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Holding Tank Sensor - A Drop in Replacement

datswite

datswite

Ken Ferrari
All - I'm installing an Electrosense Holding Tank monitor into HuskaBean. I saw them at the Annapolis boat show last spring and thought they made the best product for the application. No moving parts. Stupid easy installation. Waterproof sensor. Stainless steel probes. Nice interface. Custom designed for the tank. Accurate. Relatively inexpensive. And, they will custom make a 1.25" NPT sensor that is a direct replacement for our sensors. The 1.25" sensor isn't a regular size they stock, but they have confirmed that they will make them for us.

Let me know if you're interested, and I'll share the contact information for their rep who has agreed to provide the custom-sized sensor.

Full disclosure.... I received their product in exchange for writing a product review. However, I still believe it's the best aftermarket monitor that I've found.

Ken

Here is a link:
http://www.electrosense.com

And some photos of my kit:
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I am not planning on doing this right now, but just for future info... how much is "relatively inexpensive"?

Is there any reason not to mount it vertically so dots go up as tank fills up?
 
hallelujah said:
I am not planning on doing this right now, but just for future info... how much is "relatively inexpensive"?

Is there any reason not to mount it vertically so dots go up as tank fills up?
Click to expand...

Helene, the kit sells for $189. That's in-line with other aftermarket sensors... maybe a few bucks more. However, the probes are custom cut for the shape and volume of the tank. They should be more accurate and do not require any calibration.

You could certainly mount the display in any orientation that you'd like. I don't know if they make a vertical model.
 
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Ken,
Have you installed the system yet? Any input for installation? I also see on their website that the network cable is a plug-in on top of the sender which obviously would not work well in the bilge. Is the cable molded into your sensor? Send me the contact as I too am interested.

Thanks,
David Smith
 
David - I have installed the sender but have since removed it. It screws right in. The hole is currently fitted with a 1.25" NPT plug. I need to finish a few projects in the bilge, and I'd rather not have the wire in the way. The hardest part is removing the old sensor, and, even that isn't too hard. I used a large jaw basin wrench, and it pretty much came right out. I have installed the control panel - mounting and wiring it is all that is required. I wired it to the electric panel inside the nav table - where the old dummy light was fused.

They make 2 versions of the sensor. One has the Cat5 cable plugged right into the sensor, and you can't use it in the bilge. They also make a low-profile sensor, which is what I have. The Cat5 cable is permanently attached to the sender and is bedded in epoxy. Make sure you order the low-profile version! They provide cables in varying lengths - up to 50ft, I believe. You'll need to decide where you want to install the control panel so you can order the correct cable length. I was going to install mine in the head, but decided against it (the back of the control panel isn't waterproof, and I was worried about the shower). I installed my control panel near the nav station, so, my cable is far too long.

I'll send the contact info in a message.

Ken
 
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Ken
I think this answers a question that I've had for some time. Over next winter I am relocating the holding tank to the V- bunk. We found that when we traveled to Florida, we needed more volume for the poop. Measuring how much we had in the tank was a problem I needed to work out. This gizmo may just do the trick. Please let me know your experiences with the unit. One immediate question that I have is, how high does the unit stand above the top of the tank? The new tank will only have 2" of clearance on top.

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
Ken
I think this answers a question that I've had for some time. Over next winter I am relocating the holding tank to the V- bunk. We found that when we traveled to Florida, we needed more volume for the poop. Measuring how much we had in the tank was a problem I needed to work out. This gizmo may just do the trick. Please let me know your experiences with the unit. One immediate question that I have is, how high does the unit stand above the top of the tank? The new tank will only have 2" of clearance on top.

Jim
Click to expand...
The low-profile sender is probably no more than 1.5 inches above the tank fitting. It really depends upon how far it's threaded into the tank. They custom cut the stainless steel probes based upon the shape and volume of your tank, so it should be highly accurate. There is really nothing to fail on the sender. No power draw in standby mode. Easy to read and attractive display. So far I've been very pleased with the unit.

