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Gudgeon Revisited

jimcleary

jimcleary

James M. Cleary
When Dana was hauled this fall I noticed a bit of play in the fit of the rudder gudgeon. Not happy with the amount of slop, I figured it was time to do something about it. This first job was to remove, clean, inspect and measure the fitting. Then my three options were as follows: have a whole new fitting made (very expensive), have the existing fitting rebuilt by adding bronze and machining a new opening (1/2 boat unit), or adding a shim to fill up the space (minimum cost).
The shim option which is the easiest and most economical, would only be available if the wear on the opening was symmetrical. If the hole was worn oval then a shim would not work and machining would be necessary. Much to my joy, the hole was well worn but worn equally all around.
Remembering a previous discussion on the subject, I think it was Lee who mentioned sheets of UHMW adhesive backed film available from McMaster-Carr. Next step was to figure out the size I needed.
The rudder stock is 1.75", The worn opening was 1.864". That left a gap of .114". Divide that by half to get the gap on each side of the post is .057". The thickest UHMW film they had was .047". So I purchased a sheet of the .047 and a sheet of .005. The sheets are 12" x 12" and were $12 and $9. Between the two the gap will be reduced to .010".
Attached are photos of the gudgeon all cleaned up. A wooden mockup of the rudder stock turned to 1.75". And a piece of the .047 UHMW sheet rolled around the stock and inserted in the opening.
While I have the gudgeon off I'm planning on lowering the rudder and replacing the cutlass bearing which is starting to feel a little loose.

Jim
 

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jimcleary said:
When Dana was hauled this fall I noticed a bit of play in the fit of the rudder gudgeon. Not happy with the amount of slop, I figured it was time to do something about it. This first job was to remove, clean, inspect and measure the fitting. Then my three options were as follows: have a whole new fitting made (very expensive), have the existing fitting rebuilt by adding bronze and machining a new opening (1/2 boat unit), or adding a shim to fill up the space (minimum cost).
The shim option which is the easiest and most economical, would only be available if the wear on the opening was symmetrical. If the hole was worn oval then a shim would not work and machining would be necessary. Much to my joy, the hole was well worn but worn equally all around.
Remembering a previous discussion on the subject, I think it was Lee who mentioned sheets of UHMW adhesive backed film available from McMaster-Carr. Next step was to figure out the size I needed.
The rudder stock is 1.75", The worn opening was 1.864". That left a gap of .114". Divide that by half to get the gap on each side of the post is .057". The thickest UHMW film they had was .047". So I purchased a sheet of the .047 and a sheet of .005. The sheets are 12" x 12" and were $12 and $9. Between the two the gap will be reduced to .010".
Attached are photos of the gudgeon all cleaned up. A wooden mockup of the rudder stock turned to 1.75". And a piece of the .047 UHMW sheet rolled around the stock and inserted in the opening.
While I have the gudgeon off I'm planning on lowering the rudder and replacing the cutlass bearing which is starting to feel a little loose.

Jim
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Jim
What did you use to clean gudgeon? Elbow grease, chemical, wire brush?
 
John

It was cleaned on a bench grinder with a 6" wire wheel. You MUST wear a face mask and goggles when doing the work.

Jim
 
Nice job! Looks practically new. I guess it could have been finished off at a machine shop to be Smooth as new.
 
Jim, I am ignorant of the UMHW film. Will it not wear out quickly? Or is it strong as bronze or stainless? I ha=e not had a Gudgeon issues so far, but it may be about to happen. Adavida is 38 years old and has sailed tens of thousands of miles by now.
 
Terry

I just went on Wikipedia to get you a more intelligent answer then I could give you. UHMW is Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. It is 15 times more abrasion resistant then carbon steel, has a lower coefficient of friction then Nylon, is self lubricating among other qualities. It is the stuff they make Dyneema and Spectra line out of. It also is used in the manufacture of body armor and the bottom of snowboards.

With all that, I hope it will last as a shim in our application. We'll find out.

Jim
 
Jim,
Back in my airboat days we put UHMW on the bottom of the hulls to make them slicker for running in the marsh or on the ground. It was tough drilling all the holes in the bottom of the boat to attach it but it sure improved the performance on land.
 
Well done, Jim. An elegant solution. There should have been a bushing in there from Morgan, but it did last 40 years, so its out of warranty by now!
What keeps the UHMW sleeve from moving up or down?
 
