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Anchor Chain Survey-If you have a windlass, or were going to install one,

L

larry_dyer

Larry Dyer
what size and length all-chain anchor rode would you plan on? Notes: 5/16" hi-test has 3900 lb working load, weighs 1.5 lbs/ft, maybe 250' (375 lbs)or 3/8", 5400lb working, 250' @ 2.06/ft=(515) lbs? Whats your opinion? Thanks.....Larry
 
Larry
Afew years ago when we installed our windlass we went with 250' of G4 high tensile chain with a 35# CQR. The weight of the anchor, chain and windlass is just about equal to the 300 lbs of lead ingots we removed from the locker below the V-bunk. When we purchased it all we took the Defenders catalog, which had the lowest prices, to West Marine and they matched the price.
 
Larry. I keep 100 feet of 5/16 BBB in the anchor locker bent onto 250 feet of 3/4 inch nylon 3 strand on one end and a 35 lb CQR on the other. I have 50 feet of 3/8 in the wet locker. I want to add an additional 200 feet of 5/16 BBB and a third anchor somewhere between the mast and the companionway. I normally anchor where my bow roller is about 10 to 20 feet off the bottom and use a 4:1 scope unless the wind gets above force 4 and then go to 7:1 scope. This has worked for me in mud, sand and till.

Jay
 
I guess what I'm really asking is if 5/16 is strong enough. The 5/16 BBB shows a working load of 1900lbs. I'm shopping for a windlass, and the proper gypsy to size for the chain needed. Thanks for the help. Larry
 
OK, what windlass? I'm looking at the vertical models, to leave as much room as possible for a future inner forestay, also with a gypsy and capstan for rope. Any ideas here?...Larry
 
Larry,
The type of anchoring system you install depends largely on where you plan to cruise. If you don't stray too far from safe harbors and if the waters are relatively shallow, you can use almost any system you want since you won't require an anchor to hold you in storm conditions. If you cruise in remote places like I do, where I'm often far from a hurricane hole and the water can be quite deep, then your anchoring system needs to become serious and heavy. For example, on Aurora, I carry 300' of 5/16" G4 chain on my primary 60# CQR anchor and pull it up with a Horizon 1500 horizontal windlass. It was strong enough for Hurricane Juliette this year. The chain weighs in at 1.1#/foot, so the lead I took out under the forward berth is offset by the weight of the chain. I don't believe that 300' of 3/8" BBB would fit inside the locker, but it would be too heavy anyway at 1.7#/foot. My 300' of 5/16" G4 chain barely fits into the lower locker under the anchor locker, and it must be "de-castled" by someone as the chain is pulled in -- a significant hassle. I would not suggest that you use so much chain unless you're anchoring in places that are quite deep, such as out here on the Pacific coast or in the South Pacific.
I have a Solent stay on Aurora and am more than pleased with how well it works with my sail plan. The Solent stay mounts well forward at the deck and thus does not interfere with windlass placement.
Hope this helps...
Jim
 
Good advice, Jim..I'm still confused with the stay placement. Ted Brewer's advice and drawings show an inner forestay attached at the aft bulkhead (reinforced) of the anchor locker (FWD V-berth), which is about where I would put a horozontal windlass. I'm looking to use a double padeye for attachment. What is the difference between an inner forestay and a solent stay?...Larry
 
