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Anchor Well

L

lenz

LenZuza
In looking at a string of posts from the old site, I noted several comments about anchors and the anchor well. The comment that caught my attention was one that strongly advised sealing the anchor well to prevent its filling with water in high seas. I have recently acquired a 38-3 that I am getting ready for serious cruising in the enxt two to three years.

My boat has a relatively shallow anchor well with a hinged door. The rode passes through small notches between the forward sections of the door and the deck. This arrangement is undesireable because it is limited in how much ground tackle it can hold, allows a lot of water to enter, and does not drain quickly (I spent last weekend reglassing the well both to improve drainage to the small weep holes on either side of the well and to stop a leak into the v-berth).

This string raised several questions relating to the anchor well and anchors:

1. Is this the typical configuration for a 38-3?

2. How does one seal the anchor well in such a way that it can be made useable again quickly if I need rapid access to the ground tackle?

3. How can one seal the well when the rode passes through an opening between the door and deck?

4. Is there an acceptable way to reconfigure the well so that I can stow an extra anchor and rode in the well or allow the rode(s) to pass deeper into the hull?
 
I have a morgan 382 with the same type of anchor well you mentioned. It is a separate locker from the one below. In my top locker I store 200' of 5/16 chain along with an additional 200' of rode. I also keep my dock lines and wrench handle there. It is much larger than it appears.

I am very concerned about tying into the locker below because of the leak problem. Therefore, I installed a vertical windlass on deck where the chain feeds around the top of the windlass and I layer it into the locker. It would make it difficult to single hand but I don't single hand. This way I never have to be concerned about the rode getting caught up in the chain pipe when lowering or raising the anchor.

It is difficult for me to believe that the small hole at the front of the lid could allow that much water into it while cruising. It appears as long as there is a hatch on the lid and a rag
 
To complete my above comments: If there is a secured latch on the anchor door and a rag on the chain going into the locker it appears to be pretty well sealed.
 
Also look at pictures on the home page - there's several of us that have successfully accessed the locker below.
 
The sealing I was describing was not the doors or door, but rather the bulkhead between the anchor well and the vee-berth. If the upper anchor well gets water in it and the boat heels or pitches, water can enter the vee-berth.
 
Have you sealed completely the wire channel in the uppermost corners of the bulkhead? They're not easy to reach, but once sealed, even with the upper anchor locker full of water, it shouldn't leak back into the boat.
I experienced the leaks during my 4-day Force 8 gale enroute to Portugal. With the boat healed, I had water streaming in, running along the ceiling and down the wall back at the v-berth bulkhead. I sealed it best I could once in Spain. I used silicon which ended up not doing it. Got some more leaking later. Cleaned it out and sealed it with a golf ball size of epoxy with filler and smeared it back in the corner and faired it out.
Then the test came, during the real doozy Force 10 in the Golfe de Lion off the coast of France, no more water.
Of course someone is going to say - how do access the wires - you don't. I'll have to redrill...but it's dry.
Good luck.
 
Hi Folks

I am considering eliminating the on-deck anchor locker; adding a stringer and glassing over it.

I would add a chain pipe to allow the chain to be stowed lower in the hull. I am also planning on adding a windlass.

I think I will end up with a cleaner foredeck; a lower center of gravity; and a tighter ship.

Has anybody done anything like this and are there pros or cons I should consider.

Ed Nelson
Morgan 382 1979
formerly Agape and Blue Away
(new name pending)
 
Ed,

I have never seen a 382 up close and personal, but my 384 does not have a deck anchor locker. I have a windless mounted on deck, it deposits the anchor chain and line directly down into the locker. I can access the chain locker from the V berth. I have been playing with the idea of splitting the locker (it is very large) for another anchor line. We don't anchor much so it has not been a priority.
Forward of my windless I do have a storage area for the deck wash hose. It is accessed on deck by removing a plastic treaded cap.
So I guess this might be one of the improvements ( matter of opinion I am sure) that were made at least on the 384.

John
 
Ed, if you eliminate that locker you are going to lose the storage space for a second and/or third anchor & rode. A number of owners have mounted thier windlasses aft of the deck locker and routed the chain into the chain locker under the deck locker via a chain pipe on a 45 degree angle. Check the Archives, there has been alot of discussion on this topic. There are some photos of installations in the gallery.

Jim
 
Appreciate the advice. The pictures and the discussions in the archives provide some good information. I think I will move slowly on this to make sure I get it right.

