• Welcome to this website/forum for people interested in the Morgan 38 Sailboat. Many of our members are 'owners' of Morgan 38s, but you don't need to be an owner to Register/Join.

Perkins instrument panel plate

T

terry_thatcher

Terence Thatcher
My old perkins instrument panel plate (one big hole for tach, four smaller holes for other instruments, plus key and stop button) is a corroded mess. I guess I could have a machinist fabricate a replacment but--does anyone have suggestions, instead, of where I could just buy one?

thanks.
 
Terry,

My panel also looks hell, and has a couple of switches that are no longer even used. About ten years ago I had a small diesel replaced. My mechanic installed a Mastry engine panel, and it was not too expensive. It was a black plastic panel with the usual stuff: tack, amps, oil pressure, water temperature. I cannot find one anywhere even after a long search. I will ask my mechanic where he got the panel.

Tim
 
Terry:

When we bought "Paragon", (M382 #265 with a Perkins 4-108) the oil pressure gauge and alarm lights did not work. The ammeter was not very useful but the tach, water temp, and hour meter worked. I bought a new oil pressure switch and pressure sender but the difficulty of access to replace them kept me from doing it. Recently the needle on the water temperature gauge broke. I considered replacing individual gauges and wiring vs. replacing the whole panel.

I looked at several panels from Yanmar, Beta Marine, Vetus, and one that TransAtlantic Diesel (TAD) sells that was supposed to be a plug and play replacement for Perkins. Inertia kept me from action.

Finally our friends who own "Ostara", a M382 sister ship also on the lake reported similar engine instrument woes so together, we decided to replace the instruments on both our boats. We opted for the TAD panel. It comes complete with gauges, senders, switches, and a new engine wiring harness designed for a Perkins 4-108. See http://www.tadiesels.com/instrument_panel.html The price was about $600.

Two weekends ago, we replaced Ostara's panel. Replacing the senders is probably the toughest part. Replacing the engine wiring was relatively straight forward ' only 14 wires and they are color coded. It only required minor trimming to fit the new panel into the space where the old panel was. In a day, we had the engine running with all new instruments! It has taken another weekend to clean up the wiring, bundling and securing the harness. In two weeks (because of the Labor Day holiday and a race next weekend), we are going to replace Paragon's panel. I will take some photos to document the experience.

We are also replacing the three switch panel next to the instrument panel with a six switch / circuit breaker panel (Blue Sea Weatherdeck). I plan to relocate the nav, masthead, steaming, and deck lights to this panel and keep the bilge pump and blower switches ' it will be much easier than having to go below to switch on lights and it will free up space in the main panel for some other things.

-Alan
 
Terry -

If you search for "Lazarette" and "Cover", then select the "Mainsail Track Endstop" topic, there is a picture at the bottom of the thread which shows what I did. Using a teak board, I created a new instrument panel for new instruments (5 VDO gauges, including tach w/ hourmeter, voltmeter, rudder indicator, temperature gauge and oil pressure gauge). I also replaced the old switch panel (Compass lights, bilge pump, blower) with a new Paneltronics panel with 3 waterproof rocker switches.

I had a mechanic wire it all up, so I didn't "blow" a gauge.

It looks and works beautifully. Wasn't too hard to make, though you need to be very careful w/ the location and exact size of the holes for the gauges. I keep it covered up w/canvas when not using the boat, to protect the 8 coats of varnish.
 
thanks, all. All my gauges work, its the panel itself that is corroded (aluminum.) I have thought about teak and may go there, but upkeep is an issue. Alternative is a machinist and stainless, I guess.
 
Terry - What about Starboard? It's cheap, easy to work with, and shouldn't be a problem maintaining...

John - if you use the search function on the left, type in "Lazarette" and "Cover" (and use the criteria AND instead of OR), then select the "Mainsail Track Endstop" topic. Pics are at the bottom of the thread.
 
Try West Marine:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=10104&subdeptNum=10356&classNum=10997

Starboard Poly-Sheets Building Material
An ideal material for building projects to replace worn-out teak or plastic laminates. Marine Lumber is high-density polyethylene which is stabilized to resist saltwater, chemicals, and sunlight. It will not rot or delaminate, and is easily cut, routed, shaped and drilled, using standard woodworking tools. It retains its original color indefinitely, and doesn't require refinishing. The scuff-resistant surface cleans easily and quickly with a scrub brush and light abrasive cleaner. Matte surface texture. Starboard'--a marine-grade polymer--is stabilized to resist saltwater, chemicals, and UV damage. An ideal material for building projects to replace worn-out teak or plastic laminates.

Easy to cut into any shape using common woodworking tools.
It will retain its original color indefinitely, and doesn't require refinishing.
 
