• Welcome to this website/forum for people interested in the Morgan 38 Sailboat. Many of our members are 'owners' of Morgan 38s, but you don't need to be an owner to Register/Join.

Tabbing

R

rover4679

Adam Scarbrough
Yesterday while replacing the shower drain pump I noticed that the tabbing on the aft, head bulkhead had somwhat come loose. After further inspection I found that the lower section of the bulkhead is totaly rotten. I will change it out this weekend. Has anyone else had this issue? Does anyone know how much down force this bulkhead has on it with a full sail load?
 
Adam -

Are you talking about the bulkhead that's between the head and the main cabin, where the shower sump pump sits on a shelf under the sink? If memory serves, my 382 has a framed fiberglass bulkhead by the small locker in the head- running from the aft portion of the locker, to about halfway to the mast. I was just in there yesterday, also replacing the shower sump pump. There shouldn't be a lot of force exerted on the plywood bulkhead, which I believe is more decorative than structural. I would think the bulk of the rigidity in that area would come from the fiberglass cabin-top and the framed fiberglass holding up the cabin-top and deck sole.

Matt Fahey
 
The bulkheads add ridgidity to the hull and should be checked for rot or de-tanning. Remember that the hull was two parts and bonded together. The bulkheads tie the two together. This bulkhead was a recall in the early 80s for issues with the bonding.

All owners should see if their boat was repaired by factory reps. Look for cutouts in the sole to access bulkhead to hull tabbing repair/reinforcement. Look for sole drop around the mast and bulkheads.
Jim
 
No dropout here but I have several "quirks" with this boat such as what measures out to be a 383 or 384 rig on a 79 model 382. I also have 2, 60 gallon water tanks that seem to be factory. My main concern was the tabbing on what I thought was the main bulkhead supporting the mast area. The mast is out so I want to make sure that I do all I can to get another 30 years out of this boat. Should I do any "beefing up" of the glass blob under the mast step?
 
You should have a knowledgeable person (or possibly two) inspect this problem. It is difficult for anyone who hasn't seen it to provide you with proper repair advice.

Jay
 
It is also very important not to over tighten the rigging when you re-step the mast. This can put un-needed stresses on this area.

Some Morgans had a port water tank as an option. Is your boat a 6 foot draught model? As Jay said, I think it is a good idea to have at least two individuals inspect and recommend. Surveyors are often a good start. Get recommendations from the yard boss.

Do you still have lead in the forepeak?

Jim
 
Yes I have lead up front. I spoke to Ted Brewer today. His solution was to double up the bulkhead and glass in. I think this is what I'm going to do. Also spoke to Dick Kilroy, I now feel a lot more secure in the construction of my 30 year old boat.
 
I know it would take time to do it but it would be great to have all these little things that we talk about in pictures in the project section of the photo gallery. Good, bad and ugly we can all learn from other peoples repairs and upgrades. I'll take photos of the tabbing and mast step area and post if anyone is interested.
 
You do know that Morgan reps supposedly repaired all boats with this problem? Do you know if your boat had repairs done? Your sole would have been opened for access.
Jim
 
I would like to see pictures of this project added to the photo galley.

If someone tells me how I would be happy to add my pics of my efforts to glass over the anchor locker. I now enjoy a solid foredeck with a windlass and 12" cleats where they should be.
 
The sole of my boat has not been opened unless it was completely replaced, no cut outs. The bulkhead is tabbed on both sides but it was a very crappy job. The tabbing is almostg off on one side. I'll start on it Friday and take pics as I go.
 
Jesse,
The only tip I have is that you reduce the pictures to <1000 pixels in the longest dimension and reduce to about 350 dpi for ease of downloading and viewing on the site without having to scroll over the picture or wait for it to complete.

Most editors/viewers make this easy.

Alan Shapiro
s/v EMANON
 
Jesse! Look forward to see the pictures of the chain locker project, as I have toyed with the same idea of glassing over the hatch opening!

Hans-Edgar
s/v HAUGTUSSA
 
I do not understand glassing over the upper locker and loosing a valuable deck storage or quick anchor locker? In addition, the floor of this upper anchor/storage locker adds rigidity to the forepeak.

Just an opinion!

