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Racing Morgan 382 sailing fast tips

General Formula for estimating boat speed potential...yes lots of other variables but this is a start.
  • Velocity = (g * Length / 2 pi) ^ ½
  • g = acceleration of gravity (32.15 ft/sec ^2)
  • Convert ft./sec. to Knots and the result is 1.34 * L^½
  • Metric V(m/s) = 1.25* LWL^1/2
Another pretty reasonable calculator but as with most calculators it doesn't take into account keel and rudder size, etc. Designer Bob Perry has some really spot on formulas if you care to investigate. You will learn a lot about just why and what Ted Brewer had in mind re-designing the Morgan 382 ...don't forget Jack Corey...he was part of it too.
http://www.psychosnail.com/boatspeedcalculator.aspx
 
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This years 2016 race results for our Morgan 382

2nd Place 2016 Lake Champlain Billado Series
4th place Lake Champlain Championship Series
3rd in the last race of the season "Hot Ruddered Bum" 0-3 knots of wind!
 
hallelujah said:
Congratulations, John!
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Thanks...the last race was the toughest of the season...that Sabre 36 always wins...maybe it was the rum! We have a lot of great people. A couple of world record holders too. Good to hear from you.
 
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Results from this years racing ...2nd place overall...
We got a third in the last race of the season against some formidable competitors in 0-3 knots of wind...very happy.
 
John
I'm not a racer but I like to follow what the people who tear up $100 bills are doing. Next month is the start of the Vendee Globe race which is a truly awesome spectacle. There are two Americans, Rich Wilson (age 66) and Conrad Coleman, entered this year. My two Daughters-in-law are both school teachers and Racer Wilson has set up a K-12 teaching program for students to follow the race. In addition to your updates on the M38 board about racing, I like to read a web posting called "Scuttlebutt Sailing News". They cover sailboat racing around the world of all types. If you google the name you can get on their email list. If you can't find them, I'll forward the next issue to you if you give me an email address.

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
John
I'm not a racer but I like to follow what the people who tear up $100 bills are doing. Next month is the start of the Vendee Globe race which is a truly awesome spectacle. There are two Americans, Rich Wilson (age 66) and Conrad Coleman, entered this year. My two Daughters-in-law are both school teachers and Racer Wilson has set up a K-12 teaching program for students to follow the race. In addition to your updates on the M38 board about racing, I like to read a web posting called "Scuttlebutt Sailing News". They cover sailboat racing around the world of all types. If you google the name you can get on their email list. If you can't find them, I'll forward the next issue to you if you give me an email address.

Jim
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Hey Jim...that's very kind of you. I do read Scuttlebutt...but I always forget to check it out. That's great about the K12 program. We are losing our youth to other things. We would like to follow along...message me your email and I'll send you mine.
One race we'll be watching for sure is this one...http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/home.html
We watched it before was amazing how competitors could sail clear around the world and still see each other much if the race...the finishes were incredible...often side by side.
 
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John
My email is: saildana382@msn.com. The web site for the Vendee Globe for Rich Wilson is: sitesalive.com. You can sign up to have weekly updates and info sent to you. I followed the Volvo race last time but found their coverage was spotty. There was one boat that ran aground in the South China Sea but they would never pinpoint where it happened or why it happened.

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
John
My email is: saildana382@msn.com. The web site for the Vendee Globe for Rich Wilson is: sitesalive.com. You can sign up to have weekly updates and info sent to you. I followed the Volvo race last time but found their coverage was spotty. There was one boat that ran aground in the South China Sea but they would never pinpoint where it happened or why it happened.

Jim
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We watched it streamed live off their internet site and had it set up to our big screen TV...fantastic to watch "live"...neat site...I see Rich Wilson...
 
