Upper shroud chainplates

[roblucey]

I am in the process of purchasing 382, hull # 159 and had the
boat surveyed last week. The survey did not go as well as
hoped, but there was one item that has me worried. The surveyor
thought that the below deck UPPER shroud chainplates looked too
small and were not sound. I have upper chainplates that look
like an inverted "L" with the top portion pressed up against the
deck matting above the headliner and thru-bolted to the portion
above deck (4 bolts). The bottom part of the "L" is bolted to
the aft head bulkhead on the port side and the aft wall of a
hanging locker on the starboard side (6 bolts a piece). Both
bulkheads are teak and are glassed into the hull. The
chainplates themselves are only about 8 inches long and are
stainless. Can anyone tell me from this description if this is
original? If it is, I won't worry about it. If not, does this
sound structurally sound? I've read the comments about the port
lower shroud, but this concerns the upper shroud. Any help
would be appreciated. My e mail address is GSHalasy@aol.com.
If it's too long for e mail, call collect at 216-496-4576. I
like this boat and don't want to pass it up for something
insignificant. Thanks.

 

[bschnur]

Greg,
From your description, it sounds like the boat you're interested in has the original chainplate system. I know of no one who has changed out the chainplates.
The surveyor you hired has expressed his opinion, but I wonder if he has the training and skill to make such a declaration? Does he have credentials in the field of yacht and rigging design? It's unlikely that he has, and so all you end up with is an opinion, which may or may not be backed up with data. I'll offer you my opinion, free of charge -- but backed up by ample emperical evidence, that the M382 chainplates are at least adequate.
The Morgan rig -- mast by Kenyon and standing rigging by Navtec, is very stout by today's standards. Even so, I found some evidence on my boat (hull #179) of severe overloading of the rig sometime it's past. The upper shrouds mounting point at the mast top suffered a compression tube failure, followed by metal migration in the mast walls. The mast was nowhere near failure, but repairs were required. It's significant that there was no other damage or evidence of movement anywhere else in the rig system, including in the chainplates and their mounting system. I take this as emperical evidence that the chainplates in my boat are more than up to the task at hand. Said another way, if the weakest link in the system is an admitedly overbuilt mast, then the chainplates are good enough for me.
To be sure, the Morgan 382 is not a perfect boat, but it does seem to enjoy having happy owners who are very satisfied over the long haul. It's impressive to me that many of the members of this Morgan association are the original owners of their boats.
Good luck...

 

[roblucey]

<div>Jim,
Thank you for your quick response. I'm glad you were able to decypher my description and even more pleased to hear that everything sounds original. This boat has had the starboard pilot berth modified with cabinetry, a common modification from what I've read. I believe the surveyor, who is well respected in the area, felt that the chainplates and what they were bonded to (the teak bulkheads instead of a fibreglass stringer) may have been the result of the modification. It appears from everyone I've talked with that this is not the case. I'm communicating with the owner who I believe will substantiate this. Just as a side note, I recently was aboard a Tarten 37, which seems to be compared frequently with the Morgan 38's. All cosmetic/cleanliness issues aside, I feel the Morgan is superior as far as liveability is concerned. The chainplate construction is also similar with one exception: the upper and aft lower shrouds are bonded to the same bulkhead in the Tarten resulting in the need to spread the load over a greater area. Thanks again for the good information.Greg
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[aistqm]

<div>I just read an article by Ted Brewer. Ted stated that the load on the windward side of most sailboat chain plates when the boat is heeled about 30 degrees is equal to the displacement of the boat. In other words, it takes 10000 lbs of force to heel a 10000 lb boat 30 degrees.Jay
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