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Four Technical Concerns--compass, propane, boom preventer, hatches

pmf44

pmf44

Member
Hello... Anyone with any ideas or recommendations please:

1. Teleflex binnacle compass--repairs? parts? replacement? I do not think parts or repairs are possible. I refilled it myself but then the leak got worse. The globe is cracking too.

2. Propane-specifically what size bottle and where did you install it? I am trying to do this without major deck or glass work. The approved boxes cost a small fortune and may not fit in the best place. My thought is a smaller bottle in a homemade sewer pipe/pvc box in the lazarette.

3. How did you rig a boom preventer? Any nifty or elegant ideas? I will likely put a bale on the boom near the clew and run it with a block and tackle to the forward cleat.

4. Hatches--have you replaced or rebuilt the overhead deck hatches? Do you have any specs on replacement size/brand/cost? I may simply replace the lenses and gaskets or put in new hatches.

Thanks for your time and consideration.
 
I have replaced deck and cabin hatches with Lewmar Ocean 60s. Drop in replacement. I did so because the Bomar hatch lifting attachments broke. If everything on Bomars works, replacing lenses works.

For preventer, I installed a high tech line wrapped 3 times around near the end of boom, with ends going through holes with round fairleads on each side of boom and tied inside the boom. Didn’t want to add hardware. If you do, I would use padeyes, not a bail. Bail not strong enough. Onto that line I attached two high tech lines run up nearly to front end of boom, each with an eye splice. I have turning blocks attached to anchor roller bails, and run a line from cockpit, up deck, to turning blocks, then back just past shrouds, then ties off to rail. When I need a preventer, I simply attach one of the boom lines to one of the deck lines with a bowline. This arrangement means the preventer is accessible, and easily deployed. Idea comes from John on Attainable Adventure Cruising website.

I sealed my aft lazerette and store 3 squat propane bottles in shelves built into the area. Two propane hoses run through the bulkhead, well sealed.
 
Wow--thanks.I am going to print this and study next time I am on the boat. And I will review the Lewmar Ocean 60's. I wonder if that required any cutting or widening of the rough opening.
 
Paul
I've posted about replacing the deck hatches previously. As Terry did, I replaced the Bomar hatches with Lewmar Ocean 60's. The flat flange model. It was the easiest job I've ever attempted on the boat. An advantage to the Lewmar hatches is that they can be opened from up on deck. They can also be locked from below. The major disadvantage of the Bomar hatches is that the people at the Pompanet Company who handle the Bomar line are first class morons.

For the propane system, I installed a rack in the lazzerette that holds a 10lb aluminum tank. To fit the tank into the locker, a notch was cut into the forward edge of the lip that supports the hatch cover. The locker holds the tank that is in use, a spare tank, and 5 large fenders. There is a drain in the locker but when the stern squats when under power that drain hole is under water. I added a second drain fitting just before the turn of the transom. The locker was also well sealed up under the deck. The Propane regulator and the Trident solenoid are also mounted in the lazzerette.

Jim
 
Jim Thanks...all very helpful. I assume the Lewmar 60 allows replacement without any cutting or modifications to the deck. I have looked into replacing the lens and gasket, which is often a preferred method when a replacement hatch is a super high priced item, but in this case I think the actual new hatch cost may be competitive with repairing the old one. My challenge with the lazarette for propane is, as noted, fitting a bottle into there without deck modifications. As for proper venting in accordance with ABYC, that will take some thought. Muchas gracias.
 
My propane tank Standard BBQ tank sits on the back deck on a special pad to fit the bottom and there is RV tank cove that goes over it !
My bomar main salon hatch broke the hatch holders so i went to the marine salvage yard and for 60 dollars found a bomar ocean 100 ! same hatch ! I stripped the paint new priner and 2 coats of algrip while ! All four dogs work now too. I still have the old hatch not in bad shape but i stole all the dogs off. Its in the garage !
The compas can be sent to a compas repair guy a pro . Ocean going ships of commerece need life rafts and compases checked all the time. Maybe check with the local life raft company they could steer you to the compass guy in your area !
 
Thanks. A used Bomar 100 might be nice, if I can find one. Teleflex, the compass maker is no longer in business. I already took the compass in to J Gordon in Annapolis who is looking into whether or not parts are available. If not, I'll have to find a new one with similar mounting dimensions and was wondering if anyone else has a different compass that fits on their binnacle, which presumably is the same. I may have to write to Edson, which fortunately is still in business, and find out which compass will fit.
 
Paul
The modification to the lazzerette hatch to fit the 10lb aluminum tank is only to the lower lip of the hatch frame. When the hatch is closed the notch isn't ever seen. I found the photo of the notch cut in the rim. All attached are photos of the original lazzerette drain hole and the added one up higher.

