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Windless: Electric vs. Manual

V

Victor Copelan

Member
I would like to hear a discussion of electric vs. manual windless pros and cons.

Those of you that have installed manual systems would you do it again or would you install an electric system? Those of you with electric systems same question but reversed. Why?

Thanks for you input.

Vic Copelan
 
Vic
I installed the electric windlass after my second shoulder surgery. Can't envision being without it now. Allows for heavier ground tackle and no wear and tear on my body as I become more and more age challanged. The amps used by the windlass are moot because the engine is always running when the machine is in use. Before you make the manual/electric decision, try someones manual unit and see how your back enjoys the workout.

Jim
 
Vic: I installed a Lofrens Progress 1 two seasons ago, it is electric, and I am very happy with it and much prefer it to a friends manual two speed as he really has to work at it. I was able to install this unit on the starboard side of the wooden existing Morgan teak after reinforcing it with 3/4 ply and then used stainless plates to hold it down, my 100 ft of 5/16 ht chain and 100 Ft 15mm rode store in the upper well, but you have to kneel and uncastle as it comes in.

Good luck whatever you choose.

Dick
 
Vic,
I installed a Maxwell 1200 electric a couple of years ago, the chain runs through a glassed in PVC pipe directly through the upper locker into the lower chain locker. I can haul up about 100' of 5/16 HT chain before I have to go down into the fwd birth and uncastle the chain which means I just push the mound of chain over. With the manual windlass I believe one stroke back and fourth pulls in 1 ft of chain, too much work for us "older" gents. If one had to raise the anchor in a hurry it couldn't be done. With the electric windlass 100' can be hauled up in only a couple of minutes. Like Jim says, engine is running so amps is of no concern. Even though it's more expensive go electric, you won't regret it!

Best Regards,
Fred
 
The main difference is that my two speed manual always works - and with routine grease, will work "forever". ( Simpson Lawrence Seatiger 555 @ $ 1500.00 is not cheap but is quick, strong & DEPENDABLE where with electric you never know what will happen when you push the button).Specs in Defender catolog.
 
An electric windlass is as dangerous as a radial arm saw. It is a great tool if you use it properly, but it can also grind your fingers and hands into hamburger if you are not very careful.
The installation also requires that you run heavy cabling from the batteries to the foredeck.
If you just daysail you can do without it, if you plan to do a lot of anchoring get one.
 
Installed a Muir Cougar horizontal electric windlass 2 years ago.

I installed the unit just aft of the anchor locker and ran the chain down a 2" stainless pipe to the lower anchor locker. The only evidence of the installation in the V-berth area is about 6" of shiny s.s. pipe angled from the deckhead to the anchor locker bulkhead.

I have a 35# plough with 200' 5/16" H.T. chain as primary anchor and a 33# Bruce with 30' 5/16" chain and 200' nylon as a 2nd. Both anchors are in a custom S.S. bowroller.
 
Vic,
I've got a Lewmar Ocean 1 Vertical series and I'm really pleased I did it - see my pictures for Papeche - I have more.
Having just cruised extensively, I can't recommend an electric enough. I've been in anchorages that went bad due to weather and the sucker pumping the manual lever had a hell of a time while I just single-handedly ran the anchor up and boogeyed over to a safer spot.
I too have a bad back - no question - best money spent for comfort and ease of anchoring. Remember the axiom, if it's easy and safe to use you won't be bothered to pick up anchor and move to a better spot, several times if need be.
Sorry guys, I'm an avid pro-electric windlass guy now. Yes it's annoying that I have to push over the chain pile around the last 25' mark, but I'm ready for it now.
I ran 00 wire from the engine battery forward - yes I said engine - it's running, it's only needed for no more than 2 minutes and has the correct cold cranking amps to really yank that sucker if need be on battery alone... a no-no, but back up in case you have to sail off anchor.
I too have the 33 Bruce primary to starboard on 175' 5/16th HT with 300' rode after and 35 CQR to port with 50' 5/16 BBB and 350' rode - more than enough.
Bottom line - think through your system, it will work fine and you'll be really pleased. This is as important as your engine starting on the first couple of cranks - can't believe I didn't do it sooner. I just feel safer. I know that I can drop my hook in seconds flat, and retrieve it within minutes - that's peace of mind.
 