Ed
 
Dick, I just installed a windlass on my 1980 Morgan 382. The chain/rode now goes into the anchor locker located forward of the V berth. I plan to go to all chain, as the road has to be hand fed into the hawse pipe. I would like to see any pictures of an anchor locker with a dam. In addition, I currently have 60' of chain and 300' of road. The chain starts piling up on the road and I have to go below to clear it below the pipe. Anyone - how much 5/16 chain can be put in to the locker before decastling is necessary?
 
Dave
Check the photo gallery under 382's/Dana. There are a number of photos of Dana's installation including the cofferdam. I'll be glad to anwser any questions.

Jim
 
Dave: I carry about 200 feet of 5/16 high test chain. I have to help it feed in by knocking down the castles after 150 fee or so. I do not have a dam like Jim Cleary and I tend to anchor in fairly deep water, so I am not sure that is a solution for me. An alternative is to rebuild part of the upper rode locker so the chain has higher to pile up, but that is a major project and might not work anyway.
 
I have 150ft of chain with 300 rode attached. I don't think rebuilding the anchor well is going to do a thing. The weight of the chain below the pipe is what keeps it feeding nicely. I too have to knock over the castle for the last 15 ft which is often pretty annoying because it means I'm adrift. Being single hand, that tends to be annoying in a blow. If I may suggest, knock over the pile early and spread the chain in the well to give the arriving chain more depth so that it's weight will continue to help it feed.
I had wondered once about opening a large hole in the lower part of the bulkhead to let excess chain sit down under the locker - I never went thru with it due to the structural strength there, but I still think a quasi semi-circle to open it up would not affect the bow strength really. Someone else on the board at one point said that they fed their excess chain down that gulley to distribute the weight - you guys remember that from about 2.5 yrs ago... maybe that skipper could shed some light on that.

Here comes the spring and let's get our those sanders! Here we go...
 
Dave, Tony & Terry
In the photos you will notice a hawse pipe in the bottom of the on deck anchor well. Even with only 90', of a total of 250', of 5/16" G4 chain directly below the chain pipe I still have to knock down the pile as it comes on board. That hawse pipe and a piece of 1" x 1" oak allows me to do it without much extra effort. I singlehand quite often and rarely have trouble. If it's blowing good and it's a tight anchorage, I'll get underway and wait till I get to an open space to finish bringing the rest of the gear on board. Since most of my anchoring is done in relatively shallow water, the cofferdamn works great for me.
 
Ah, that is the problem. When I am alone, which is not infrequent, and it is blowing good in a tight anchorage, I occasionally have difficutly getting the anchor up and getting out. I cannot pull the boat against a heavy blow with the windlass alone, so I need to be able to control the power at the same time as I bring in the chain. I thought of installing a remote control so I can use the windlass from the cockpit, but that doesn't work if the chain jams because it gets caught in the hause pipe. I still have to go forward to clear it. And, of course, if you get the anchor almost up, but not quite, you drag back. Maybe there is a seamanlike way to do this, rather than running from cockpit to foredeck, and I sure would like to hear it.
 
Terry
I installed a remote control outlet in the cockpit just for that windy day in a tight spot. The one time I used it I worked the foredeck until the chain was just about straight up and down with the anchor still holding. Before heading for the cockpit I made sure the chain in the locker was knocked down leaving room for the 25' of outstanding chain. Putting the boat in gear I drove over the anchor to break it out and continued up wind bringing the chain slowly on board. The anchor was left submerged to prevent it from banging the hull as I slowly left the harbor. Once out and clear of other boats the boat was allowed to drift while I went forward again to bring the anchor on board and secure it. The system worked fine. Two problems experienced were that its hard to see whats going on on the foredeck from the helm and alot of the anchored boats were yelling to let me know that I forgot to bring up my anchor. Having the remote switch at the helm, though rarely used, helps keep the adrenaline from pumping overtime in those tight spots. I'd recommend it.

Jim
 
Jim, I've looked at the picture of your cofferdamn and it looks like a pan. Is that correct? Is it glassed in? Dave
 
Dave
The cofferdam is made of "sanalite" which is a cutting board like material similar to "Starboard". It's 1/2" thick and very strong. The construction is basically two triangle shaped pieces held apart by 6" spacers also made from the sanalite. The aft most triangle rests against the inside of the bulkhead dividing the locker from the V-berth. The other triangle is then 6" forward of that. The chain pipe which angles into the locker dumps the chain into that 6" wide bin. That space holds 90' of G4 5/16" chain with the need for only an occasional knocking down of the pile. Forward of the 6" wide bin is the remainder of the 160' of chain that rarely gets used. If I do use the chain in the forward bin then it has to be reloaded from below as it comes back on board. Definately a two person job unless you have the handheld remote to control the windlass. With the handheld I can work the machine from the v-bunk and pile chain at the same time. The cofferdam is not glassed in but could be. It could also be made out marine ply. The system works for me in the places we sail (Long Island Sound and points east). I hope this helps you. Please don't hesitate to ask for more.