Jim
 

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Well...the tanks are one thing but where best to install and what kind of enclosure remains an issue. The molded enclosures cost way more than tanks! I have looked into making an enclosure out of sewer/drainage pipe for about $100 versus 7 or 8 hundred from West. Venting down low in the enclosure and making sure that vent cannot allow gas to get sucked back into an enclosed space is the issue. The logical place is the main hatch-locker but it will impede access to the quarter is ever needed. The aft or lazarette, as noted, requires some cutting and glassing and cannot vent anywhere near the exhaust or fuel vent so...???I will continue to experiment. thanks
 
Like Lee, I came to the same conclusion that a (fiberglass) tank on the port rear deck push pit would be the be easiest solution. Feed the galley stove and maybe the Magma on the other side of the rail. The dinghy outboard back there too. Not an aesthetic triumph, but you have put things somewhere in 38'.
Now a 42 footer.... that'd have enough room! Uh oh, I have 4 foot-itis again
My boat came with CNG tanks below the helm seat. Not ideal for cruising. Still got'em, never pulled the propane trigger.
Dave
 
I know you guys are propane bomb guys but we bought the Origo stove and never regretted it.
No tanks no explosives...no pressure pump like old alcohol stoves ...cooks everything fine.if it didn’t I would have had to pull it...easy to get and stove fuel. And while we are at it since I know I’m going to hear it...a fraction of the weight ...great for light air days!
 
Well, as with anchors and so many other boat issues, we do have a lot of opinions. I am told that newer alcohol stoves are an improvement over the ones I used to use and to pump and light by hand back in the day...whenever that was. But I know of a couple incidents where alcohol-fueled fires destroyed boats. There are two side to this story. I find the smell objectionable and if the fuel is spilled it can spread quickly and water will make it worse. I have had two flareups with alcohol. Most of us know the pros and cons and choose propane anyhow despite safety concerns which I think are mitigated because of valves, regulators, solenoid and approved serious hose and fittings unlike most alcohol. Beyond that, the challenge with alcohol is the low heat output which means it takes a long time to boil water which means more heat in the cabin and a flame burning for a lot longer.
 
Well...the heat is not that much less the way they work now. But to each his own...far many more boats have exploded and disappeared along with with boats around them. The alcohol stoves from Origo are different. No spills. You can dump them upside down.
 
wild382 said:
Well...the heat is not that much less the way they work now. But to each his own...far many more boats have exploded and disappeared along with with boats around them. The alcohol stoves from Origo are different. No spills. You can dump them upside down.
Click to expand...
Ok. Not wishing to debate this but the fact is that the heat output in white gas is way less than propane. In terms of cost versus heat, alcohol costs more and burns at much lower heat than propane. But as I said, there are two sides to this story and perhaps the newer stoves have advantages over the old ones.
 
The original stove that was on the boat when we purchased her in 1987 was fueled with kerosene and primed with alcohol. After two oven fires and one nasty countertop fire, we bid those fuel goodbye. The installation of the propane system was fairly easy and straight forward. With the proper installation and safety procedures the system has been working well since 1996. The tanks are in the lazzerette. That locker has been 100% sealed from the rest of the boat. There are two always open drain holes at the lowest parts of the locker. All the gas controls are also in the lazzerette. The gas hose that leads to the galley in enclosed in an interduct protector. There are shut off valves under the galley sink to stop the gas flow quickly. There is a Trident gas detector in the bilge that will not allow the solenoid to open the tank if gas is detected.

Bonnie, who is a wonderful cook, Loves to cook on the boat since the Propane system was installed. Before that it was a lot of PBJ.

Jim
 
Ooooookay....arrrrgh! Yes my family comes from a long line of real pirates. Sinking ships off Rhode Island to the Carribean ...Fort Royal all the way back to the late 1500’s.
Concerning new alcohol stoves...Just the research wasn’t done nor complete...Origo’s for example burn at 400 plus degrees. Propane Burning at 2000...what are you heating metal..these are not 1980 stoves ...
Timing tests, boiling a quart of water are close. A little longer doesn’t bother us ...it’s like sailing. We tested against our neighbors propane. No doubt propane burns twice as hot. The new stoves are being installed on many newer boats. We also cruise not just race...we spend plenty of time on the boat for the last ten years.
Just another viewpoint....you can expect blowback ...as Jim ball used to say “there are pros and cons to everything...all compromises...choose what you like”...we like our choice..you can like yours...
 
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John

Are you a pirate?? I'm not disagreeing with you because we both have different uses for the cooking systems on our boats. Seeing that you mostly race the boat, you don't do a lot of cooking on board. The Origo stove serves you well. We travel long distances for long times. Our system needs to provide 3 meals a day for the duration of our journey. Yes, you must be very safety conscience with a propane system. But it is not rocket science to do the job correctly. Much has been written about how to do it. pmf44 might want to discuss with who is going to do the cooking on board his boat as to what cooking system they would like.

Jim
 
A vote for the propane locker- the cost seems high but Trident lockers are really nicely made, high quality fiberglass that matches the boat. The cost includes a lot of the hardware for the propane system with it- regulator, valves, gauge, hoses, solenoid, etc. That stuff is a considerable cost on its own if you don't already have it. I was lucky to find a Trident locker on eBay for about $500 and it was pretty easy to install on the outside of the stern railing. I suspect you can use a plain steel barbecue tank, since it is so well protected.

