is who is highly debated ;) ) will have taken all U.S. Sailing classes by the time we leave, which will include each an offshore trip. Will that make us experienced? Not enough, but that's what we can do under our timelines.

Is the Morgan 382 a forgiving boat for beginners, and can it take care of the crew when the crew might not be able? it's probably an impossible question to answer but that is why I am searching more about it.

In term of outfitting, we will have 1.5 year, if we buy the boat around now, to refit and outfit it. It's a tight deadline and we will refit and outfit with the necessary needed for offshore.

Anyone recall the month/issue # of PS where they compare cruising boats? I'd love to read that.

Thank again for all those replies. It definitely help.
 
I am not sure what you mean by a forgiving boat? I don't believe that such a boat exists. Your experience, knowledge of the boat, and luck is what will get you through the tough times.

I don't believe anyone should take on a trans-ocean voyage without a lot of offshore experience with other knowledgeable sailors.

Another thing to consider is outfitting the boat. This can easily take 6 months to a year starting from an unprepared boat. Major boat systems take lots of time and $$$$'s. You can always attempt to find a boat that is totally outfitted and up to date, but that will generally cost a lot more and may not be available. All this must be weighed by your situation and budget.

Jim
 
Phillippe -

There's some excellent advice here. Safety can be best enhanced by preparation and experience. The brand of boat itself is not as important as these two criteria, in my opinion (since an experienced boater would not look to use an inadequate boat for the task at hand).
Preparation will help avoid small mistakes from becoming big mistakes, by ensuring you're ready for a number of possible eventualities. And experience will provide guidance on possible alternatives when you encounter problems you hadn't anticipated.
I think that all Morgan owners would agree that the boat, as originally built,was robust enough to handle offshore cruising, though building methods for certain components and systems used then can't compare to standards today (untinned wire, gate valves, PVC piping etc).
However, as most of our boats are roughly 30 years old, you shouldn't take comfort simply by buying any Morgan - you'll need to do the necessary work of getting to know your specific boat inside and out, and determining what's good, what's bad and what's downright scary about your vessel. The good news is that the hulls and spars of Morgans have a reputation for sturdiness. Just about everything else can be replaced, if need be, but a good hull is critical to a good boat.
In my mind, the boat is a "forgiving" boat in one respect. I bought mine 3 years ago and have done a ton of work to replace most systems and do some significant alterations. My mistakes aren't obvious, and have not ruined or hurt the boat in any way. It takes a beating and still performs fine. The electrical system, motor, plumbing are all easy to work on and repair. Having no fancy stuff like digital fuel injection or CPU regulated battery cooling systems means I don't have to worry about ripping out the old to put in something new. I just go ahead and do it. But I agree with Jim that there's no boat out there that's going to "forgive" someone who sails in strong winds without tuning the stays, or allows for numerous accidendal gibes or runs aground on occasion.
The bottom line is that, if you do buy a Morgan, you're getting a boat that's relatively easy to get to know (especially with this website!), sails well, handles rough seas better than most, and is, as an added bonus, one of the prettiest boats in any harbor.

Matt
 
Thanks all for your advices. I am now convinced that Morgan 382 have sturdy bases, and a great buy for the money.

We will be careful in our planning. I have been sailing since 7 years, coastal only, but we are going through the entire U.S. Sailing program to be more proficient together. Furthermore, I am planning to take offshore classes with either John Kretschmer or John Neal before leaving, in addition to the U.S. Sailing offshore class. With my work schedule, I unfortunately cannot take the time to participate in longer offshore events. The elarning will also be along the way, descending the coast of California & Mexico.

I surely understand the boat needs to be refitted for offshore. There are two years that I have been reading all books to understand what needs to be done, on a budget. As long as the hull, spars, and structucal members inside the boat are sound, I can try to do the remaining, and seek help or professional labor when it's over my head.

Thanks Matt for pointing to a great advantages of Morgan 382, how forgiving they are to work on. By "forgiving", I didnt mean to make major mistakes while using the boat, but a boat that doesn't need micromanagement like today Catalinas or Hunter when sailing.

Thus, now on, I indeed will post in the next few weeks specific questions about the 382 as I will be starting to visit some along the coast of California this weekend.