Jim
 
Jim - 1. Are the spacers attached at each of the three ends of the triangles? 2. How wide are the spacers? 3. Am I correct in assuming that there are no side pieces? Thanks for the information. Would you mind e-mailing me your phone #? I would like to speak with you. My e-mail address is LockmanD@AutoNation.com. Thank you.

Dave
 
The information that Dave is looking for is: with the factory installed one level v-bunk arrangement, how can he access the locker where the lead ingots are glassed in? My 1978 382 had the split level v-bunk and access to the lead locker was at the foot of the lower berth. Has anyone with the one level bunk removed the lead?

Jim
 
I haven't removed it yet, but I have located it. It is between the forward water tank, if you have one, and a small, pie shaped, locker at the in most forward end of the V-berth. There isn't an opening to the lead so you will need to cut one yourself. To locate it, measure forward from the forward end of the bow tank locker and aft from the pie shaped locker. The area between, you should find lead ballast.

Hope this helps.

Jay
 
Jay
If you have the one level bunk, to be able to work at removing the lead from that locker would you have to hang upside down from the level of the bunk or could you get inside the the locker above the lead to work? With the split level bunk I was able to lay comfortably on the lower bunk and it was still a damn hard job. Hey! are you guys coming back up this way again?

Jim
 
Jim. Yes, I should be able to get to it while laying prostrate in the bunk. Yes, we do plan on returning to LIS. Not sure when we will be able to make it. Most likely, it will be summer of 2005 after Elaine finishes her masters degree. We really enjoyed cruising Long Island. Hope all is well with you and Bonnie.

Jay

 
Jay
Bet that was not the nicest job you've ever had on board. We may get to visit you before your return trip. Bonnie and I are giving some hard thought to a Chesapeake journey in early fall of 2004. We'll keep you posted. Say hello to Elaine.

Jim
 
to renew an old subject --- the lead ballast in the bottom forward locker in the V berth. Old posts have talked of this factory added weight to ballance the M382. Since I added a large bow sprit years ago, I do not need this extra lead. once acess is gained to the area, I used an air driven power chisel to break up the resin holding the lead in place. only took an hour or so to remove all 60, yes 60, round lead pigs - I guessed them to be 5 lbs each. at home I weighed 3 of the to get an average weight, 3 weigh 17 lbs, that means 60 weigh 340 lbs, plus the bucket full of resin means windwalker just got 350 lbs lighter in the bow. this will go a long way in compensating for the bow sprit, 2 anchors, 2 chain anchor rodes ( 50ft & 100ft ).
hope this is of some use to someone
 
Vaughan
I love the air chisel idea. I removed my lead with a hammer and hand chisel and it took three days. I think Mr. Brewer designed the boats to carry 300 lbs of ground tackle up on the bow. Without that equipment the bow was too light and Morgan added the lead.
 
Discussions on trim are always interesting. I don't have a point to make, this is just an observation.
Southerly has the original lead at the bow. We added the extra anchor roller on starboard. We carry a 30 lb Danforth, a 35 lb. plow, 30 feet of chain on 150 feet of 5/8 line, and 70 feet of chain on another 150 feet of 5/8 line. That's a lot of weight at the bow. In theory, you should never load the ends of a boat with weight. Weight belongs in the center. Sitting at anchor, Southerly sits higher at the bow then the stern, according to the factory waterline.
However, when sailing the bow lowers and digs in, and there is no hobby horseing. As I said, it's just an observation. I tend to go with what ever works.
Larry
 
Like Larry I don't have a point to make, but my 384 has a double anchor roller, we only carry a 35# plow and 50 ft of chain. I have noticed Valdaree sails much better with the forward water tank filled. I do get a little more hobby horsing effect in chop when the tank is empty.

John
 
The business about weight in the ends of the boat is explained by "radius of gyration"; even its name is kind of intuitively obvious. I think it's fair to say any discussions about trim are only fair when the boat is considered with the cockpit full of its "normal crew complement". One person changing their weight about the boat is as much an effect as this trim weight (Okay, maybe two people moving about) but if eveyone is in the cockpit when the boat is going, then that is when the trim should be accounted or. Maybe the lead should stay? But then that means weight in the ends. Should all the folks just stay below, and then we can jettison then pigs? Just messing with this idea, sorry.

I was shocked when I discovered the pile of pigs in M382 hull number 002-- the designers/builders must have figured it out quick! (we have no fwd water tank.)I left it in, and everything feels right until a party starts in the cockpit-- then the helmsman's feet get wet!
 
