• Welcome to this website/forum for people interested in the Morgan 38 Sailboat. Many of our members are 'owners' of Morgan 38s, but you don't need to be an owner to Register/Join.

Electronics: What if you could start from scratch?

T

todd

Todd Clift
On Rhea, our '79 382, The old Datamarine speed and depth instruments are junk, the VHF is a crystal radio, the radar is toast, and there are no wind instruments. But, there is a LORAN!

So, this year I'm bringing down the mast to replace all the lights (that don't work anyway) with LEDs. But while the mast is down, this would be a great time to put on a VHF antenna, wind instruments and a radar.

From everyone I talk to on my dock, they recommend picking one manufacturer (say, Garmin or Raymarine) to ensure compatibility.

I would like the thoughts of the Morgan owners here. Has anyone recently updated their electronics? Are you happy/impressed with one company over another?

This is going to be a MAJOR expense, so I'd like to get a few opinions.

Also, where to install everything is a bit of a question. There are already two good-sized holes in the starboard bulkhead next to the companionway. I'd rather not put the new wind, speed, and depth there because crew likes to lean against it (but the holes are there...). I'm not thrilled about mounting pods at the helm since the mainsheet could snag them. One thought is to get a multi function display and put it on a swingarm just inside the companionway.

Anyway, any thoughts on this project and opinions on electronic companies are great appreciated.

Cheers,
Todd
 
Todd:

It just so happens that I replaced my Data Marine instruments this spring after 34 years of service. They were getting a little hard to read.

I can't speak to the wind instruments or the radar because I have never had them onboard. I ended up putting my new instruments in the same holes that the Data Marine instruments used. I thought about trying to buy or construct some sort of bridge panel above the companion way inside the dodger, but I just don't have that kind of time to spare.

I put in Raymarine i50 speed log and depth. So far I am very pleased with the performance. Installation of these instruments requires the use of the raymarine backbone "Sea Talk", so adding and integrating in the future should be simple. Even with the extra wire from the backbone I was still able to fit everything inside the existing instrument box.

Frank
Aldebaran 1978 382 #80
 
We are in the process of refitting Pilgrim (1979 M382 hull#115. Hopefully in the not to distant future we will begin to deal with electronics.

We overhauled the electronics in our M34 C'est la Vie a couple years ago and will be installing much of that hardware on Pilgrim. When purchasing new electronics for C'est la Vie we went primarily with Garmin & NMEA2000 compliant devices. The decision to use Garmin was based on availability and price. Other than the mast head wind indicator which never worked properly we were pleased with the Garmin product line.

If I were starting over from scratch and my project included an autopilot, then I would consider purchasing the same brand auto pilot and instrumentation. Although NMEA2000 standards should make it possible to mix and match, I've run into some headaches. I never could get our Raymarine SeaTalk Tiller pilot to talk with the Garmin GPS on C'est la Vie.

Definitely purchase NMEA2000 electronics. On C'est la Vie we had the depth sounder, the wind/weather instrument; the GPS/Chartplotter, the primary VHF, and a small multifuction display all connected via the NMEA backbone. I cannot imagine wiring that network together with NMEA0183 or eariler. NMEA2000 made it easy. The only downside I can see to creating an all encompassing NMEA2000 network is that all your eggs are in one basket. If a short or lightening strike brings down the network there will be trouble. As a backup we had a couple handheld GPSs & VHF Radios.

GPS - We have always used a garmin GPS/Chartplotter combo. On the M34 we had a Garmin700 series in the cockpit and a Garmin400 series at the nav station. These have proven to be reliable. The past couple we have owned have had the built in GPS antennas. We have mounted these both in the cockpit and below decks without any trouble picking up satellite signals.

VHF - We were using a ICOM VHF with DSC operating on NMEA0183. Through some trail and error I was able to have the VHF pick up the lat/lon from the NMEA2000 network. This is a piece of gear we will likely update. Would be great to have a NMEA2000 VHF / AIS combo. But I've not done much homework in this arena.

AIS - I've not done much research in this arena either. Seems like a nice bit of kit to own if planning to sail in coastal or offshore waters. Last month did install a Vesper Marine AIS system in a Brewer 44. While I did not use the system I was impressed with the hardware and ease of install.