Ken
 
Ken
That is good news. I've already prepared the space for the tank below the bunk. Dana originally had the over and under bunks which I converted to a single bunk at the higher level. I'm hoping to have room for a 30 to 35 gallon tank. This summer I'll be working on a cardboard mockup of the tank. There is a company in Maine that will make the tank out of welded 3/8" plastic. having the means to measure the content is a big plus. Thanks.

Jim
 
Richard
I'm sorry this has taken so long, we've been off sailing. The name of the company that make the welded plastic tanks is: Triple M Plastics, POBox 319, Kennebuckport, ME, 04094. Their phone number is 800-873-7767. The woman's name is Katrain. Very nice and helpful.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim!
No problem on the response time. I won't be working on the boat until maybe October, so there was no rush. I had found Triple M on the web, and thought that was probably the company. Hoping you had some great sailing! That stbd settee water tank is pretty large, so I'm wondering if it makes sense to ship these things back and forth from FL and ME. Maybe there is a good tank maker here in northern FL. "Anybody" feel free to chime in!

Rick
 
Rick
Where is your tank leaking from? Mine was leaking from the discharge fitting. Just a small crack where the fitting was screwed into the plastic. Every couple of years I put a dollop of 5200 on my finger, reach my hand into the inspection port and jamb the stuff into the crack. Works fine and beats doing surgery on the cabinetry to remove the tank.

Jim
 
Jim,
I haven't been able to locate the leak, but it stops when the tank is about 3/4 full. When I looked around with a small mirror through the inspection port, I thought I could see a crack. All of the fittings look OK. I'm going to have to remove the tank to find it. The PO said he fixed it with a soldering iron, but I gather that the specialized plastic welding equipment is the best way to go. Since plastics have come a long way since 1984, I think it might be best to replace the unit and not have to worry about a worsening leak. It looks as if Triple M uses polypropylene instead of polyethylene, and the materials are very similar, but I don't know which is really better for this application. PP is used for hinges in deference to PE, so it may be more flexible and better suited as long as the welding method is proven to work as well as it does on PE. Heat processes always alter the plastics!
Rick
 
Jim Cleary , I live in fla so tell me more about your tank being to small for fla ? I always go out side the 3 mile limit to macerate . Did you cruise and stay in the keys ? I'm about to go to the Exumas in April .
 
Lee
In the Bahamas, pump out is not an issue. In Florida it's a different story. Last winter we cruised Florida to Key West. In Boot Key Harbor we had to pump out twice a week. Getting out to the three mile line is not always easy or desirable. We are heading to New England and Maine this week and will probably be looking for more space for poop. The consensus is that the Morgan's holding tank in the keel holds 18 gallons. After years of use I don't believe that is a true number.

Jim
 
Rick
It's just that removing the water tanks is such major surgery. If the leak stops after the water level drops then maybe there is a crack near the inlet hose fitting or the smaller vent fitting. You might be able to reach those with an arm though the inspection port. The 5200 has worked fine for me, as I know exactly where the crack is. If this is your starboard tank, do you see water on the hull when you look in the bilge through the sweep pan?

Jim
 
I think the holding tank is 15 gallons . Undersized for a 38 ft boat ! You are correct it should be larger. I'll have to pay to pump out !
 
Jim,
I see water dribbling at the after inboard corner, when I open the wet locker door under the nav station, but it's not possible to see where it leaves the tank. All of the fitting connections and hoses are dry.
Hey, when will you be in Maine? Our family has a summer place up there near Bar Harbor, and will be there for a visit in August or September. Are you going that far north?
Rick
 
Rick
If you are seeing water in the wet hanging locker, I would guess that the leak is at or near the inlet or the vent fittings. A crack below the fitting would not show moisture on the fitting itself. Try reaching in the inspection port with your mirror and look closely below the fittings. When the tanks were installed they didn't use threaded bushings welded onto the tanks, they simply drilled a hole slightly smaller than the fitting and screwed the fitting into the hole. This causes stress and possibly cracks as the plastic ages. Again, a dollop of 5200 might be a better solution than ripping out the tank.
We left last night for our journey to Maine. This year we are going to spend our time exploring Portland and the Casco Bay area. Mt Desert and Bar Harbor are not on the menu. We would love to meet up with you and share a beer. Let us know when you are heading up for your visit.