Lee, Thanks again for the lead to McMaster-Carr and the UHMW.

Dave, The sheets of UHMW have a self adhesive backing. As shown on the oak plug, the material will be adhered to the rudder stock prior to installation. Once the gudgeon is back in place and secure, the UHMW will have no place to go. Which brings me to another point. A year or two ago we had a discussion about the bushings that were supposed to be installed both top and bottom of the gudgeon fitting. Those bushings never existed on Dana in all the years I owned her. After reading about those bushings here on the Board, I made up a bunch of aftermarket replacements out of 1/4" Starboard. Two styles were made, one to be installed with the gudgeon fitting removed and one to be snapped in place with the fitting in place. Last spring I installed one of the snap in place bushings. I'm happy to report that when I removed the gudgeon a week or so ago, the bushing was nicely still in place and appears to have done a good job doing what it is supposed to do. I was wondering if anyone who I sent those bushings to have any feedback as to their use.

Jim
 
Jim
I have one of those bushings from you (I think) ...did you just push it into place?
You wouldn’t happen to have a photo of where it is located and how it looks?
 
John
The smaller (inner) side of the gap is slightly smaller then the diameter of the rudder post. If you hold it in place then tap it lightly with a hammer or a block of wood, it will snap into place around the post. Of the four photos, one is the bushing in place on top of the gudgeon, one is the bushing with the split which can be installed with the gudgeon removed, one is the snap-on bushing with the gap, and one is the drawing of the snap-on bushing that can be installed with the gudgeon in place. I've waited to see how the snap-on bushing that I installed on Dana fared before I say that they work OK.

Jim
 

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jimcleary said:
John
The smaller (inner) side of the gap is slightly smaller then the diameter of the rudder post. If you hold it in place then tap it lightly with a hammer or a block of wood, it will snap into place around the post. Of the four photos, one is the bushing in place on top of the gudgeon, one is the bushing with the split which can be installed with the gudgeon removed, one is the snap-on bushing with the gap, and one is the drawing of the snap-on bushing that can be installed with the gudgeon in place. I've waited to see how the snap-on bushing that I installed on Dana fared before I say that they work OK.

Jim
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Thanks Jim..I think the second one I got from you is the closed one...darn and we had the rudder off. I think it will be great at taking out a little bit of up and down slop...there isn’t any side to side or at least only a very negligible amount.
 
John
If the one you have is the one with the slot, either cut away the slot area to the dimensions on the drawing to make it a snap-on gap, or send it back to me and I will modify it for you. Hold on! I just noticed that one of the dimensions on the drawing is wrong. The total outside dimension at the bottom of the drawing should be 3 1/8" not 4". The other numbers are correct.

Jim
 
I try cutting out the area from your template...is that right? I’m sure this is a dumb question but why is it on the top and not the bottom? What’s the best tool to use to cut it with. It looks so perfect I don’t want to mess it up. :)
 
John
The bushing is a sort of a thrust bearing that supports the weight of the rudder on top of the gudgeon. It prevents the fiberglass of the rudder from rubbing on the bronze fitting.

To create the gap, measure 1 3/4" across the outer rim of the circle. Then measure 1 1/2 across the inner rim of the circle. Insure that the inner marks are centered between the outer marks. Draw lines between the inner and outer marks. Cut slowly with a hacksaw or similar instrument of destruction. Or, just send it to me and I will cut it for you.

I think originally Morgan wanted bushings both top and bottom of the gudgeon. That may have been because the rudders should be close to neutral buoyancy in the water and the bushings would prevent wear from both directions. Thinking about it now, I wonder how the UHMW film would work as thin bushings?

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
John
The bushing is a sort of a thrust bearing that supports the weight of the rudder on top of the gudgeon. It prevents the fiberglass of the rudder from rubbing on the bronze fitting.

To create the gap, measure 1 3/4" across the outer rim of the circle. Then measure 1 1/2 across the inner rim of the circle. Insure that the inner marks are centered between the outer marks. Draw lines between the inner and outer marks. Cut slowly with a hacksaw or similar instrument of destruction. Or, just send it to me and I will cut it for you.

I think originally Morgan wanted bushings both top and bottom of the gudgeon. That may have been because the rudders should be close to neutral buoyancy in the water and the bushings would prevent wear from both directions. Thinking about it now, I wonder how the UHMW film would work as thin bushings?