Gents, it's a bit late, but here's my two bits...
I've accumulated experience with both manual and electric windlasses (two different boats) and I will never go back to a manual. For me the biggest benefit accrues when the chips are down. For example, if the bottom where you are anchoring is marginal, the electric allows you to pull and reset repeatedly until you are satisfied. Anyone with a manual windlass, especially in deep water, will quickly find himself accepting a marginal anchoring situation because he'll be too tired to continue re-setting. If your engine is running there is no power removed from the battery, but even if your engine was off (why?), pulling in the rode for 5 minutes at 100 amps will use only about 8 Ah, not very much in the total scheme of electrical things. I've only run my windlass for 5 minutes one time, after a blow, when I had 300' of chain out. I can't even imagine manually hauling 300' of chain, and just the thought makes my back ache!
By the way, all the electric windlasses I'm aware of have a mechanical backup lever in case of electrical failure -- so you CAN have it both ways!
 
For anyone that might be interested. I just purchased a Lofrans Progress II direct from IMTRA. It has a capstan and 5/16 HT gypsy. It is rated at 1250 watts. It was an end of model sale and came with full warrenty for $800. There were five left. So if a new windlass for $800 sounds good to you, call Paul at IMTRA at
ph. 508-995-7000

Jesse Garman
 
Jesse,
Thanks for the tip. I'm shopping around for a windlass and will check it out. Do you know why it's being discontinued? I don't know much about this model. Have you researched it much or just going for it due to cost?
Thanks,
Ken
 
Ken,

It is an end of model thing. They have the progress line which is new and very similar in desigh but shiny chrome. I did research it on the internet and found no negative comments or angry customers. I recently made an inquirey on this site and Dick Kilroy (I think) responded positively. And lofrans is the largest supplier of windlasses in Europe. I was concerned a little because the country of origin is Italy but then so is MAXprop. Maxwell is from New Zealand which I like. If you want one I would move soon as there were only five left when I placed my order 6 days ago.

Jesse Garman
 
Jesse,
I went ahead and order the Lofrans Progress II from Imtra. I had been leaning towards a horizontal manual windlass but that price was too hard to pass up. Thanks again for the tip.

I'm curious about what your plans are for installation regarding wiring, batteries, placement, etc.? The yard guy where I keep my M384 thinks it should have a dedicated battery and charger, or we should run a charging lead from the engine room to the windlass battery. But from what I've read in other posts on this forum, I get the impression that most owners believe the best set up is to use the starter battery.

Of course any one else is welcome to add to this discussion. Sage advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ken
 
Ken,
An electric windlass is a great investment in your anchoring pleasure - without a doubt! Now, you won't hesitate to drop, raise, drop, raise and drop again until it's right. You will sleep more soundly knowing that you're securely anchored and if you drag, it won't be a drag to pick up the hook and move the boat. Electric is the way to go.

In ref to your set up, I think you'll find the common mod that we have done to the boats - a downspout thru the chain/anchor well to the space below. Look at the pics on the board to give you ideas. It's really not hard to do - should take about 2-4hrs including bedding the windlass.
The wiring will only take another 1-1.5 hrs - again not too difficult.
I will speak from my set up - I looked at the 2 options - battery forward etc vs long 1.0 cables to the engine bat.
I went with the long cables properly sized to the engine battery.
In my non-engineering common sense - it only made sense to not put a battery up front - hell everybody has been taking ingots out of the forepeak to lighten up the bow - so why add a battery!?!
No, I went with the "run directly to the engine battery and wired it to an 80amp fuze and safety key by the bat box and straight to the bats. Intention is that the engine will always be running when anchoring for safety - always plenty of power if needed. That said, I anchor under sail often, I have sailed off of anchor when the occasion lent itself. There's been plenty of juice in the 600CC amp engine battery to do that with the engine off evey now and then for the peace and quiet of an anchorage. Either way, I rather have the engine on to get myself out of a jam as needed - so the power is there.

The only drawback is that I didn't zip tie the damn cable the entire length and guess where it droops down from the lining...dummy me. Next spring...

One last thought - make sure to buy the remote switch and wire it to the cockpit - you never know when you'll be doing an emergency anchoring alone.
I had not wired one and I paid for it in some very serious close calls. I've been a single-hander for quite some time. In the bay of St Tropez during a 50kt Mistral, poor holding, couldn't get an anchor to stick in the grassy, rocky bottom. I would raise the anchor off the bottom and the boat would careen downwind, until I ran back to the cockpit and motored back up into the wind - all in a full anchorage...very precarious position - so I left St Tropez anchorage and motored out at 7pm to find refuge elsewhere. I motored across the bay to protected waters for the night - but away from everything - so much for St Tropez that night.
The electric windlass was priceless at that moment and remote would have been all the better!
In that situation - can you imagine cranking an anchor manually? No way - just pull the chain up by hand would have been faster out of sheer adrenaline!
Nope - this sailor's sold on electric windlasses.