I made a new panel for my Yanmar out of a plywood scrap,used the old panel as a template, and painted it black and transferred the gauges. After 10 years it still looks good and it was free.
 
Matts idea on srarboard is right on in my opinion. Have had starboard covering old instrument holes and holding new instruments on Dashaway in the Carribean for 11 years andit still looks great.

Dick
 
Well the $600 solution seems a bit pricey to me right now. Mainly because of my $450 high pressure pump rebuild. While everything on the engine is torn down, it might be a good time to replace the senders.

In the cockpit, I really only care about RPM, water temp, oil pressure, and alarms. The hourmeter, amps, volts can go below for all I care. A quick check of West Marine shows that the tack is about $130, and temp and pressure gages are around $35 each. So for about $200, I can get the basics, and then just build a panel. Still, a new panel would be really sweet.
 
Tim:
You are right, if you want to do more of the work yourself you can save some bucks buying gauges, matching senders, building your own wiring harness, etc. instead of buying a packaged system like we did. Given my rate of project completion, removing some of the obstacles of fabrication helped me get it done.

I agree, replacing the senders while they are more accessible is way easier. Why I didn't do that while I had the engine out of the boat 5 years ago is a mystery.

Starboard may be a reasonable panel option. I assume that the gauges can be mounted in something with more thickness.

Dick:
I may need to use a starboard panel to cover a couple of old holes (where the flame start and power outlet were mounted) and mount the new instrument and circuit breaker panels to it. Good idea.

Matt:
I looked at the photo of your new panel - looks great. I was concerned about trying to maintain varnish around all the instruments but I suppose it is not as subject to weather as other woodwork.

-Alan
 
Tim - I *think* I priced the TAD panel w/o senders or harness - $275. Give Sherri Moon a call at TAD, they're very helpful. Perhaps the new gauges are compatible with the old senders? Regards/Dave
 
Dave,

The $275 is about right. Lately, I have done quite a bit of business with TAD. When I order something, it is at the marina in two days. Very impressive.

Tim
 
OK,

I have cleaned out and reworked my cooling system. I went out the other day and was very impressed with how cool the engine was running until it finally went to zero. Clearly the sender/gage had failed, so we did a sniff test for overheating for the next two hours. Now I am ready to replace the senders for oil pressure and water temperature. Also will replace the gages. Does anyone have a source for senders and where are they located on the engine? It looks like there is a temp sender and oil pressure sender, also a temp alarm and low pressure alarm. Which ones are which? Does location matter?

Tim
 
Hi Tim:
We completed installation of the engine instruments on Paragon this weekend. Work included new senders, new engine wiring harness, new instruments and panel. Shelton Sawyer who owns Ostara, a M382 sister ship on Lake Lanier helped. We had done the same work on his boat a few weekends earlier. The shared project worked well - provided motivation to get the work done, help, shared tools and resources, etc.
In the process of doing this work I also replaced the starter, installed a new cockpit branch electrical panel to replace the three switches, and assorted other things. I will write in more detail about the process and illustrate it with photos.
First, I will try to answer some of your questions.
- I purchased the instruments, senders, panel, and wiring harness from TransAtlantic Diesel so they were matched and designed for use on a Perkins 4-108.
- The oil pressure sender does not have a brand or model on it. The box was labeled as "SD0003", the sender is stamped 80 psi
- The oil pressure switch is a Cole Hersee "8610"
- the water temperature switch is in a box labelled ISSPRO "R363E", it closes at 200 F, and is 3/8" pipe.
- the water temperature sender was by the same manufacturer but I don't have the model number. Ask TAD. It was also 3/8" pipe so I used an adapter bushing to fit the 1/2" hole on the block.
- I have attached photos of the oil pressure switch and sender - they are on the port side of the engine. I took these when I had the engine out of the boat. (Why I didn't replace them at that time is a good question.) The switch is in front. I removed the starter which made accessing the sender and switch much easier. On Shelton's boat we did it with the starter in place - tough but do-able.
- I have attached a photo of the water temperature switch and sender on the top front of my engine. Sender is threaded into block. Shelton's engine is older with the tank across front. The sender was in the front, the switch was in the back in the top of the head - we could not get it out and re-used it.
- There was no audible alarm on the original panel - there were two warning lights - the one on the port side was for oil pressure, the stbd for water temp. Neither worked on my boat nor did the oil pressure gauge. After the temperature gauge needle broke, it was time for action.

Let me know if you have questions.

17779.jpg

Oil Senders - Perkins 4-108

17780.jpg

Oil Pressure Switch - Perkins 4-108

17781.jpg

Oil Pressure Sender - Perkins 4-108

17782.jpg

Water Temperature Senders - Perkins 4-108
 
Alan and Cheryl,

Wow! This is really great stuff. Without this information, my next move was to start taking wires off to see which sender was which.

