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Battery shelf disaster

stnick

stnick

lee nicholas
Had #1 battery go to 11.5 and was 4 years old. AGM 105 Amp type 31. i replaced it.
So i figured while i was doing this , the battery would be out for a while. I tried to slide #2 battery into the number one position.
Boy was I wrong , it fell thru the battery shelf ! Now at a 40 degree slant as the one side is stuck in the hole.
Looks like thin glass over rotted 1/2 inch wood.
Now a remove all batteries and rebuild the shelf job.
I still have like 20 feet of IPE 1x6 spare from the boat rail project. That might be just the ticket !
 
Lee,
You might consider removing the shelf completely. Grind down the tabbing. I did this and now I can fit 4 golf cart batteries into that space. You will have to enlarge the opening on top.
 
20058.jpg

Lee - does it look anything like this mess?
At least you have decent access to work in there. Jose has right, go for 4 GC batts.
Good luck
Dave
 
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My battery went right thru the fist layer of fiberglass and than thru the 1/2 inch wood below. the wood is all black and rotten.
I'll clean it all out and do a IPE shelf with air to below.So my idea is a slatted shelf like a mini deck.
 
I learned that wet batteries should be in plastic boxes, secured, and terminals protected.
Jim
 
Lee - When Pilgrim arrived in Beaufort I discovered similar issues.

This inspired me to completely redo area under the quaterberth locker.

I am expanding the house bank to six, 6V batteries and placing it under the seat forward of the galley sinks.

I split the area originally dedicated to battery storage onto four compartments.
I relocated the engine raw water thru hull and strainer to the aft, midline compartment.
The starter battery is located in the forward, midline compartment.
The two outboard compartments are for storage.


20060.jpg

storage



20061.jpg

deck


I have not yet completed the installation of the house bank.

More notes and images from the project are available in our on line photo album... https://plus.google.com/photos/105725086102693499228/albums/5974695471362631265
 
Wow you sure do like to change it all up !
Just the rotten floor of the battery compartment is my project ! i do not wish further work.
The compartment in front of my sinks already has the air conditioner and heat. Sure is nice for ac on a project here in fla and heat in the winter mornings.
I have a list of stuff to do and this just came up in the middle, of it all.
Anchor locker , water heater,water filter system, Battery monitor system. some electrical panel issues.. !
I just want to go sailinggggggg !
 
Lee, Be sure to check the condition of the vertical wall that separates the battery compartment from the engine compartment. On Pilgrim the lower 4" of this wall were damaged.

I cut away the damaged section and replaced it with new 1/2" plywood.

Jeff
 
Yes i have the same damage. that engine compartment wall. there would seem to be a air slot like 3 inches long and three quarters of a inch wide. looks like the rot started here.
I'll cut it out west epoxy a piece of wood in place and glass the bottom 6 inches.
Looks like the PO never used battery boxes. I'm a believer in them. No spill no mess. I have 3 AGM 105 amps type 31.All sealed.
 
I have patched the Rotted engine compartment wall 1/2 inch plywood coated with resin all sides. dried hard and used as a hole patch. Used West X10 in a tube very Great stuff.
Now for making a pattern for the new floor.
I'm thinking door skins and a glue gun ! Like i did for counter top pattern on my Sabre.
Ya make strips of door skin like 2 inches wide and glue them together with a glue gun around the edges to get a exact pattern. Very light very fragile but exact pattern. !
I'm doing this all thru the old hole of the battery locker. Hope i can do one piece ? if not i'll glass it in place with two .
 
Jeff,
I like your "design for service-ability" and engineering skills. About your battery relocation to the floor locker fwd of the galley sink - Did you happen to do any calculations in regards to righting moment and trim changes? I am at the beginning of a significant repair of Xanadu (384 hull #47), and thought about that alteration. I remember several articles about davits and dinghy/outboard, etc., loads causing "excessive" positive trim angles. I wonder how much the trim will be reduced
 
Rick, Thanks. Would like to hear more about your project(s) on Xanadu.

I did not do any righting moment or trim calculations prior to moving the battery bank.

If I were moving the battery bank (or other similarly heavy object)from low in the center of the vessel outboard or towards the ends of the vessel I would have more hesitation. I do not believe moving the bank from under the quarterberth to a lower & more center line position on the vessel will negatively effect the trim or righting moment.

We have closed off the quaterberth with a backrest at the nav station and plan to use the area for storage (spare parts, inflatable paddle boards, off season clothes, etc.) If necessary I feel sure we can adjust the contents of the storage area to correct any trim alterations caused by moving the battery bank.

In my opinion, adding dinghy davits to the stern or multiple long chain anchor rodes to the the forward locker is a very different beast than moving the batteries from the quarterberth to a position low and centerline.

I am very leery of adding weight at the ends of the vessel. We do not plan to add dinghy davits to the stern and plan to carry 100+ feet of chain on the primary anchor only. The secondary anchor is a Fortress with a short section of chain then rope.

Jeff
 
I agree with keeping weight of the ends of the boat as much as possible. I believe his choice for the batteries is one of the two places on the boat that is suitable. I have attached pictures of my setup. The floor was rotted from acid that the PO had allowed to leak. I ground off all the tabbing to the shelf. I then glassed 1x1" wood pieces to outline the plastic battery boxes.