Jim
 
Ok, for what its worth, I cut the floor out. Now I have the access holes on each side of the bucket. It seems that "someone" did the Morgan fix but they took the sole out to do it. I can see where the IGU was cut for better access to the bulkhead. The starboard side was done really well, Very good tabbing and bonding to the hull. It looks like they even beefed up the bulkhead going under there. I guess thats why my cabin sole hasnt dropped in 30 years. It seems the only issue now is the rot on the port side. I boarded 2 382's yesterday and both had sole drop of about 1/2 inch, so I feel pretty good about mine. I'll post pics as soon as my wife brings my camera home.
 
I went out and looked at mine (hull 122) and the appears to be 1/2" drop of the sole in front of the mast. Dumb question perhaps but what is the problem? I'd rather not have the drop but after 30 yrs of sailing I would expect some minor distortion in a highly loaded area. How would I fix such an issue?
 
My first question would be, why fix something that isn't broken? This not a major concern you should lose sleep over. I would look at two things. The first is the tabbing around the head/salon bulkhead for integreity and second, proper standing rigging tension.

If both of these are okay, you are okay in my opinion. This is normal and if you anal you couldlevel the floor but I doubt it is worth the cost and effort!
Jim
 
On both of the boats I was on yesterday there was drop yet the tabbing looked good and there was no rot so I think Jim is right, why fix what isnt broken. The aft head bulhead is not connected to the cabin sole, it was tabbed to the hull then a sheet a vaneer put over the outside. It is most likely that the IGU just settled a little bit, either just from normal wear or rigging being to tight. Ive seen some discussion on here about the mast step bucket and possibly removing it but on my boat the bucket is somewhat riggid and is part of the IGU. It sits directly on the glass blob and ads strength to the IGU so Im glad I didnt cut it out. I'll have pics today.
 
Also, to state the obvious - you need a hole in the sole to snake the four mast wires to the terminal block underneath the galley sink.

Matt
 
This is the rotten bulkhead:
16989.jpg


This is the cutout:
16990.jpg


This is the filler piece being tabbed in:
16991.jpg


This is the "doubler" piece, glued, screwed and tabbed in with 2x heavy roving and 1x medium mat. All with West Epoxy.
16992.jpg


I'll post more when I clean and paint it. Also, I'll take some around the mast step area and the tabbing for the IGU.
 
It's looks from the pics that the thruhulls or head sink has been leaking for SOME time! It looks like a tough fix. What are your plans?
Jim
 
From the looks of it I think the issue was the tabbing that was done before. They covered the end of the bulkhead so I believe once it got a little water in the gap there was no way for it to dry. The boat has been on land for 5 years so I was a little suprised to find this although glad I found it now rather than later. The pics are a little deceiving because I took them after I had started knocking paint off to check for rot. When I first check it it LOOKED fine. The area was clean, dry and had a good coat of paint. I would have never known had I not pushed on the bottom of the bulkhead with a screwdriver. The one positive I got from this is that I have learned a lot about the mast step, IGU, bucket, IGU tabbing and feel 100% better about all of it. I'll clean up the rough areas and paint it tomorrow then on to the next project.
 
I cut all of the rot out. I replaced it with 3/4" marine plywood and tabbed it to the hull with roving and mat using West Epoxy with a little colloidal silica to fill voids and keep it in place. Then I made a backing piece of the same 3/4" plywood that was 5" larger than the piece I cut out and glued and screwed it to the backside of the bulkhead and tabbed it in as well. I had to cut a little higher than I wanted to so that I could be certain that I got all of the rot out so I lost about 2" of vaneer on the table side of the bulkhead. I have some 1/2" teak so I am going to cut a trim piece for that area. I did find some dry fiber (white dry glass) in the original tabbing although it seemed to be fairly solid. I cleaned all of that out with an 80 grit flapper wheel and expanded the tabbed area to about 4 or 5 inches on each side of the bulkhead. I put wax papper over the whole area while the resin was wet and rolled it to make sure I had all of the air out. The folks at West System told me that the secondary bond using the Epoxy Resin is greatly stronger than the original poly resin.
 
maluhia said:
The bulkheads add ridgidity to the hull and should be checked for rot or de-tanning. Remember that the hull was two parts and bonded together. The bulkheads tie the two together. This bulkhead was a recall in the early 80s for issues with the bonding.