I recently had my high pressure pump rebuilt, and removed everything on the port side of the engine. On reassembly, I think I reversed the wires of the water temp sender and water high temp switch. In any case, it would be a good idea to replace this stuff.

I have seen various sites online that list gages and the senders that go with each gage. Few of them are marine, but the sites are educational. http://www.egauges.com has marine gauges (powerboat oriented). Some senders come with dual contacts: one for temp/pressure, the other for the buzzer/light.

Thanks again for your excellent documentation.
 
Can you tell me what the difference is between a "switch" and a
"sender?" Is sender for gauge and switch for warning light? Or???
 
In the original owner's manual, there was a detailed wiring diagram of the engine instrument wiring for the Perkins. I think it listed the wiring colors, however, it would not hard to disconnect the wire at the sender or switch and at the gauge to test which one when where and verify that you had no breaks in the wire.
The oil pressure switch is closed (electrical contact between the center contact and the housing or engine ground) when there is no oil pressure. The warning light or alarm should be lit when the key is on but engine is off. Once the engine is running and making oil pressure, the switch opens and turns off the light.
The water temperature switch works in reverse - it is open until (if) the engine overheats, then the switch closes to light the warning light or sound an alarm.
Senders change resistance as the pressure or temperature changes. The change in resistance is proportional to the temperature or pressure. This is used to vary the voltage feeding the meter to move the needle. You can remove the wire from the sender and measure the resistance to ground. It should be some value other than zero or infinite (open circuit) this tells you whether it is a sender or switch and in a crude sense, tells you if it is bad or not. However, with out the specs, and testing it at different conditions, you can't verify that it is good. These devices are inexpensive and replacement, though hard to reach, is the best approach
Shelton found this link to the website of our instruments - might be helpful. http://www.faria-instruments.com/downloads.php
 
Terry -

In layman's terms - the senders are the gizmos that are attached to the engine, and measure the temperature and pressure. The temperature and pressure increase or decrease the resistance in the wires that feed into the gauges, which are controlled by the switches as described by Alan above.
 
Just something I noticed. I went to the Faria link, and found a lot of broken links or blank pages. I reloaded Adobe Reader and then all the links worked. This is a little goldmine of information. Thanks again Alan and Cheryl.
 
Just to clarify that last post. I downloaded an newer version of the Adobe Reader, not just a reload of the one that I already have. Maybe I should not post so early in the morning.
 
All,

Part of what got me going on this instrument panel thing was my upgraded cooling system. I converted back to the old style header tank on the front, simple exhaust manifold, heat exchanger on the back. It was expensive, but I never liked the combination heat exchanger/manifold/header tank.

Now the engine runs so cool, I wondered if the gage was correct! I ordered a new water temp gage and sender, but then started to wonder about wiring. After all, I have rewired the entire boat and found some pretty marginal stuff.

The wiring harness was a real mess. I removed most of it and kept some in place. Now there is no big eight pin plug in the back, and the harness does not circumnavigate the engine to get to the starter. It took one long day to do this including some head scratching trying to figure out what had been done to the harness by the previous owners. There were a lot of twisted-wire-tape splices, and wires that go nowhere etc.

Now the tach works better, and the water temp is more believable even with the old gage. Also, at least one mechanic has told me that the big harness plug in the back was a weak point.

I will still upgrade the panel. I have three differnt brands of gages on just the one panel. Like the harness, there are tape splices, and all the usual stuff that some lazy guy did to add the gages that are in place now.

Tim
 
Jose,

I got it from Transatlantic Diesel (TAD). All this stuff is getting expensive.
Apparently TAD bought up all the remaining new Perkins parts some time ago.
MY tank and exhaust manifold are remanufactured.
Heat exchanger is new though.

Tim
 
Jose,

Thanks for the link. I checked into repowering. My mechanic said about $5000 for a rebuilt 4-108, but that is for a short block. Then there is all of the bolt on stuff and labor. So I continue to work on the old Perkins. btw, I spent about $350 for the exhaust manifold in aluminum.

Tim
 
Thought I'd add some before, during and after photos of the work Alan Shedd and I did to change the engine and cockpit switch panels on my 382 Ostara. I haven't gotten the new switch panel wired up yet so there are no labels but overall I'm very happy with the results. Thanks to Alan's help with the wiring it went rather smoothly. We had my engine running in one day. It took longer to neaten up the wiring and add the switch panel.


17823.jpg

Obviously old panels


17824.jpg

Cabin chaos


17825.jpg

Alan hard at work on my boat


17826.jpg

New engine and switch panels
 
Sorry the photos posted so large. First time I've posted any on the site. Anyone know how to post them so they show in a smaller format?
 