20069.jpg

Batteries


And off topic, the new engine is finally running...
20070.jpg

Volvo D2-40
 
Jeff and Jose,
Sound reasoning on your parts. It's pretty well known as a best practice to keep the weight centered and low in the boat. But we can't put it all there without making a really weird interior layout, ha ha! I was only wondering if you had any numbers to share. We know that the change in location is beneficial, but I was curious as to how much. It would be relatively easy to estimate the change in moments by shifting the batteries to the settee area. Does anybody know offhand where the center of buoyancy of a 384 is located?
Sweet looking engine compartment, Jose - nice work!
 
Jose , you did a beautiful job with your batteries .
What kind are they ?
You could eat off that engine !! I'm impressed.
Are you for hire ?? LOL
 
Lee, it took me a year and a half to install the engine. You still want to hire me?
I live 60 miles away from the boat and I only worked on Saturdays....

The batteries are Lifeline AGM's they are sized CG2 I think. After 6 years and major abuse, They need replacing. I found a golf cart sales/repair business that will sell me TROJANS T105 for $120 a piece. I will be giving them a try. They are much better than the $85 cheapos from SAMS.
 
The new battery shelf is in place and has mat with two coats of Fiberglass coatings epoxy a one to one mixture so easy. One quart of epoxy to one quart hardener.. easy.
have the mixture wetted the mat and let dry than light sanding and the last half over top . nice and smooth now very strong..
By the end of the week time to put the batteries back and all the connections.. so much fun...
 
Nice work , are the batteries under this plywood shelf ?
Or is this the compartment to the stern of the battery locker?
 
Hi John:
Gotta love the compactness and light weight of your 4 100-AH batteries.

Looks good. I recognize many of the components on the board -
- What are the two contactors controlled by?
- What is the box on the left next to the contactor - electronics package for a battery monitor?
- What's the rating on the big fuse on the negative side?
- What's the smaller fuse on the positive wire (between the two terminal strips)?
- Do you have a schematic of your system?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm trying to plan out our wiring renovation and every time I see photos of others' projects, it makes me pause and rethink things.

-Alan
 
John,
The engine came that way, It has a 115A alternator.
Do you still have the Perkins 4108? If so I have a two belt front pulley that I was going to use. Also have a hammer wrench needed to remove the pulley. Let me know if you are interested in them. Otherwise they will go on EBAY. In order to set up a two V-belt system you also have to modify or make a new fresh water pump pulley.

Among other parts from the old engine I also have a 120A Ample Power alternator, an Ample power smart regulator, and a Hurth HBW10-2R gear.

Regards,
Jose
 
Hi Jose:
Since John asked first, he gets first shot at your pulley. If he's not interested, I may be. How was it set up - double belt pulleys on the crankshaft, water pump and alternator? Do you have all three?
I'm using stock 60-Amp automotive alternator now. I have an 80-Amp Leese-Neville alternator I planned to install - it's probably the largest I can practically run with a single belt.
I'd like to use a larger alternator and smart regulator to reduce engine run-time.
Please let me know what you want for your pulleys, alternator, and regulator. If you like you can contact me off list at acshedd(at)mindspring(dot)com
Thanks.
-Alan
 
Alan,
The entire system was sourced from Elite Power Systems, Tempe AZ.
Their site has installation and operational manuals. They are primarily focused on electric vehicles. I will called everything including the batteries at their Arizona location.
The Gigavolt contactors are low voltage and high voltage relays. controlled by the box next to the contactors (EMS computer)The contactors were sourced from E-bay
The large fuse on the negative is a Busman Class JJN 200amp with a 200,000 amp interrupting rating. Generally they can clear anything that utility companies can deliver on the AC grid.
The smaller fuses are part of the EMS system.
 
On larger alternators. On my Perkins 4-108, I run a Balmar 100 amp with a Balmar smart regulator. I skilled boat electrician counseled that I detune the alternator (with the Balmar regulator) down to 70 or 80 percent (can't remember which; it is on the program on the boat. He did that to protect engine bearings and such.

I trusted him and did it. I have plenty of recharging capacity even with the reduction.
 
Terry,,
With a single belt 80A is about all you can get without a issue with belt dust and/or excessive belt tension. With two belts you can go to about 150A. Granted the full alternator output is only needed for a short time during the initial bulk charge phase, once the voltage reaches 14.4 then the output current will gradually reduce until it is aprox 10% of your battery banks amp-hour rating (40A for a 400 A-hr bank). When this is achieved the output voltage will then be reduced to 13.4(float).
The Balmar smart regulator has a BELT-Saver feature that will back off on the charging current thus reducing the load on the belt. This is what your electrician did, which is a good thing if you only have one belt.
Another thing to keep in mind is the output charge curve of the alternator and your pulley ratios. You need to keep alternator(and engine) RPM high enough for the internal cooling fan to work effectively and to get maximum output current.

As far as my power takeoff, I had originally intended to drive an engine driven water maker. If all you want is alternator belt operation you have to make or modify the fresh water pump pulley and also get a two belt alternator pulley.
 
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