Jim
 
That is exactly where my Settee tank leaked , the corner just up and cracked. I had a tank company in Largo Fl fix it for me. to remove the tank I cut with a small circular saw along the edge , you have 3 inch clearance before you hit the tank. The tank is in a large fiberglass bin water proof. after cutting my 3 sides i pryed the top off. To re attach i used a 5 foot hinge in brass just in case. Tank is bulky not heavy .

Best of luck
 
I pulled my 60 gallon starboard settee tank last fall as it had leaked for the previous 5 years. Cut out of plywood top was easy with circular saw and Multi-tool. The tank had small cracks running from both the inlet and vent fittings. I took the tank to a small company in West Palm Beach, Florida, called Duraweld. The cut the entire end off the tank and welded in a new one complete with new fittings - all while I waited- for around $125. Good folks. No leaks now. I refastened the plywood top using 2" aluminum straps all the way around held in place with about 60 screws - remember when the tank is full it will weigh about 500 lbs. and would be very dangerous in a knock-down situation.
 
Thanks for all of the responses. In Xanadu the settee was already cut
bob_mcdonald said:
I pulled my 60 gallon starboard settee tank last fall as it had leaked for the previous 5 years. Cut out of plywood top was easy with circular saw and Multi-tool. The tank had small cracks running from both the inlet and vent fittings. I took the tank to a small company in West Palm Beach, Florida, called Duraweld. The cut the entire end off the tank and welded in a new one complete with new fittings - all while I waited- for around $125. Good folks. No leaks now. I refastened the plywood top using 2" aluminum straps all the way around held in place with about 60 screws - remember when the tank is full it will weigh about 500 lbs. and would be very dangerous in a knock-down situation.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Bob. Good point about the mass of that tank and the need for strength in the new seams of the settee. I'll get in touch with Duraweld this fall. It will be nice to find out just where the leaking originates.
Best,
Rick
 
This tank leak stuff is really just not quality material 30 years ago !. Most leak right in the same place !! I pulled mine and had it plastic welded also. 1983 384
 
Can someone who has already done an order please post up the actual order? depth, cord length, tank shape , so that we dont have to round up all this information? I have a 79 382 and my stock tank sensor was never even hooked up. This is fantastic timing . Thank you for doing so much leg work.
Rene Marin
 
Well, about 30 years service isn't too bad before leaks start. Most of the problems I have seen with plastic fittings are design issues. Since a lot of them are copies of metal tapered designs, we have people tightening the dog snot out of them, and the fittings must deform. The male fitting compresses and stretches the female fitting to a larger diameter, and when it doesn't completely seal, they tighten it more, etc. So eventually, when it is tight enough to make the obvious leak stop, "job done!" the stored stesses in the female fitting slowly overcome the plastic's resistance, and cracks begin to appear and propagate. Combine that with the natural aging process of the material and the cracks open up enough to produce another obvious leak. The only thing going for these tanks, longevity-wise, is that they are not out in the sun. So plastic tapered pipe fittings need to be treated carefully - cleaned well and used with either a proper pipe dope (recommended by the manufacturer) or Teflon tape. Also, it is wise to only put a maximum of two layers of tape on the threads. If the parts are deformed enough, Teflon tape may not work any more, and it's time to replace the fittings. In addition, the Teflon is softer than the fittings, and it will cold flow, so if the joint is over tightened, it will squish out almost all of the Teflon, if it can.
From all of my engineering experience, the best plastic fittings are usually straight threaded with o-rings. When they are properly designed with the correct O-ring material and sizes and the O-ring groove is correctly dimensioned, you almost never see any failures. But you can't sell as many of them as you can tapered ones!
Rick
 
Has there been any talk of retrofitting a Morgan 38 with all this company offers? fuel, fresh and black water tanks? My fuel gauge has a cork float and presently using a synthetic "cork float " off of a whisky bottle.. Just a thought
 
Rene - I had really good luck using a large jaw basin wrench to remove the old sensor. It came right out.
 