Hope you can see those latest photos better. By the way, That's Alan Shedd working on my boat. I did help him on his also. It was a messy but a fun project and we're both happy with the results.
 
Hi Jim:
Thanks for pointing out my balding head. I don't see it when I look in the mirror. I'll have to talk to that make-up girl on the set next time.

It was great doing the same project on two boats - Shelton was a good sport by going first. We learned a lot. Why is it always easier cutting holes in someone else's boat?
-Alan
 
All,

Just installed VDO gauges. Ended up costing about $300. Now have very smooth response. On to the next project.

Tim
 
Alan and Sheldon, seeking a little info from you about the instrument panel change both of you did about 5 years ago. My panel is in lousy shape with the metal trim on the face of the instruments falling apart and a mess of wiring on the rear of the panel. I'm considering buying the new panel from Trans Atlantic and interested in maybe getting some info from y'all about the installation. First, is there a type of bundled free wires on the new panel wiring or is there some type of harness connector ? My current panel has individual wires from it that connect to a terminal strip on the front. port side of the engine compartment. There is a harness running from part of the engine harness to also connect wires to this terminal strip. I assume these are some of the wires feeding info to the meters and wiring to the solenoid. Also, there is an extension available from TAD if it is needed. Was this needed on your installation ? All for now, but may want to pick info down the road.
 
Bill, I liked the looks of Alan and Sheldons instrument panel but did not like the price TAD gave me for the setup. I instead made one using starboard,1/4 inch only I tried 1/2 inch but the replacement instruments used plastic backup pieces to hold them in place and did not have enough thread left to bolt them on. Starboard can be found online cheaper than at west marine or other marine stores. The instruments the same. The harness in my opinion is not worth buying. At least for the Perkins it only takes 5 wires, you can bring them up to a terminal strip much better option than a plug.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    1 MB · Views: 73
paragon said:
Hi Tim:
We completed installation of the engine instruments on Paragon this weekend. Work included new senders, new engine wiring harness, new instruments and panel. Shelton Sawyer who owns Ostara, a M382 sister ship on Lake Lanier helped. We had done the same work on his boat a few weekends earlier. The shared project worked well - provided motivation to get the work done, help, shared tools and resources, etc.
In the process of doing this work I also replaced the starter, installed a new cockpit branch electrical panel to replace the three switches, and assorted other things. I will write in more detail about the process and illustrate it with photos.
First, I will try to answer some of your questions.
- I purchased the instruments, senders, panel, and wiring harness from TransAtlantic Diesel so they were matched and designed for use on a Perkins 4-108.
- The oil pressure sender does not have a brand or model on it. The box was labeled as "SD0003", the sender is stamped 80 psi
- The oil pressure switch is a Cole Hersee "8610"
- the water temperature switch is in a box labelled ISSPRO "R363E", it closes at 200 F, and is 3/8" pipe.
- the water temperature sender was by the same manufacturer but I don't have the model number. Ask TAD. It was also 3/8" pipe so I used an adapter bushing to fit the 1/2" hole on the block.
- I have attached photos of the oil pressure switch and sender - they are on the port side of the engine. I took these when I had the engine out of the boat. (Why I didn't replace them at that time is a good question.) The switch is in front. I removed the starter which made accessing the sender and switch much easier. On Shelton's boat we did it with the starter in place - tough but do-able.
- I have attached a photo of the water temperature switch and sender on the top front of my engine. Sender is threaded into block. Shelton's engine is older with the tank across front. The sender was in the front, the switch was in the back in the top of the head - we could not get it out and re-used it.
- There was no audible alarm on the original panel - there were two warning lights - the one on the port side was for oil pressure, the stbd for water temp. Neither worked on my boat nor did the oil pressure gauge. After the temperature gauge needle broke, it was time for action.

Let me know if you have questions.

View attachment 4549

Oil Senders - Perkins 4-108

View attachment 4550

Oil Pressure Switch - Perkins 4-108

View attachment 4551

Oil Pressure Sender - Perkins 4-108

View attachment 4552

Water Temperature Senders - Perkins 4-108
Click to expand...
Why is there 2 water temperature senders? Is this correct?
 
John, on a Perkins 4108 there is a temperature switch that will give you a audible/visual alarm of a high temp and a sender that will give the visual temperature on the gauge. The oil system has the same system but the switch is for low oil pressure and the sender is for the gauge.
 
rickdowe2 said:
John, on a Perkins 4108 there is a temperature switch that will give you a audible/visual alarm of a high temp and a sender that will give the visual temperature on the gauge. The oil system has the same system but the switch is for low oil pressure and the sender is for the gauge.
Click to expand...
Thx! This makes sense.
It’s fixed now and works perfectly.
 
Last edited:
Has anyone replaced the bulbs that illuminate the original gauges? Are there LED possibilities?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top