DEPTH TRANSDUCERS - West Marine staff told me that it is impossible to run a depth transducer off the power on a NMEA2000 network and that I would need to purchase a garmin transducer that mated with the GPS. Not true. We have a NMEA2000 Airmar B122 transducer that reads depths to circa 200' and gives water temp.

WIND / WEATHER - Like I said before we had issues with the Garmin GWS10 wind sensor. Garmin recently purchased Nexus instruments and is in the process of updating their line-up of wind / weather instruments. That said, we plan to bite the bullet and purchase one of the Airmar 200 or Maretron WSO100 ultrasonic wind / weather stations for the masthead.

INSTRUMENT DISPLAY -We had a single garmin GMI10 mounted on the starboard bulkhead in the M34. This display was fantastic. The ability to create customized screens was very useful albeit a bit difficult to set up. I know garmin has updated the model. I hope we can afford to purchase two more of these displays. One more for the cockpit (total of two) and one to mount at the nav station.

PLACEMENT - Pilgrim's mainsheet / traveler has been moved to the cabin top so we do not have an issue with the mainsheet at the helm. But, I am not fond of the giant pods many people are installing on the helm guard. We plan to fabricate or purchase a simple mount for the Garmin700 series GPS / plotter combo at the helm. We already have a autopilot control display to the left of the helm below the cockpit combing. We will install a mount for a remote VHF mike in this area as well. I plan to relocate the engine panel to the right side of the cockpit below the combing.

The two garmin instrument displays will replace the original Data Marine instruments on the starboard bulkhead. While at anchor on our M34 we placed a cushion against the bulkhead and leaned back against the displays without issue.

I hope to install a Garmin instrument display connected to the NMEA2000 network at the nav station. Additionally I plan to install a Garmin400 series GPS/plotter at the nav station. This GPS unit will not be linked to the NMEA2000 network and will serve as a back up / redundant system.

On our M34 we had the GPS/Plotter mounted on a swing arm in the companionway. This worked very well on a smaller vessel with a tiller as the unit was accessible from the helm. I think that mounting the unit in this fashion on the M38x would be less than ideal. Distance from the helm would make the unit difficult to read and the unit would require leaving the helm to operate.

Ok, think I have gone on long enough and need to get back to work.

Hope this is helpful
 
For budgetary purposes, I keep having to ask myself "what is it that I want to know?". The answers are almost always: depth, location/direction, wind speed, and that my autopilot is working. :) In that order. The rest is cherries on top.

The service guys I know like Raymarine for its "plug-n-play". I have an older RM C70 chart plotter on a swing arm in my companionway and radar on a pole aft. The C70 gets in the way sometimes. The good: when on autopilot in fog/bad weather, I huddle under the dodger and stay warm, and can watch for boats, course, etc. The bad: when steering, I can't see it from the wheel, but generally don't have to. The rest (AP, Wind, speed, depth) is all old Nexus from PO, but not linked to plotter. I am told that both these transmit/receive NMEA183, but I have yet to try to connect them. The Nexus are back at the wheel so until I get the two systems talking, I have to move about checking wind/depth, adjusting AP, pushing buttons on the plotter. On our previous boat, the wind/depth etc were mounted above the companionway and the plotter/AP at the wheel, and I would do that again if it became a priority, I could see the numbers from the wheel, but rarely had a need to push the buttons once they were set up. OTOH, I like seeing the plotter from the protection of the dodger. It also demands hands-on attention it seems. Hmmm. Back and forth, back and forth, I'm interested in hearing what you decide.
 
When we bought Paragon, she was fitted with a Combi speed & depth unit that was probably state of the art in the mid 70'''s but no longer worked. We decided to install Ray Marine ST-60 speed, depth and wind instruments. We felt that they were a reasonable compromise of performance and value. While I would prefer NMEA 2000, the SeaTalk network allowed some integration with GPS, autopilot an perhaps an integrated nav program via multiplexer and translater.

We mounted the displays side-by-side on the stbd side of the companionway where the old oval Combi was mounted ''' in part to fill the hole and because it was closer to the nav area below. We considered that someone sitting in the cockpit could block view of the displays but it has not been an issue ''' typically when we need to pay attention to the instruments while racing or entering a tight spot, we aren'''t sitting anyway. Displays are large and readable with good backlight. I plan to mount a multifunction graphic display on the steering pedestal so the helmsman can see it easily ''' it will also include GPS info. I don'''t like large displays and pods at the helm ''' I think they interfere with the view and night vision, and make you more dependent on electronics.