Carl, all true. But notice how the boat falls right into trim when you fill the head sail.
I have always been taught to keep the weight out of the ends. I think that's pretty standard thinking. On most of the other boats that I have owned or sailed on you could notice the difference in how the boat sailed by moving weight from the ends to the middle. However, in difference, what I have noticed on the M382 is that the adjusted amount of headsail is what determines the trim and comfort of the ride at any particular time.
 
Just to add to the ballant story, I found 20 hexagonal lead pucks outboard of the water heater on my 1980 M382, they had made a nice woodden cover for it. This happened while replacing the water heater. I have removed the lead, four hours of hard chissel work.

 
We accessed the empty space under the food locker, next to the water heater and installed a removable bottom/outboard wall a few years ago for additional storage, but did not remember any box or floor in the area - checked today, nothing next to or under our heater. ( M382 #130)
the space is fairly large and holds many beers if placed in a mesh bag so they can not go adrift under the flooring.
 
Hi my name is Bill Beach. I live in Dallas and am looking for a Morgan 38, preferably on the East Coast or Gulf. Any help with resources will be appreciated. I want to join you guys with my own Morgan. Smooth Sailing, Bill.
 
I too have discovered the lead pigs glassed into the forepeak area. I found them under the vee berth about 2 feet aft of the forward (chain locker) bulkhead. There was a 1' x 1' hatch that had been screwed down. I chipped them out yesterday - there were 60 of them. They are octagonal in shape and had been set in a polyester resin glob. Each one weighed about 4.5 lbs. So with the resin I estimate about 300 lbs total. I plan to store chain in the now empty locker.


My wife Janet and I plan to do some offshore sailing and I plan to load up about 225' of 5/16 chain, a 45lb CQR anchor and a Lofrans windlass. All of which will weigh about 350lb.

By the way I just purchased Wanderlust (Hull #101) from Ed Bruenjes in Danvers Mass. The transaction was a pleasure since Ed was so helpful. The boat was beautifully maintained by Ed and his wife Linda over the past 22 years. I had it shipped to Friday Harbor WA and it not sits at her mooring in Griffin Bay.

John
 
John & Janet
Congratulations on your new boat. Welcome to the Morgan board. As you did with the lead in the bow, you'll always find helpful information here. Putting an all chain rode on the CQR is a very good thing. You'll sleep very well when at anchor. We look forward to hearing about Wanderlust's future journeys.

Jim & Bonnie Cleary
 
John & Janet,

Contratulations on the new boat! Can you tell me what was involved in shipping to the West Coast and maybe approximate cost?

Norm.

 
Jim and Norm,

Thanks for the warm welcome. This message board is one of the many things that sold me on the Morgan. The archives are really amazing.

I went with A-1 Boat Transport (800-792-1118) out of Texas. The price was $7500 with no fuel surcharge. It was thousands less than anyone else I found. It took about 7 days to get here. Since the Morgan is exactly 12 feet wide no lead cars were needed. As I undersatnd it the price really jumps if your over 12'. We left the pulpits up and there was no problem with height. Except for the bug bodies smashed over every forward facing surface the boat was in perfect condition when it arrived. Yard fees on either end were about $500 but I used the oportunity to paint the bottom and there was a a few nights in the yard at danvers while we waited for the truck to arrive.

My new windlass will arrive in a few days and I will begin the installation this weekend. I plan to remove the teak hatch doors on the deck and permanently seal off the forward chain locker. I will lead the chain down below through a hole in the deck. Has anyone done this before? What did you use to replace the doors?

John
 
John
If you look back in the archives, you'll find many discussions about the anchor well and the installation of a windlass. Keeping the anchor locker and placing the windlass aft of the locker with a hawse pipe that leads the chain forward to the space below the locker is a option. This leaves you with an on deck place to stow a second and/or third anchor and rode that is always at the ready. If you look through the photo gallery, you'll find photos of different installations.

Jim
 
More on the anchor locker. various threads in this area speak of the danger of taking water into the V berth area from the upper foredeck anchor locker via the unsealed area on both sides under the toe rail - the area looks to be maybe 4x6 inches and could ship water if healed and sticking the bow into steep waves.

I am thinking of sealing this gap with "Great Stuff" spray expanding poly foam from Home Depot. Any comments or suggestions before I procede???
 
I don't believe this material is water-proof. I used a plastic material and glassed and sealed over with 3M 5200. The entire transverse interface between these two areas should be glassed and sealed as well. This adds considerable strength to the foredeck. Any windlass added must be re-inforced on the underside of the deck. I used 1/4" stainless from port to stbd. and the windlass bolts through it.
Jim

 
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