Jim
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Good question? Thx Jim...I might send it. I have a hack saw but I could see me going whoops! Let stare at it for a while and study it. It’s such a work of art...:)
 
John
Put it in an envelope!!! I wouldn't want to be responsible for the Lake Champlain hacksaw massacre.

Jim
 
Jim...my wife Joni went and got that washer out of our boat box and low and behold you had already cut it for us! So we are going to take it to the boat and try it on. Thanks...
 
John
My Mother-in-Law used to live in Northern Wisconsin where they only had three seasons: July, August and Winter. I always thought Vermont suffered from the same. Only kidding!

Jim
 
With the gudgeon off, It was an obvious time to drop the rudder, pull the shaft, pull the cutlass bearing, replace the shaft packing gland hose and repack both the shaft and rudder packing glands. A few days ago the hole was dug to drop the rudder. The boat yard doesn't mind my digging the hole as long as I do it quickly and leave the ground as I found it. Today the new cutlass bearing went in, the shaft (not badly worn) went back in, and the rudder lifted back up into place. The lift was done with two 1/2 ton chain falls. Hanging from each side of the boat and with a webbing sling under the rudder, it was easy to lift slowly with one person. With the rudder in place I was able to fill in the hole to make the yard happy. I ordered new bronze bolts for the gudgeon from Jamestown Distributors. When they arrive, I'll finish the work on shimming the gudgeon. Attached are a few photos of the lifting process.

Jim
 

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Nice...just replacing my cutlass bearing, dripless and packing material ended up costing us almost $3,000!
 
Hi Jim,

Dana looks great on the hard. I have some questions:

1. I see you have the upgraded rudder shape - remind me how you wound up with that version (you have hull 53, I have 49).

2. It appears you are using 12 boat stands. Just what is your thinking is there? Including the purpose of the one just aft of the keel. Is it because there isn't a lot of support under the keep because of the way these boats need to be blocked? My old pearson used to put most of her weight resting on the keel, stands were more just to hold her upright.

3. That's a big prop in great condition. Did you add that? We have the same engine. My boat has a two blade prop. I can't say she motors fast...

4. Any issues getting the rudder post loose for dropping? And remind me also if you have Orion steering which is what is on my boat?

Thanks,

Peter

PS - the UMVW stuff looks like magic material worth having some on hand for applications limited only by one's imagination.

PSS - say hi to Bonnie
 
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Dave
I would guess in the neighborhood of 80-90lbs. Years ago I could have lifted it by myself. Now I need those chain falls. I bought the chain falls in Harbor Freight for cheap and only use them for this job. They work well
 
Pete
Years ago we were getting large rust streaks from the original rudder when the boat was up for the winter. I was afraid there was internal damage happening. So I ordered a 384 rudder from Foss Foam in Florida. The cost was about 2K. I was hoping there would be an improvement in the steering ability with the different shape of the 384 rudder. There isn't! Same old barn door.

The number of jack stands holding the boat is not my choice. Dana is in a Brewers/Safe Harbor yard in Glen Cove NY. They are very safety conscience there. All the boats in the yard are well supported and they don't charge extra for each jack stand. The weight of the boat is taken by the blocking under the lead part of the keel. In addition to the port & stbd stands, there are two stands under the centerline, one between the aft end of the keel and the skeg and one forward of the keel. They are a pain in the ass in the spring when trying to work on the bottom but they are wonderful when it's blowing 45kts in a Northeaster in February.

That is a 16 x 11 RH three blade fixed prop. The previous owner had it on her when we bought her in1987. We love it. John Huling from Vermont probably cringed when he saw the photo but that prop has taken us a lot of miles. Some of them in reverse.

When the rudder packing gland nut and the gudgeon are removed, the rudder will fall out of the boat on it's own. I failed to mention that the chain fall and webbing strap are needed to lower the rudder down into the hole as well as lifting.

The UHMW film is cool stuff. I'm trying to think of other ways to use it on board.

I was up in your neighborhood this week. I good friend of mine is buying a Catalina 42 from a guy in Braintree. We were up for the survey on Wednesday. I'm sure we'll be stopping in Scuitute when we bring the boat down in the spring. Hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas and a safe winter.

Jim
 
Thanks for the info Jim, and for the kind wishes (back at you).