I tried that with no luck .. That bugger is in there. Lucky i am a heavy Diesel guy and i do have sockets that big and much much bigger. =)
 
Well that was a fiasco... My tank uses a 1.25 and the sensor is 1.50.. After 4 hours of work i had to put it all back together just as it was. After going back and forth with them i am no closer to a solution and my boat smells like hell even after i bleached the tank and had them pumped three times. I sit here very disgusted on so many levels.
 
I mentioned in my post that it was a 1.25" sensor and that it was custom. Did you talk to Chris Ferro?
 
Yes, i placed the order with Chris and even used your diagram. It was a disaster to say the least. I mutilated the original sensor to get it out so there was no putting that back in. When i was trying to thread the " way to big one in" and realized it was a no go i had to run to the local Home Depot and find a plug to fit it.. they were out of pvc 1.25......... which led to a race to lowes in the end.. it was not a good weekend to say the least and this failure on my part lead to a long cleaning session to try to get the smell out. sigh*
 
How is yours doing? I sent the info to Chris and im sure we can find a solution .. It was just a bad weekend a couple projects turned into Greek tragedy's this weekend.
 
I had the same issue initially... that's how we determined that it was a 1.25" hole. Chris said that they would make them for other Morgan 38 owners, so that is why I posted the thread. Not sure what happened in your case. Forgot, maybe? Hopefully they will help you work it out.

Mine has been great, so far.
 
Well and here is your answer.. I told you we could find a solution.. just was not expecting it on a Sunday night =)


Hi Rene,

I screwed up.

You are one of those guys who found us through Ken Ferrari's blog. I went all the way back and looked at the very first email that you sent to me, and you mentioned Ken.

Unfortunately I completely forgot.

We custom-made a 1.25NPT sender for him, and so we should have made yours that way as well.

This is my fault, and we're going to get the right sender out to you as soon as we can.

My apologies,
Chris Ferro
Electrosense
 
lol!

Glad to see them own up and take responsibility!! I was very impressed with Chris and Electrosense. Looks like they're following through! Sorry to hear it was a mess, though.
 
For anyone interested, I just finished installing my new monitor from Electrosense today, it all went well. Getting the old fitting off the tank was interesting - I didn't have a tool that would work until I pulled out my trusty vice, clamped it onto the hex bolt, and turned it with a pliers to get it started. After that it was screw off - clean - screw on... I took pics. I am VERY happy, this tank was the only system that I had no way of monitoring.
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It is always the help of others that brings out the creativity - in this case Jay Green a fellow Morgan owner just up the creek from me. Big thanks to Jay.
 
Nice! Do you guys know if this company is still selling these? I tried calling a few times and emailed....no response.
 
I just put one in on my boat.

Try Chris here ( chrisjferro at gmail dot com ) and leave a message he gets back to you eventually. I think it is a one-off kind of thing and small company so it always took a day or so more for a response.
 
Ken, Rolf:
I'm planing to put new holding tank sensor, any opinion abut Electrosense after two years.
Yurek
 
Yurek
I installed an Electrosense tank monitor two seasons ago when I put a 36 gallon holding tank under the V-bunk. It has been working fine and is very easy to install and use. I would highly recommend the unit.

Jim
 
I've been a full-time liveaboard for a few years... since I installed this product. Still extremely pleased with it. Works as advertised. Zero power draw unless you're actively pushing the button. Highly recommended!!! Great product!!
 
Yurek,
I echo Rolfe et al. It was about the easiest job I've done so far on Xanadu. Best pipe joint compound I've used is Oatey Great White. Just hand tighten snug over clean threads, and you're all set.
Rick
 
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