Good move and choice of gear. It will do you right.

Smooth sailing and safe secure anchorages!
Tony
 
Ken,
An electric windlass is a great investment in your anchoring pleasure - without a doubt! Now, you won't hesitate to drop, raise, drop, raise and drop again until it's right. You will sleep more soundly knowing that you're securely anchored and if you drag, it won't be a drag to pick up the hook and move the boat. Electric is the way to go.
I have the Lewmar Ocean 1 series - vertical unit.

In ref to your set up, I think you'll find the common mod that we have done to the boats - a downspout thru the chain/anchor well to the space below. Look at the pics on the board to give you ideas. It's really not hard to do - should take about 2-4hrs including bedding the windlass.
The wiring will only take another 1-1.5 hrs - again not too difficult.
I will speak from my set up - I looked at the 2 options - battery forward etc vs long 1.0 cables to the engine bat.
I went with the long cables properly sized to the engine battery.
In my non-engineering common sense - it only made sense to not put a battery up front - hell everybody has been taking ingots out of the forepeak to lighten up the bow - so why add a battery!?!
No, I went with the "run directly to the engine battery and wired it to an 80amp fuze and safety key by the bat box and straight to the bats. Intention is that the engine will always be running when anchoring for safety - always plenty of power if needed. That said, I anchor under sail often, I have sailed off of anchor when the occasion lent itself. There's been plenty of juice in the 600CC amp engine battery to do that with the engine off evey now and then for the peace and quiet of an anchorage. Either way, I rather have the engine on to get myself out of a jam as needed - so the power is there.

The only drawback is that I didn't zip tie the damn cable the entire length and guess where it droops down from the lining...dummy me. Next spring...

One last thought - make sure to buy the remote switch and wire it to the cockpit - you never know when you'll be doing an emergency anchoring alone.
I had not wired one and I paid for it in some very serious close calls. I've been a single-hander for quite some time. In the bay of St Tropez during a 50kt Mistral, poor holding, couldn't get an anchor to stick in the grassy, rocky bottom. I would raise the anchor off the bottom and the boat would careen downwind, until I ran back to the cockpit and motored back up into the wind - all in a full anchorage...very precarious position - so I left St Tropez anchorage and motored out at 7pm to find refuge elsewhere. I motored across the bay to protected waters for the night - but away from everything - so much for St Tropez that night.
The electric windlass was priceless at that moment and remote would have been all the better!
In that situation - can you imagine cranking an anchor manually? No way - just pull the chain up by hand would have been faster out of sheer adrenaline!
Nope - this sailor's sold on electric windlasses.

Good move and choice of gear. It will do you right.

Smooth sailing and safe secure anchorages!
Tony
 
Ken: I used 00 welding cable (more flexible) on both boats and it has been fine over the four and 5 years respectivly. On the Morgan it goes to the original battery area. Unlike Tony and many others I beefed up the split teak supplied by Morgan and then held that down with stainless plates therby avoidiong going into the V berth area. I do have to kneel and uncastle the chain on retrivle.

Good Luck

Dick
 
Ken
As Dick did, I used the 2/0 welding cable from the batteries to the bow. There is a plastic raceway used for fiber-optic cable installations called "interduct". It is sold at electrical supply houses (not Home Depot or Lowes) in a variety of sizes. I ran that up the stbd side to the bow then pulled the 2/0 cable through it. It is a perfect protector for the cable and much easier to secure in place. As Tony did, I installed two controls for the windlass, one on the bow and another at the helm. Mine are handheld controllers which allow more freedom of movement when working the tackle.

Jim
 
Ken,

I'm glad that you were able to make use of the info. I think that you will like it. I received mine the other day and I liked what I saw. It definitly is not a lightweight piece of equipment. As for install/placement. I never liked the original anchor locker so last year I ripped it all out and glassed over the hole. I will be placing it a few inches foreward of the forpeak bulkhead, flanked on either side by 12" cleats. The chain will drop straight down. The wiring had already been installed by the previous owner. So I'm hoping for an easy install.

Jesse Garman
 
I would recommend a strong backing such as stainless steel plate extending a good distance around the windlass. There is a great deal of force exerted on the windlass and surrounding deck when raising an anchor out of muck or if you are unlucky to find rocks.
Jim
 
Thanks for the tips on the Lofrans. My 15 year old maxwell has broken and maxwell will no longer repair it. I thought I could probably find a machinist to do it, but I haven't gotten around to that yet. Now, as have others, I have just bought the Lofras Progress 2 for $800. Too good a deal to pass up when I was in need of a windlass.
 
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