All owners should see if their boat was repaired by factory reps. Look for cutouts in the sole to access bulkhead to hull tabbing repair/reinforcement. Look for sole drop around the mast and bulkheads.
Jim
Click to expand...
Jim-

I know this is an old post, but I'm hoping you could elaborate a little on the "sole drop"...I just purchased a 1980 382 and noticed that it has a significant drop in the sole at the bulkhead between the salon and head. Would this be a sign of the bulkhead being repaired by a factory rep, or is it now in desperate need of repair? There is no mention of any damage to the bulkhead in the survey..
 
Depends on what you call "significant." Some of use have noted a drop of up to 1/2" in the cabin sole next to the mast bucket. In my case, the sole bends down around the bucket as the bucket drops a bit when the rig is tightened. Those of use with this 1/2" drop have sailed with it, without mishap. The early boats, I think, had no or little tabbing on the aft head bulkhead, which of course was a major problem. That was not true on my boat (#163) and should not be true on a 1980 model. But there may have been some repair done on mine, since the sole was cut away on each side of the bucket. Is yours? Either originally or on recall on mine, the bucket was itself glassed to the hull along its port and starboard sides. Also, there was some attempt, either at construction or thereafter, to put some resin and glass between the bottom of the bucket and the top of the ballast. Otherwise, the bottom of the bucket had nothing to press against. The whole bucket thing was a Morgan, not Brewer decision, I think. In the 383 and 4, I think, Morgan increased the layup schedule on the hull in way of the mast and let the mast sit on the encapsulated ballast. A better design. If your sole drop is more than 1/2", your surveyor should have noted it for you. But some surveyors are better than others.
 
Thanks for that information Terry. The sole in my boat, #197, has about a 1/2" drop. It isn't significant enough that I'm worried about it, but since I ran across this old thread I didn't figure it would hurt to inquire. I am not currently at the boat, but once I get back to it in early March I will definitely have a look at the mast bucket to see what's going on there. I'll post some pics to this thread of the sole and of the bucket. Thanks again.
 
Terry,
Have you removed the sole of your boat? I plan to do so after my circumnavigation to inspect several areas. Around the bucket, the tabbing, and fuel tank.
 
Hello,
I've removed the sole on albatross. The tabbing was lacking on The head bulkhead, had started pulling apart a bit. No tabbing on the galley bulkheads or on stbd side, and flexed Tabbing on the stbd water tank broke while sailing upwind in 25kn for a week straight en route from Beaufort NC to Puerto Rico... Easy to fix but i wish I'd have reinforced before it broke. I love my 1980 382!
Ps, my mast bucket is also about. 5" below og, she has had the factory fix with the sole cut out beside the mast. Ihave, would and will continue to sail this baby any and everywhere.
TallyHo!
Capt T
Sv Albatross
 
My sole was covered with a teak and holly veneer by a previous owner. It looked factory and wasn't noticed until some dry rot that came through the veneer near the door to the v berth.

I also have .5 to .75 inch drop of the sole. More interesting, the fuel tank might not be factory. Mine is metal, not fiberglass. There is no inspection plate. The sending unit and hose connections are all easy to access through the settee drawer.
 
if your fuel tank is metal, I assume aluminum, it definitely is not original. I don’t remember if you had posted your hull number. Mine is 74 of the 38-2 and I definitely have a fiberglass tank I have the gauges etc. the gauge still works to give me the level of the tank after these 44 years. My soul since the repair has dropped somewhere in the area of 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch. I was one of the original boats to claim the damage and Morgan paid A lot of money to Stanley’s boat Yard in Bristol Rhode Island to have this repair done. Mine included a crack in the hall forward of the mast step. I feel because of the extreme measure of my repair I do not have any further drops in the mast area. I have never opened up the entire sole to look it over because I never felt it necessary. Any questions from anyone I will be happy to answer
 
if warrens hull number is higher than mine, the only thing I can think of is it could’ve been a hull construction, after this problem showed up As a possible solution. This would’ve obviously been for the 38–3 and a 38–4 Series. But I believe they also have the fiberglass fuel tanks.
 
Just a note, I remember hearing of a number of unfinished hulls or partially completed boats, that were sold after Morgan had financial problems in the late 80's. I believe it's a good idea to inspect any bulkhead tabbing you can access to make sure it is not separating.

Jim
 
This is the most informative site I’ve ever been too and is Extremely helpful thanks for being here ,I look forward to aquiring the knowledge it brings us !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top