I was fortunate to meet Rich Wilson through a mutual friend and hear him talk at Mystic Seaport a few years back. An incredible person. How he and the others can keep their attitude up in some of the stuff they have to face out there is astounding. And I am always amazed at the amount of athleticism they must have and the training they put in. I found especially fascinating how they are able to get themselves to go right to REM sleep and then waking up 20+ minutes later fully awake. I shook his hand and haven't washed that hand since!
 
captpete said:
I was fortunate to meet Rich Wilson through a mutual friend and hear him talk at Mystic Seaport a few years back. An incredible person. How he and the others can keep their attitude up in some of the stuff they have to face out there is astounding. And I am always amazed at the amount of athleticism they must have and the training they put in. I found especially fascinating how they are able to get themselves to go right to REM sleep and then waking up 20+ minutes later fully awake. I shook his hand and haven't washed that hand since!
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Pretty amazing...I got a chance to sail with Dennis Conners when living in Calif.
I think back at how he had this incredible ability to judge speed and distance to come up with spit on Arrival Times to marks...
I like Wilsons ...turn off the tv, get off the couch go sailing...motto
 
Pete & John
I am amazed that at 66 years of age Rich Wilson is going to take on this adventure. I'm 66 and fairly fit and I wouldn't dream of sailing in a race like that. Well, maybe I'd dream about it but that's as far as that gets. As much as I think the French are nuts, I am going to follow the two Americans in this race.

Jim
 
Those elite sailors whether solo circumnavigators or Americas cup sailors are in a class of their own. Smart, fearless, competitive as hell, incredibly fit, phenomenal mental and physical stamina, and unique innate sailing ability. Speaking of Dennis Connor, many years ago my boss was the Danish equivalent. A world ranked match sailor, Olympic gold medalist, and short lived Danish Americas cup entry skipper. In a country of sailors he was a rock star - we never had to buy a drink in the Danish bars. One day I went sailing on his boat - a Frers designed Beneteau first 435 - with some German customers. While the captain entertained the Germans i did the boat stuff. Without looking while he was opening a bottle of wine he suggested 3 more inches of jib halyard tension would be in order. I made the adjustment and we picked up half a knot - to this day i dont know how he knew that without even looking! I still struggle with the mysteries of basic sail trim!
 
captpete said:
Those elite sailors whether solo circumnavigators or Americas cup sailors are in a class of their own. Smart, fearless, competitive as hell, incredibly fit, phenomenal mental and physical stamina, and unique innate sailing ability. Speaking of Dennis Connor, many years ago my boss was the Danish equivalent. A world ranked match sailor, Olympic gold medalist, and short lived Danish Americas cup entry skipper. In a country of sailors he was a rock star - we never had to buy a drink in the Danish bars. One day I went sailing on his boat - a Frers designed Beneteau first 435 - with some German customers. While the captain entertained the Germans i did the boat stuff. Without looking while he was opening a bottle of wine he suggested 3 more inches of jib halyard tension would be in order. I made the adjustment and we picked up half a knot - to this day i dont know how he knew that without even looking! I still struggle with the mysteries of basic sail trim!
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Yes...my wife adjusts things just a half an inch And gets a quarter knot...love it...this year we stayed up all night on the RC boat for an over night race MacDonough (in honor of the battle and course sailed) We were not even racing but we were exhausted...an eye opener ...being my sixties too.
 
Pete
A very good friend of mine was a 505 World champion sailing with Britton Chance. He is now 76 years old and still rides his racing bike 20-25 miles a couple of times a week. He's my Idol.

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
Pete
A very good friend of mine was a 505 World champion sailing with Britton Chance. He is now 76 years old and still rides his racing bike 20-25 miles a couple of times a week. He's my Idol.

Jim
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That's great...maybe there is still hope...⛵️
 
I recently attended a memorial service for a friend's Father. There were many Business and Labor leaders there. I was shocked to realize that many of these "old" men were younger then me. Think I'll keep sailing my boat and thinking I'm still in my 40s.

Jim
 
jimcleary said:
I recently attended a memorial service for a friend's Father. There were many Business and Labor leaders there. I was shocked to realize that many of these "old" men were younger then me. Think I'll keep sailing my boat and thinking I'm still in my 40s.

Jim
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Know what you mean...I keep asking "where'd I go?!"
 
John
As was well pursued in an earlier thread, I think our boats have the ability and the duty to keep us younger then we are. At least keep us feeling younger.

Jim
 
Has anyone gone from an ablative bottom paint to VC 17? If so...did you notice a speed difference? How much difference?
 
