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Anchor weight

H

hansedgar

Hans-Edgar A. Haugen
I am in the process of mounting my new (Quick Hector Windlass, 1000w)and have to make the stb. bow roller. The size (length) has to be adjusted to the anchor, (Wich I have not purchased yet)! But I am going to use the Manson Supreme as my primary anchor. So; The question, honoured Morganites,is, what size of either the 45#- or the 60# anchor?
From my experience (crabbing) in the Bering Sea, I am leaning toward the 60#.
Also, I read in a previous thred re.length of cable from windlass to batteries. If my memory serves me right, there was a length of 70' used with only 6' to spare! I am not able to "see" the routing used, from windlass to batteries, using so much cable!
Awaiting your expert advice, gentlemen.
Hans-Edgar
 
Hans
Could you take photos of the process? I am wanting to do the same thing and it would be great to see a step by step of your progress.
 
Regarding the 70 feet - remember, you need to go ROUND TRIP from battery positive to battery negative when measuring distance of appliance from power source. So the 70' less 6' (64 feet) is 32 feet from battery to windlass.
Matt
 
Hans-Edger: Matt has given you the answer I think. When I did mine Ithink a got 100ft of 0 welding cable, it is much morre flexable.

Dick
 
Given the high but short-duration current draw of devices like the windlass, I'd consider placing a battery in a convenient place closer to the windlass that can provide high current thru short wires and run smaller-guage wire from this battery to the main bank and alternator. Could result in significant wire savings though no weight savings. (Running two 0 or 00 welding cables forward could be tough. I'd think you'd want to run them close together or even better wrap them around each other to help cancel the big magnetic field that driving lots of amps thru the wire will create.) The forward battery would increase the total ampacity of the electrical system and be useful for lower-amperage, longer term draws throughoutthe boat. If you primarily used this battery for the windlass and not for deep cycle use, it might work to use a starting battery for this duty - high current output then rapid recharge - in most cases you'd be likely to be running the engine while you raise anchor and leave the anchorage allowing the battery to recharge.
Any thoughts?
-Alan
 
That is, in my opinion, not workable! Many articles have been written about reasons not to do that. I will research but I not not in favor of this idea.

One negative is charging and maintenance of this remote battery. Another is size and weight and ability to do the job in a tough situation!

I just see many issues with placing a remote battery to far from the main battery bank.
Jim
 
I ran 00 cable from the bow to the house bank. I always run the engine when using the windlass (Maxwell VW 1200).

On Oconee I installed "foot switches" and a socket in the cockpit and bow to operate a hand held switch. This allows me when the bottom is muddy to stand further forward and wash down the anchor chain as it come aboard. Being able to pull the anchor from the cockpit in an emergency when I really need to be at the wheel is a comfort.

I also placed a block on the bow to use as a turning block and with long halyard can use the windless to pull my fat ass up the mast.

Anchors...and I'm gonna' offend some. I've used most of the popular anchors. The CQR and Bruce work well in mud and soft sand. In grass or sand over coral (like the Bahamas) can be a real problem. The CQR skips like a rock. The Bruce sets but gradually and will set you up for a real "surprise" usually at 2:00 AM and will pull out clumps of sand and grass. The Danforth works fairly well but can not stand drastic wind shifts.

During my first trip to the Bahamas I used a 66 pound Bruce and 35 pound Danforth HT. For my second and third trips I switched to a 44 pound Rocna and the 35HT. In 2 years I have not found a bottom the Rocna would not set and set well.

Short story..

My first trip south I dropped my 66 bruce in the deep grass and sand off Dinner Cay. Result it pulled out in clumps. Same experience but much worse in a 30 knot 3 day gale anchored in Frazer Hog (the Danforth saved my ass). Next year I purposefully drop the Rocna in the deep grass at Dinner Cay just to see what it would do. Then grabbed a mask, slipped over the side and the Rocna was buried to the rollbar. In 2 years of cruising with the Rocna I have not found a bottom it rejected.