Larry,
A Solent stay is a relatively new sort of stay, brought on and made possible by headsail roller furling. A "normal" inner-forestay is parallel to the headstay and is set back from the stay far enough to allow tacking a headsail over and in front of the forestay. An inner forestay generally mounts low enough on the mast to require running backstays, plus it mounts far enough back on the foredeck to require some extra deck strengthening, such as with a bulkhead.
On the Morgan 38X, a Solent stay mounts as far forward on deck as you can put padeye fittings, which is within inches of the pointy end of the foredeck, well in front of the anchor locker. No special reinforcements are required here, other than normal backing plates. The upper end mounts at the same level as where the uppers connect to the mast, which is more than high enough to completely eliminate the need for running backs. It's a much simpler setup, but the downside is that you must roller-furl your headsail when tacking -- not much of a problem when cruising. My Solent stay deck connection has a quick disconnect lever on the stay that allows me to disconnect and stow the stay back towards the mast whenever conditions require short tacking.
As far as how it's used, I have a 130% RF headsail that never leaves the headstay, so I never have to pull it down and stow it below. It works down to about 85%, after which I roll it all the way in and then hank on a 100 sq. ft. storm stays'l on the Solent stay. At the other end of the wind, the Solent stay is used to hank on a drifter, which works reasonably well in light air, plus it's no where near as exciting to set and retrieve short-handed as a spinnaker can be. The hanked on drifter can be weatherly if need be because it has a straight luff. I cary no other sails (no room, anyway). I see the above as a good cruising compromise between speed, storage, foredeck safety, and convenience. It works for me but may not be for everybody.
Sorry about the length of the reply.
Fair winds...
Jim
 
Jim, Thanks for the reply, I'm going to talk to my sailmaker about this, it sounds like a hot setup.Is yours a "Brewer Boat??...Larry
 
Larry,
Yep, "Aurora" is a 1979 M382, hull #179. My wife and I live aboard and cruise the year-round. We are back in our home port in Southern California this month doing some gear upgrades and repairs, then it's off again.
Fairwinds...
Jim
 
The more I learn, the more I find I don't know! Periodically I review the board for old threads that might finally be meaningful to me. I'm stumped by the references here to lead ingots under the vee berth. My '78 382 Windsprint has none and there is only 8-10feet of chain on the two forward anchors. I have a 150genoa and in just 5-6ft seas I think that that extra weight would push the bow under the oncoming wave. Should I have this lead?
 
Tracy
The lead was put in the bow because the boat was designed to carry heavy anchoring gear and most didn't. The bow was too light and Morgan glassed in the lead (app 300 lbs)to get the boats to sit on their lines. If you are going to install a windlass and an all chain rode and a couple of spare anchors and rodes in the bow, you need to find and remove the lead. Look for a small sealed up hatch in the lower most and forward most place in the V-bunk. If you are lucky someone has already removed it or for some reason Morgan didn't put it in. If your not lucky and you find it, get yourself a 12" x 1/2" cold chisel and a lump hammer. You are about to embark on a couple of hellish days of hard work. Once the lead is gone you can then design and install an anchoring system without worrying about the adding of weight to the bow. By the way, do you have the under and over berths or the one level v-berth?

Jim
 
Another option is to install a bow sprit, the stay sail then attaches to the original headstay attachment point and does not interfere with windless placement or foredeck dingy carrying. Windwalker M382 #130 has had this setup for about 10 years. Moving the sail plain forward also corrects the 382 weather helm problem. I can send details if interested.
 
TRACY: about CHAIN. 5/16 HI-test is what I have and what I recommend. I use all chain rode and a Delta 44. My back-up anchor (CQR-45) uses chain and rope rode. The maxwell winch is also what I have and recommend. They are great machines. Arranging for stowage of the chain has tested us all. You need to get through the Anchor Locker floor and into the lower chain locker, with a big pipe of some sort. Most of us, I think, have the problem I do: the chain will not self-store. It builds up in a mound that must be knocked down by hand, or it jams the winch. that means, you can't bring the chain up from the cockpit alone. There may be ways to solve this problem--a couple discussed in past postings and maybe even shown on the photo gallery. I have my own idea which is too complicated to explain here, but I hve not implemented it.
 