I’m guessing that no one but us does any serious racing of any kind on a regular basis. Just Warren H seems to be taking a crack at it. In a good venue too.
It seems that most owners are not interested in “speed” and “performance”.
It’s validated by the sheer amount of “motor home like topics”...
In the old days 60’s and 70’s it was easy to get a boaters together to race to hone sailing skills like handling and trim.
I know a few long time owners used to race but don’t anymore.
The disparity in the PHRF ratings of the Morgan at 138-150 or so validate the problems. When boats with 24-25’ waterlines pass a Morgan regularly in 15-20 knots of wind it’s very telling.
The Morgan is a great cruising vessel and I would leave it at that. Unless you are racing against similarly weighted, designed modified fat full keel skew hung rudder with a deep V hull ...well I believe that’s why, even though we have the sailors, we don’t have the racers any more. Participation has significantly dropped. The America’s Cup and other races are dismal,y covered here in the states. You would think that just buying the very thing that makes a sail boat a sailboat...”sails” would involve more that how cheap they can be purchased.
I guess racing has been dying for some time...only in isolated areas anymore.
 
John

I feel the loss of sailors racing is proportionate to the loss of people sailing in general. Whether it's because of a lack of discretionary money, or a lack of discretionary time, or an obsession with video games, there has been a downturn in the number of people who are getting into the sport of sailing. Here on the Western end of Long Island Sound, Yacht Club memberships are plummeting. That fact covers the spectrum of Clubs From Larchmont and Sea Cliff Yacht Clubs to my little blue collar Glen Cove Yacht Club.
For a long time now I blamed the boat manufacturers and the sailing media. They have long since stopped trying to entice the entry level sailor to start small and work up. The found they make more profit building one 40' boat then from building six 22' boats. So why build the 22' footers? When we first began sailing in the 1970s, the average boat displayed in Sail Magazine was 27' to 30'. Now, I would venture to guess that the average LOD displayed is in the neighborhood of 45' to 50'. If people don't have little boats to start out in, they'll never move up to the 40 footers.
The problem of sailing events being dismally covered here in the States is not the total issue. When the America's Cup was being raced in 12 meter boats, it was still sailors using their wits against other sailors. We sailors could relate to that. Now with the hydraulically operated winged
foily things, no one can relate.
As I have said quite often, I am not a sailboat racer. I do follow the big races going on worldwide. I also read the Scuttlebutt website that concerns sailboat racing. So I believe that the problem is not that there are less sailors racing, it's more that there are less sailors in the sport in total.
What to do about that, I haven't a clue!

Jim
 
RE: Bottom paint. I don't know much about ablative vs VC 17. I think it has more to do with Salt vs. Fresh, and if you haul out over the winter. I know that some paints lose their antifoul properties if they are hauled out for more than 48 hours or so, and salt fouls *very* fast if the paint is old. I recently attended a seminar on bottom prep for racing. I would suspect type of paint isn't as important as quality of the job. Rolling on a think coat is the worst way to do it. 4 or more thin coats while sanding between and sanding the final makes a big difference. Much of the seminar was discussing water separation due to poor surface quality. In particular on the rudder and keel surface, the rudder will produce far more lift at a given angle, and allow a greater angle before it stalls and turns into just drag, if the surface is not smooth. Also attention to detail on the trailing edge of the rudder and keel. Both should be chamfered to a point so water flow from either side can smoothly re join instead of creating eddies, which cause drag, separation, and stalling.
 
VC17 is proported to be the fastest...it’s on all fresh water race boats that don’t stay out during non race days. Did they tell you how much drag per square foot one surface over another causes? Who gave the seminar? Tom Whidden and Peter Isler are pretty knowledable. When sailing with Dennis Conners in San Diego years ago he flatly stated as as Alan Shedd from this forum it didn’t make as big a difference as just good sailing and tactics. You need a good smooth bottom. Curious what your take away was about paint and difference of hull preps.
 
The speaker was from Owen Clarke Design. I don't recall any specific numbers. He did say that if time and money is prohibitive, the leading 1/3 of the boat (and leading 1/3rd of keel) is what is important, and at least get that as smooth as you can. Most was focusing on the keel and rudder. That if you can get 15% more lift from the same rudder angle, that means less rudder is required and much less drag. And the killers of lift on a rudder were not having a smooth surface, and not having a point at the trailing edge. It didn't have to be a thin point, a 45deg angle would do. But a rounded edge would cause the rudder to stall and lose lift. SImilarly, a rough surface would cause turbulence over the rudder and kill lift. It seemed like getting the rudder right was more important than achieving perfection everywhere else. The point about good sailing can't be overstated. If we aren't sailing our boats well, then nothing is going to make them any faster. Even tactics I think only makes a difference between two boats that are both sailed well.