Manson is a similar design. I cruised with a couple that used the 60 pound Manson and it works as well as the Rocna in my opinion.

Fairwinds and Rum Drinks,

Vic
 
Hans-Edgar -

I have "used" a Manson Supreme, #45, on Shepherd's Star. I put used in quotes b/c I have not yet actually used the anchor for what it was designed for (anchoring), as I don't have a windlass installed yet, and I boat in mooring and dock-infested areas (LI Sound).

My advice - be sure the bow roller is designed for a Manson Supreme - with the bow roller I have, my anchor partially covers up the forward running lights on the port side, and some damage was done the first year from rough waters to the running light. As a result, the anchor is now trussed up like a Christmas turkey with 1/4" line. Not the best thing if I need the anchor in a hurry, but I try not to get into situations where I need to do an emergency anchoring - and I always carry a knife with me, so if I need to free the anchor quickly, it can be done.

The project of replacing the bow roller and installing a SeaTiger 555 manual windlass is slated for this winter.
 
I believe the best anchor to deploy in an emergency is a lightweight stern pulpit mounted Fortress. If you set it up properly, you can deploy while still steering the boat. I have used it twice coming into a harbor when the engine quit. Worked perfectly!

When you decide on a bow anchor(s), I would have a marine fabricator design and build one specific to your anchors and boat. You have to remember there is a LOT of downward force when you attempt to pull an anchor off the bottom. The further away from the bow the roller extends, the greater the fulcrum or bending moment. Buying one out of a catalog is not a good idea.
Jim

17163.jpg

Anchor Setup
 
Thanx mates!
John: Pictures will be taken!
And thanks to you Matt, i am going to West Marine, right next to Turner Marina, and by the Manson Supreme, but I am still unsure regarding weights! I am leaning towards the 60#.
I am glad you wrote about your thoughts on anchors,Vic, always good to read about your experience with matters that concern us that are new to sailing!
 
Hans,

Matt has a good point the anchors will partially cover the bow light. I moved mine on Oconee from the normal position next to the anchor to a mount I made for it from a piece of teak that was attached to the pulpit above the anchors...no more problem.

Vic
 
Vic;
Where did you by the 00 cable?, and Matt: what bowroller du you sugest? The new one will be on the starboard bow. On the back cover page on July Lats and Ats,a Manson ad. claims that the MSupr. is "made to comform to all standard bow roller fittings"!
And last: I need some sugestions as to what battery company and make allows me to get apr. 450-500 Amps under the quarter berth!
By the way; I have decided on a 45# MSupreme anchor!

Hans-Edgar
 
I have "used" the bowroller that came with the boat (again, in quotes b/c I have yet to actually use the ground tackle). I found that the Manson did fit on the bow roller, but I needed to lash it in place using two or three short cords, b/c the anchor head swinging might have gouged the topsides at the bow. If/when I concentrate all my attention on the bow, I'm going to put on a bow roller that will keep the Manson tip away from the topsides. God help me if I ever need to engage the anchor under very rough conditions - the state of the bow topsides will be the least of my worries!

With a Sea Tiger manual windlass to install, a bow pulpit to repair, and some cosmetic work to the caprail, I'm thinking next winter is going to be busy! I thought long and hard about putting in an electric windlass, but finally opted for buying a used manual for several reasons - cost, safety, lack of need to put more wiring on the boat, infrequency of use, stubborn refusal to accept the fact that I'm getting older and soon won't have the energy to haul up the ground tackle without electrical assistance, etc.

450 to 500 amps under the quarter berth --- That's a lot of amps just to use for a windlass (all of 3-4 minutes, once a day). You may want to consider using the windlass only when the engine is running, so you won't need to have such a large battery bank.
 