With the locker on the stern rail the valves and tanks are very accessible to shut off when leaving the boat or to change a tank and to watch the pressure gauge to check for leaks. I don't think I would want a tank down in the lazarette, how do you get to it? You aren't supposed to have anything else in there which seems like a lot of space to sacrifice.

It may seem minor but actually has been very nice to plumb the Magma grill to the locker too. Just open the lid and pull out the hose and regulator for the grill, no more rusty green propane canisters that always seem to leak away after the first time you use them.

On the Origo stove vs pressurized alcohol vs propane, we have had all three and the Origo is my favorite, but my wife likes to cook and she like the propane. We do like the propane - the flame is hotter and we now have an oven which we never had before. We had endless trouble with the old pressurized Kenyon alcohol stove, stay away from those.
Steve
 
jimcleary said:
John

Are you a pirate?? I'm not disagreeing with you because we both have different uses for the cooking systems on our boats. Seeing that you mostly race the boat, you don't do a lot of cooking on board. The Origo stove serves you well. We travel long distances for long times. Our system needs to provide 3 meals a day for the duration of our journey. Yes, you must be very safety conscience with a propane system. But it is not rocket science to do the job correctly. Much has been written about how to do it. pmf44 might want to discuss with who is going to do the cooking on board his boat as to what cooking system they would like.

Jim
Click to expand...
I do the cooking! I would not have it any other way.....
 
My 384 has a BBQ tank on the port side deck IN a RV cover Its really not in my way . I had new hose made my electric shut off is there too and my trident propane panel is mounted next to the trash can opening ! Fast and easy no locker no fuss. It lasted me 90 days and i still have lots of gas left . And we ate well steaks clops No PP and J ! MY rebuilt freezer is 22 in winter and 32 in summer Holding plate . I always start any cruise with DRY ice in the bottom and 20 pounds of ice on top ! That will carry in fla 10 to 2 weeks till melted. All chops in Food saver shrink bags etc. I have a generator so i can operate AC or any thing any time !
 
stnick said:
My 384 has a BBQ tank on the port side deck IN a RV cover Its really not in my way . I had new hose made my electric shut off is there too and my trident propane panel is mounted next to the trash can opening ! Fast and easy no locker no fuss. It lasted me 90 days and i still have lots of gas left . And we ate well steaks clops No PP and J ! MY rebuilt freezer is 22 in winter and 32 in summer Holding plate . I always start any cruise with DRY ice in the bottom and 20 pounds of ice on top ! That will carry in fla 10 to 2 weeks till melted. All chops in Food saver shrink bags etc. I have a generator so i can operate AC or any thing any time !
Click to expand...
Lee
Where do you buy the dry ice?
 
Here in Florida we have food stores called PUBLIX some stores sell dry ice , not all. i tracked them down and one 3/4 of a mile not in my town sells dry ice. Its hard to get cruising but i always ask every port ! You just never know !
 
I had a alcohol stove for years , I threw it overboard after I discharged the Fire extinguisher What a Mess !.
So when the Morgan came with a Alcohol stove and Oven I ripped it out. I went to propane. The Goodyear hose company makes all my hoses to length and attaches all the fittings.A division Of the goodyear tire company !
To this day my extinguishers are halon and its Not cheep. But dry and safe ! Im not one to be double crossed by my own equipment .
 
We threw our CNG away! Never have regretted it.
Origo stoves are being installed On lots of new boats ...they are extremely safe but not cheaper.

They are Not the alcholol stoves of the past..there is no pressure. Each alcohol burner has its own sealed little reservoir...you can hold it upside down...no spills whatsoever.
It’s a good option for some people, maybe not everyone, but those who like the extra margin of safety ...

We use very expensive laminate sails ...they are not for everyone ...but then again we sail quite nicely in 3 knots of air. Maybe because we don’t have that heavy old propane bomb onboard. :)) to each his own...
 
When i built my home here in florida the natural gas line did not run past my house . Power on florida does go out on a regular basis in bad rain and lightning storm , This is the Tropics !
So i called the Propane people and had a large tank underground installed. We cook with propane, The home heater is propane The Dryer is propane ! When we lost power during the hurricane we lost power for 4 days . I Have a Old Honda 2k gen to keep the Refrigerator running . The stove still worked . It was 4 hot days and No power, Im very grateful it was only 4 days there were many it was a week or so . Puerto Rico is still with out power !?
On the boat I have a Generator to so i have options where ever i cruise, and my Propane ! Its the Explorer Scout in me always prepared !
 
Wow what a POINT ! There is not a successful restaurant that does not use Gas to cook with . No chief worth his reputation would attempt to use electric for ovens and stove tops.
I put my self thru Computer school being a short order cook . And i was short 5' 6" !
 
'; Sure what the heck . In Tarpon Springs a greek sponge fishing towns Hard hat divers are Part of this town culture.
 
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