Powerpoint is here, but isn't much to go from without the speaker:
https://pacificcup.org/sites/default/files/kbfiles/Appendages MO Pacific Cup V1.pdf
 
I think all of what you stated seems to be about right. Same thing Conners said back in the seventies. I trust most of what he said but that was then with the technology they had for measuring drag etc. the new mono hills are hitting speeds over 30knots now...not planing either. So some of the old ascribed to math theory doesn’t hold up.
The 382 Morgan’s don’t sail anywhere near 138-150 phrf. I don’t think anyone ever took the time to do the math. A 16-20 thousand pound boat, V shaped ocean going hull, modified FAT full keel (good lift reaching but that’s it) skeg hung rudder, SA/D of 16...just not going to do it except under certain conditions.
All that said it’s a joy to sail for the very same design reasons. It’s stable, gentle, easy on the crew and just has those great classic lines that look so appealing to the eye...even people who don’t know anything about boats.
 
Question for John, All of the morgan 38's i know of (skipping the 6'ft models) draw 5'3" instead of 5' . I have always thought this was because of all the gear we put onboard. What does your unencumbered morgan draw?
 
royaltern said:
Question for John, All of the morgan 38's i know of (skipping the 6'ft models) draw 5'3" instead of 5' . I have always thought this was because of all the gear we put onboard. What does your unencumbered morgan draw?
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Good question...we have measured 3 different boats on the hard. They all were slightly different...
One was 5’6” ours
Another 5’4”
Third 5’3”
Another 6’ was just under 6’
In fresh water the boats sit slightly lower. I had the formula but you can figure it how and why.
That said in fresh water we sit almost 2” higher. Remember we rarely sail standing on her feet so the keel is in the water still.The Morgan 382-383’s that we’ve seen in Salt water with more buoyancy and loaded sat just about right on their lines. We see lots of boats sitting stern heavy. Too much crap hanging off the back. The good thing is these boats can hold a lot of stuff...just need to balance things out fore and aft. Better yet towards the low center of the boat. But to answer your question upright on her feet we draw about 5’2” with half tank of fuel and 29 gals of fresh water in the starboard tank. 6 in the hot water tank.
The rest of the time when we are loaded which isn’t too often...only an inch and a half down almost to our painted water line.
 
I have a 384 and when i cruise i set the depth on space below the keel I call it 5.4 draft ! I have it on my depth sounder water under the keel 5'4" draft ! So in Florida when i see 2 feet i get concerned. All florida is skinny water except 20 miles out ! Than you get 24 feet !
 
I have a 1978 6 ft draft boat in SF bay. I repainted the waterline up 3 inches up years ago. I claim 6'6" to account for equipment and water saturation. FWIW I have removed the 6 gallon hot water heater, head and fore peak doors..they just get in the way, and (4 ) LIFePo4 batteries @ 28#'s each in a quest to get the weight out. The Schumacher rudder (now almost 20 years old) weighed 30#'s less than the OEM. The stern has come up over 2 inches. I really want to convert to all Dyneema DUX standing rigging. But ya blow one tack and your sucking gas forever. But it's fun to just muck about with all the variables.
Years ago when my pay grade was higher I had the bottom sprayed with VC17. Now I Use (1) gallon of Trinidad SR thinned 100% with 75% brushing reducer and 25% Penetrol, 1/4" nap roller, tipped with a brush every other year.
I have been using VC17 since 1995 that I can spray with an airless sprayer on our '95 MasterCraft Prostar 190 that spends 6 months each year in the Sacramento river. Best damn paint ever in fresh water and lasts about 4 years.
Salt water with VC75 on the Morgan....Meh!
Although we spend 6 months in salt water and 6 months in fresh I cannot say I have observed the boat floating higher or lower.
I have almost completed a SeaDek, EVA, 5mm foam traction pad installation in the cockpit, weather deck and coach roof. Sea trials to follow but it's grippy wet or dry and it's like walking on a cloud.
 
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