Bow rollers are very important and on the Morgan it is very difficult, if not impossible, to secure it correctly and have it be able to withstand forces placed on it, both upward by waves or down with weight of extracting from the bottom and anchor/chain. The forces/weight are great!

Simply bolting through the cap rail is ineffective in my opinion.
Jim
 
Hans,

I use 4 6volts in series and parallel that total 440 amp hours. They will fit under the quarter berth in the battery compartment that came with the boat.

I placed a group 27 AGM next to the bulkhead just aft of the battery compartment. I use it as a spare in case I do something stupid with the house bank.

I purchased my wire local at Ace Marine Hardware in Morehead City.

By the way, my next set of batteries will be AGMs. They charge faster and and more completely when on solar of wind. While they don't have quite the amp-hour capacity of lead acid they have more usable capacity.

Vic
 
Assuming that the wet batteries are properly maintained, the bang for the buck is the same, that is to say AGM will last twice as long as wet batteries but they will cost twice as much. The AGM batteries do not need maintenance ( water). The one thing that is so good about AGM is that if they are submersed in salt water they will not produce chlorine gas unlike the wet cells.
 
Anchor Size: 60 is overkill, unless you intend to anchor in very rough conditions. 45 is what I use, and I am conservative in anchoring. I also have to say that 1,000 watts seems a little small for the windlass, but perhaps it is fine if you use rope rode. I use all chain and a 45 lb Delta, with a 45 lb CQR as the backup.
 
Terry,
I have desided on a 45# Manson Supreme and I am looking for a bow roller to match. Any sugestions?
I was thinking having 200' 5/16 HT chain on that Manson anchor and rode and 75' chain on the secondary anchor. How much chain do you suggest i have on the Manson Supreme? Sorry to hear my new windlass is to small!I was told by the sails person it was adequat. Well,to late now!
We are 3 boats bound for Rio Dulce at the end of the hurricane season, and I am in the prosess of outfitting my Morgan! Will start on the windlass in about 3 weeks. The Icom 802 is allready installed. Maybee i'll see some of you guys down there to!
Hans-Edgar
 
Your windlass is okay I believe. Use the weight of the vessel to break it loose. 200 ft. Is a good length of chain. Sometimes it doesn't flake and will pile. My advice as I said, go with a custom built bow roller.

Jim
 
Hans-Edgar: I run 220 feet of 5/16" HT chain on the primary anchor. That limits the depth I can anchor in, of course. I carry another 120 feet of line to attach to that in deeper water, but have only done that once. the secondard anchor has 45 feet of chain and 300 feet of line.

Chain will not self stow, as Jim says. You have to be able to reach down into the lower chain locker and knock the piles down. Unless you rebuild the chain locker, which I have on my list of things to do, but have not done.

Lucky you to go South.
 
I just bought a 45# Manson S. from Westmarine to day! Price adjusted toDefender's price. To morrow a call to Navimo USA for the "Manson bow roller" is due, 595.00$ plus shipping, mind you! No, on second thought, I'll wait to call after maybe getting some input from you guys first regarding a different "track! . Maybe I can thereby save some money! Heaven knows it is going out faster than it is coming in to my coffers!
Fair winds
Hans-Edgar
 
Honoured Morganites!
The Manson S. 45#'der should be here at Turner over the weekend and 200' of chain about the same time! The question I have before mounting the windlass is; have any of you mounted the windlass inside the upper chain locker? The bow roller will be made by a reputable company here in Mobile. The one Plastimo recomended, is made in Australia, costs ca. 560$, plus freight!
Also; a Raytheon Pathfinder RL70 Radar/Raychart is onboard, wich is now obsolite, and I need those "chips" to insert,showing the Caribbean charts! Any sugestions where I can buy these? At this time it is out of the question to upgrade!
 
I think most of us have the windlass mounted just aft of the locker, with a pipe or something dropping directly into the lower locker. that means you can still use the upper locker for extra line rode, etc. Also, since my windlass is vertical,not horizontal, I don't know how I would lead the rode to it. good luck.
 