Thansk again
Philippe
 
<a href="http://www.sailboattraderonline.com/listing/1978-Morgan-382-94756129" target="_top">http://www.sailboattraderonline.com/listing/1978-Morgan-382-94756129</a>

a good boat for fair price and 6 foot draughts!
Jim
 
The deeper the keel, the more righting ability and stability in my opinion.

The negative is that you have 12 inches more to worry about.

Jim
 
Hi guys we are back! Philippe : My 1978 Morgan 38-2 has done 5 Marion-Bermuda races. Thats 645 Nautical miles offshore and equal return. Granted it's almost 20 years ago but in 1991 we had huricane force winds and 40 foot seas for about 10 hours. When the wind was down to 45 we all ate in the cockpit. However as Dave say's these boats are antique's by car vintages. Any boat of this age needs a very good survey if it's going offshore. My last M-B race was in 1999. Tony Carey Has not posted on this but he has crossed the Atlantic at least twice in his 38-2.

Dick
 
Jim, that's great info! The articles were perfect.

Dick, thanks for the info, it reassures me to hear the boat has been going offshore quite a bit.
 
The Morgan 382 Ghost won the West Marine Pacific Cup in 1992, Class A, San Francisco to Kaneohe, Hawaii. That is 2070 Nautical miles.

Jim
 
Jim: It's even more impressive...

From what I understand, Lou and Kim Ickler have raced Ghost, their Morgan 382, in the Pacific Cup to Hawaii at least six times. Nice photo at http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2004/0704/July14/July14.html
Since they are from Hawaii, they have to sail to San Francisco then race home. (more than 4000 miles each trip) They were second in class in 1992 - a Moore 24 won that year - see http://www.pacificcup.org/pcychistory.htm
They won Divison A in 2004. See http://www.pacificcup.org/2004-we-begged-more

-Alan
 
Phillippe: I agree generally with all that has been said about the sailing ability of the Morgan; they are not perfect (nor is any boat), but for the price they are fine ships. I will add only these comments: First, I have always been convinced that the most dangerous part of coastal or long distance cruising are land falls and anchorages. I think it is likely you will run into land sooner or later, no matter how careful you are, especially in rock and coral strewn tropical paradises. If I had my choice and the money, I would get a well found, well surveyed steel boat for long distance cruising. I have seen both fiberglass and steel sailboats after they spent a couple of days on a reef. I would rather be in steel. Second, it may sound silly, but in rough conditions, any boat is going to bounce around a lot. Consider wearing a bicycle helmet--especially below. A friend, sailing alone across the Pacific in a Morgan 382, spend 3 days recovering from a concussion after he was thrown across the cabin. He always uses the bike helmet now. Third, don't ignore east coast options for the 382s. If you get one well equipped and updated, you might save even with shipping. There is what looks like a very robust, well equipped 382 (wind generator, Monitor, I think water maker, etc) for $65K somewhere in the country now. (I saw it fiddling around on Yachtworld.)

I hope you find your dream boat.
 
One word for steel - RUST. The areas of a steel boat that are the most prone to rust are the places that can't be seen or are seldom accessed. Give me strong FG anytime!

Jim
 
Terence Thatcher (Terry_thatcher, The Morgan 382 you noted is mine. I put her up for sale about 5 weeks ago due to some health issues I have. The Morgan is in wonderful shape and has had over 138,000 dollars worth of work done to bring her up to current standards for international sailing. Yes, their is a water-maker, Mini-M, radar, AIS (Receive/Trans), Winslow 6 person life raft, etc. I have her on the hard in Port Charlotte, Florida (just north of Fort Myers). She has always performed well on very long sailings. I sail about 98% of the time single-handed and she is a real dream with the monitor!.
 
Donald--I am sorry to hear you cannot sail your ship anymore. I didn't have one already, I would come buy yours. She looks wonderful. Best of luck selling her.
 
Alan, Jim, thanks for the info about "Ghost". That's impressive and it speaks highly of the boat.

I am visiting another Morgan 382 this coming weekend in California, and next weekend in Seattle.

Donald, I have your boat on my radar too. Would you mind if we chat by email about it? I belive my name can be clicked to see my email, otherwise it's simply phboujon at gmail.

Thanks all for the information
 
I have a nice 382 for sale in San Diego. It is set up to go anywhere. Buying a house in Nevada.
Gary
1-775-742-0855
 
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