My solution to the chain stacking problem is very simple and effective. You cannot allow the chain to fall straight down. Find a location no less than 1 foot below the windless and affix a board that will divert the chain away from directly beneath the windless. The idea is that the chain will strike this board and tumble off of it just after it starts to stack and fall to the bottom of the anchor locker. When it falls it will take the pile with it. Don't make it very big and don't affix it level. Place it at angle so that the chain cannot stack on the it. A 6 inch piece of 2X4 will work. I used an old pieace of pressure treated drift wood that I found floating next to Njord one morning. A gift from the anchor Gods.

Jay
 
Hi, Jay,

Thanks for the advice. I'll be installing a Maxwell Windlass with 250' of 5/16 HT this spring. One question; how do you prevent the chain from rubbing against the board when you're letting it out. Has this become a problem?

Regards,

Kevin
 
Hey, Jay: I can't quite visualize what you are saying, but I would like to understand it better. Did you wedge a piece of wood in there or really "attach it?" To what? the underside of the anchor locker? the inside of the hull? I must be missing something. Thanks.
 
First, I do not have an upper/lower anchor locker arrangement. It is just one big locker about 3 feet deep and looks like a three sided, upside down pyramid. The bulkhead between the V-berth and the locker slopes forward as it descends. The board rests against the inside of both the port and starboard hulls and the bulkhead. The chain strikes this bulkhead about 15 inches down from the deck. I placed this 30-inch, 2X4 board athwartship against the bulkhead. It is sloped to port. The chain strikes this board about 1 foot down, it then slides on the board to port side hull, cascades off the board and falls into the bottom of the locker. The windless is offset slightly to starboard. The chain wants to stack against the port side and tumbles against the starboard side. I can easily store 100 feet of 5/16 inch chain and about 30 feet of 3/4 inch nylon rode. There is about 200 feet more rode on a ledge forward of the chain. This rode must be placed on this ledge by hand. I rarely, if ever, use it. I never touch the chain. Chafe on the board by the chain has not been a problem. Regardless, it's a $1 board and can be easily replaced.

Hope this helps.

Jay
 
Well, Jay, if I were to take out the top shelf of my locker, I could do this. I have thought about that, but deferred that job because it provides me a place to keep my spare rode and other light gear. None the less, your idea may still help me and I intend to try it. Thanks. Next question: is your locker top sealed to the water, or does all the water that rains on the deck go into the locker, then into the bilge? Having an upper shelf also keeps rain out of the boat--although I plan to rebuild the locker hatch eventually so it will be more, although not completely, water tight.
 
Terry
Like you I kept the anchor locker on deck as is to stow a second anchor with it's rode and the rode for a third anchor. The chain from the windlass falls into the space below that locker via a 2 1/2" pipe. To knock down the pile without having to go below I installed a hawse pipe in the bottom of the on deck anchor locker. When I'm bringing the chain on board I use an oak stick through the hawse pipe to knock down the pile. This is done 2 or 3 times in the course of stowing about 90' of chain. At first it was cumbersome to work the controller (handheld), washdown hose and the stick. With practice it's become second nature and quite easy.

Jim
 
Terry. My anchor locker is not hydraulically connected to the cabin. The locker is not sealed to weather and there is a 5/8 inch drain hole in the bow that drains the locker. My windless is mounted on the fiberglass hatch. I cut the hatch in two pieces. The aft most piece is bolted in place with angle iron (ss) and the forward piece is use to look inside the locker. I also use this hatch to clean the dirt and mud out to keep the drain open. This hatch allowed me to devise the anti stacking solution. My theory is that you need to determine how the chain wants to pile up unassisted. Then all you need to do is install something (i.e. a pipe, board, ledge, or partition) which will prevent it from stacking where it chooses. Your devise should try to spread the base of the pile out as far as possible. I noticed that when left to its own will, my 100 feet of chain would stack up three feet high. This amazing structure looked like a stalagmite. It was only 6 inches in diameter at the base and there was never more than three links lined up before it folded back on itself. I had planned on building a partition directly under where it fell when the driftwood came floating by. All I had to do was to cut a small piece off and lay it in place.

Jay
 
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