Yes Jim! I agree totaly! My years as a crabber, sitting in the wheelhouse, in the Bering Sea tought me that! I had a master ticket, all ocean 1600t fishing 500t inspected.
I still might go with the windlass aft of the locker, as I have seen some of you have done. I just did not like the idea of a pipe exposed in the v-berth! But it does seem the easiest to do, and I can make an enclosure around it!
 
Hans,

Look at the photos in the archives of Oconee's install. You do not have to run a pipe thru the Vberth bulkhead.

With the open gypsy on the Maxwell you can pull two anchors from the same windless setup with 200' of 5/16" HT chain dropping into the lower locker on the primary. And it preserves a large portion of the upper locker for storing the secondary, sumbbers, lines, etc.

One of nice things is the windlass motor is in the Vberth so the electrical stuff stays nice and dry.

Fairwinds & Rum Drinks,

Vic C.
 
Vic, if/when you have the opportunity, could you post pictures of your bow anchor rollers with the current anchors you carry (rocna and?).

I may be interested in upgrading the anchor platform of Calypso next year, and what you did was about what I had in mind.

However I haven't research vertical vs. horizontal windlasses yet, nor any particular model, and I am curious how do you like your maxwell vw 1200? Does the chain sometimes jump out of the windlass? Any issue overal with the set-up you have?

Thanks
Philippe
http://sailing.mcabou.com
 
Here is my solution. In pictures, I hope. The locker is split fore and aft. The aft section takes the main rode, 110ft chain/150ft 5/8 line, and comes off of the windlass. The foreward section is a second rode, 25 ft chain 150 ft 5/8 line, through a hause pipe. The cleats are 12" with the aft mounts thru-bolted and bolted to the bulkhead with 2" x 5/16" angle aluminum
I have been very happy with the results. I have since added a flush mount washdown fitting in the aft port corner. Next project after painting the hull is to add hause pipes thru the gunnels

17235.jpg

Beveling the edges

17236.jpg

insert

17237.jpg

'the hole'

17238.jpg

Insert glued and screwed

17239.jpg

Laminating over insert

17240.jpg

finished from top

17241.jpg

Finished from the bottom
 
It's definitely watertight now Jesse <img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0">. I am uneasy however to loose the top access to the well. Nonetheless, it looks good and clean when done. Thanks for posting those pics.

Cheers
Philippe
http://sailing.mcabou.com
 
Hans,

I am taking a shot a posting the photos..not too good at this hope it works.

A note the way mine anchoring system is set up you do not loose access to the upper locker. However, it is less "spacious."

The open windlass does chatter a bit when you set the anchor(s) but I've never had it jump out of the gypsy when the anchors are retrieved.

Fairwinds and Rum Drinks,

Vic
17244.jpg

src=
 
Jesse,

Beautiful work! Just a quick comment. I anchored an Endeavour 40 (25,000 lb. sloop) all over the Bahamas and Carribean. My main anchor was a 45# CQR with 60' of 3/8 chain and 200' of 5/8 nylon behind that. In 5 years there were a few blows and little dragging. Maybe I was just lucky, but some chain and good scope are more important as anchor size.

Tim
 
Hi all!
I promised John some pics. of my anchor installation, but there is not much to show! I cut away the flor in the upper locker, (it was rotten). glassed in the opening, and glassed in a for and aft devider down in the "new" locker. Port side is for the 35# Delta with mostly rode, SB. is for the 45# Manson s.A profesional "fiberglasser" did the job! He is to do the gel coat on Monday, together with some repair on stress cracks where deck meets the toe rail midships on SB. side. Then, finally; the wind lass is going to be mounted! The cable from the batteries are allready in place and I went to Sam's Club yesterday and bought 4 golf cart batteries and a starting battery. Hoping to get underway in a weeks time!
I'll keep you posted!
Fair winds.
 
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