Interesting experience on the upgraded rudder. I think I will worry less about blaming the smaller rudder for weather helm and a snake course and focus more on getting sail trim right for the conditions and direction...

Based on what you describe and experience I have had with the Plymouth Brewers with another boat, I would say you are in very good hands there.

On the prop, I will say that as my Uncle Ray who got me into sailing used to always tell me, cruising is 80% powering. I tracked you on vesselfinder.com when you headed north from Scituate this past summer and saw you were doing a steady 6.5 knots while most likely motoring.

On your rudder drop, my experience with dropping the centerboard on my pearson to replace a broken pennant was that the hardest part was digging the darn hole!

Good luck to your friend and his Cat 42. Those are big and comfy.

Peter
 
Pete

When we completed both of our 8 month trips down the ICW to the Bahamas and the Keys I calculated our motoring VS sailing times. On each trip the amount of time we motored was in the neighborhood of 90% of the time. A lot of the time in the ICW we rolled out the jib for a little extra push. But the vast majority of the time was on the engine.

As with your centerboard, it took 1 1/2 hours to dig the hole and 10 minutes to drop the rudder. Of course the ground that I had to dig was more rock then dirt.

You are correct. When we left Scituate we motored to Rockport, Mass on a mostly windless day.

Jim
 
Yesterday the gudgeon was put back in place with new bronze bolts from Jamestown Distributers. The UHMW polyethylene shims work great as the rudder moves freely and there is no movement of the rudder shaft back & forth in the fitting. One thing I would do if ever a next time arises, would be to use thinner layers of the plastic sheets. The gap I need to fill was .110. I used a thick sheet of .047 and a thin sheet of .005 . The thicker sheet was a bit hard to put in place, where two sheets of .025 would have been easier to handle. Now the last thing to do is to fair around the fitting with a filler and coat with inter protect. That will wait till spring.

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
Yesterday the gudgeon was put back in place with new bronze bolts from Jamestown Distributers. The UHMW polyethylene shims work great as the rudder moves freely and there is no movement of the rudder shaft back & forth in the fitting. One thing I would do if ever a next time arises, would be to use thinner layers of the plastic sheets. The gap I need to fill was .110. I used a thick sheet of .047 and a thin sheet of .005 . The thicker sheet was a bit hard to put in place, where two sheets of .025 would have been easier to handle. Now the last thing to do is to fair around the fitting with a filler and coat with inter protect. That will wait till spring.

Jim
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Then you can do mine! Lol
 
John
This was not a terribly hard job but it's not one that I look forward to doing again. Of course, if you need to do it someday, I gladly sit in a lawn chair, with a beer and pretzels, offering advice and watching your efforts. I'll bring my own sled.

Jim
 
Funny. Reminds me when were moving in to our home on the mountain in Vermont. We had a 1200 foot drive way up the mountain. All heated under the asphalt with heating elements for winter but too expensive to run. The electric bill was incredible.
Our neighbor “Spike” (we didn’t know him but he was 80 something ...quite a character) anyway he pulled a chair up to our propert line to watch how we were going to get our grand piano up that driveway. He sat there almost the entire day eating lunch and beer! A great memory...we got it up the driveway with a lot of other things. It took two trucks!
Now I’m older and Boat Jobs are much more daunting...
 
John
The inspiration for my comment was born many years ago. We had just bought a Catalina 22 in a boatyard in Westbrook CT. Working on weekends to get the boat ready for the water took time. The boat next to us was left untouched until the day of our launch. A van pulls up to that boat, three young boys jump out, the oldest maybe 12, the wife unloads gear from the van. The husband takes out a lawn chair and a cooler and parks himself with a good view of the boat. The wife & kids get to work. they washed, waxed, bottom painted and loaded. The boat was launched right after ours and the man never lifted more than a beer. Amazing!!!

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
John
The inspiration for my comment was born many years ago. We had just bought a Catalina 22 in a boatyard in Westbrook CT. Working on weekends to get the boat ready for the water took time. The boat next to us was left untouched until the day of our launch. A van pulls up to that boat, three young boys jump out, the oldest maybe 12, the wife unloads gear from the van. The husband takes out a lawn chair and a cooler and parks himself with a good view of the boat. The wife & kids get to work. they washed, waxed, bottom painted and loaded. The boat was launched right after ours and the man never lifted more than a beer. Amazing!!!

Jim
Click to expand...
That’s a great arrangement ...:))
 
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