As for future additions:
''' Autopilot ''' haven'''t decided on specs
''' VHF ''' will probably replace our old iCom with DSC model with remote mic and speaker in cockpit.
''' Radar ''' I like the new digital models ''' low power draw, instant on, lots of features, good close up resolution at the expense of long range but I'''m more interested in what'''s 10 miles out than 25.
''' GPS ''' still using my trusty handheld Garmin ''' may just wire it into network or use a receiver with integrated system
''' Chartplotter ''' undecided. I'''ve been using iNavX on my iPad ''' some good features but I don'''t like the chart detail and display for coastal areas or ICW. Zooming looses perspective.
''' I will probably use a laptop or tablet with integrated instrument / nav capabilities but need to do more research. However, want to maintain independent functionality in case of electrical / network problems.
''' AIS ''' Good in concept but we used it on last summer'''s Atlantic crossing on my friend'''s Freedom 40. Results were disappointing. Many fishing boats on the Grand Banks did not use it or chose not to turn on their transponders ''' perhaps to protect their favorite spots. Many of the freighters and container ships we met did not put out a signal until we were within 5 miles ''' too late when you are closing at 20 ''' 30 knots. Not sure why they would not broadcast continuously ''' not like power is an issue for them.
 
On my last boat it had all the instruments on the port and starboard companionway cockpit seat bulkheads. Some always sat in front of my depth sounder. !!
So i made round teak plugs for the holes. and moved it all to the helm.
The old grab rail was just to small for more wires.So i purchased a new one 1 1/2 inches the new standard . I was one that angled near the compass forward and than up again. I got the new nav pod and put the depth and GPS there. Every thing at my finger tips.. !
Sure it was work pulling the old grab rail and installing a new one. But all new wires and knowing where every thing went and why was sure piece of mind..
I loved the set up .
 
I've been sailing with a friend who has an inexpensive nav program on his gps equipped samsung pad. He has the noaa & Canadian charts downloaded. It works great and he's got a fraction invested compared to a MFD.
As an ex Navy bosun, he doesn't use an auto pilot/steer to steer to a wapoint very often.

Smart pads & programs are evolving so rapidly one can see a day where they may give these Ray & Garmin multi function systems competition.

I decided not to repair the datamarine mast head device to the tune of $500. When the boat heels & weather helm increases, I reef. I'm wondering why I need to know windspeed & direction when I have my senses?
 
We have been using Navionics very successfully on both our ipad and iphones. The new ipad HD version for Ipad is high resolution...I can see it.
 
i like Garmin , their tech help is just wonderful and they all speak ENGLISH !
I have the GPS 700 seres touch screen and its amazing so easy to use. depth talks to the GPS and auto helm .
Every body gets along.. Sometimes my depth shuts down when power boats wake get to much on the river but the GPS always displays depth..

Lee M 384
 
Xanadu took a lightning bolt in July, so everything was toasted. I like the Garmin options, even though all of the previous equipment was Ray. Also, most was "enima" 0183, and the wiring was at best confusing, and at most a rat's nest. I'll be going to all NMEA 2000 this time.
Chartplotter: GPS 741xs via B150M Thru Hull with CHIRP
AP: GHP 12 Autopilot System Corepack
AP Drive: Raymarine Type I Linear and rudder position transducer
Radar Dome: Garmin GMR 18xHD
Wind: Garmin GND 10
VHF/AIS: Don't know yet
I'll have depth, wind, and AP controls and displays at the helm.
Still planning some of the layout and what to do with the new GPS 740 that wasn't installed during the strike. It won't network in, from what I read (but I might have misinterpreted something), so might use it as the helm GPS, with the 741 at the Nav Station. Will let the board know how things work out.
Rick Noddin, Xanadu, 384 Hull #47
 
Rick Noddin , when i was looking for a newer Garmin
741 was my choice. I was told by west marine i would need a special transducer ! NOT TRUE .
I had a electronics guy install it for me and do all the connections.. he showed me , every Garmin he sells comes with a converter box the size of a pack of cigarettes . This takes airman transducer which worked on old Garmin. I was shocked and for 25 bucks he installed it under my Nav pod. And it works..

My 741 talks to my ray marine depth and ray marine auto pilot.
I have wind instruments but they are separate..
The depth shows on the depth screen and the 741, two places just works for me..
WindRose M 384/ Tarpon Springs fl
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top