Race Results

[Warren Holybee]

I had my first race today. I am pretty happy with our showing. My first time racing the Morgan, and my first time sailing with this crew, none of which had even seen a Morgan. We had a great start, which was probably just luck. We came in 5 out of 10 boats. We were 5:13 corrected behind the first place boat. I got the whole race on video and will process it and post it tomorrow.

 

[wild382]

I had my first race today. I am pretty happy with our showing. My first time racing the Morgan, and my first time sailing with this crew, none of which had even seen a Morgan. We had a great start, which was probably just luck. We came in 5 out of 10 boats. We were 5:13 corrected behind the first place boat. I got the whole race on video and will process it and post it tomorrow.View attachment 6422

Congrats Warren...can't wait to see the video! It would be nice to be able to see the model of the other vessels.
4.3 NM course...that's about one leg on our courses. Hope to see more of you racing...I like the title of the post...)

 

[Warren Holybee]

 

[Warren Holybee]

Congrats Warren...can't wait to see the video! It would be nice to be able to see the model of the other vessels.
4.3 NM course...that's about one leg on our courses. Hope to see more of you racing...I like the title of the post...)

You can browse the race results, and participant list with boat model and ratings here:
http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/11683#_home

It's a shame I missed the first race in the series, the DNC puts me at the bottom of the group for overall place.

 

[wild382]

You can browse the race results, and participant list with boat model and ratings here:
http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/11683#_home

It's a shame I missed the first race in the series, the DNC puts me at the bottom of the group for overall place.

I absolutely love this! You have to fill us all in on the camera, software, etc on how you captured this. Can't wait to see the next one!
Again...mention to the RC that it would be helpful to include the model vessel...I.e. Morgan 382, Catalina 36, C & C ...etc.
Also...who's who on the crew? Helm, trim etc. what was the wind, current, etc.
Looks like it was a challange

 

[Warren Holybee]

The camera is a Garmin VIRB. Software is VIRB edit from the Garmin website. The camera is basically like a go-pro with a GPS built in. The VIRB edit software reads the GPS data and overlays it on the video. The raw video form the camera doesn't have the overlay. Super simple to do. There is also a way to pull NMEA data from the boats instruments and include that as well, so you have overlays for wind speed and direction, boat heal, etc.

 

[wild382]

The camera is a Garmin VIRB. Software is VIRB edit from the Garmin website. The camera is basically like a go-pro with a GPS built in. The VIRB edit software reads the GPS data and overlays it on the video. The raw video form the camera doesn't have the overlay. Super simple to do. There is also a way to pull NMEA data from the boats instruments and include that as well, so you have overlays for wind speed and direction, boat heal, etc.

What about the rest...who's driving? Wind speed? Crew

 

[Warren Holybee]

So I am looking at the video closer now. On our first upwind leg we stayed on starboard tack for quite a while, and tacked about with the rest of the fleet. One boat started on port tack and a few tacked to port very quickly. On our second upwind leg we stayed on port tack after rounding the mark. Port tack was 3:30 faster. That would would have put us in 3rd place, and only 20 seconds out of 2nd place. Given we have room for improvement on boat handling, 2nd or even first seems very achievable. I'm so pleased with how the boat did The low moment of the evening, just after the race we jibe and the mainsheet grabs my handheld VHF and throws it overboard. If you look close you can see it fly in the video.

 

[Warren Holybee]

What about the rest...who's driving? Wind speed? Crew

Crew was 3 random people I found online. None of us had sailed together before. We meshed really well, and all had good sailing and trim knowledge. One person had raced an old Pearson Vanguard on lake Erie. Another had raced a variety of boats in Chili. Both were new to the area and hadn't even sailed SF Bay yet. I was mostly tactician and a floater. I was on port Jib sheet at the start of the race. I only took the helm for a short time when my position at the wench provided me a better view of both the sails and a boat we were hoping to pass but didn't.

Wind speed was gusty in the 15-20 kt range. I had the first reef in the Main, we might had done better also reefing the jib. The main was let out for large portions of the race and we weren't pointing very high. I don't think any of the other boats were reefed at all, and some were very clearly overpowered.

 

[wild382]

Crew was 3 random people I found online. None of us had sailed together before. We meshed really well, and all had good sailing and trim knowledge. One person had raced an old Pearson Vanguard on lake Erie. Another had raced a variety of boats in Chili. Both were new to the area and hadn't even sailed SF Bay yet. I was mostly tactician and a floater. I was on port Jib sheet at the start of the race. I only took the helm for a short time when my position at the wench provided me a better view of both the sails and a boat we were hoping to pass but didn't.

Wind speed was gusty in the 15-20 kt range. I had the first reef in the Main, we might had done better also reefing the jib. The main was let out for large portions of the race and we weren't pointing very high. I don't think any of the other boats were reefed at all, and some were very clearly overpowered.

Maybe could have used a little more "twist" in main and head sail. Who was driving? He seemed to be doing pretty good. You are very lucky to have gotten a crew together. Will they race again? That would be ideal to have a consistent crew. Keep the boat at 15-20 degrees as much as possible. You could actually see the speed scrub off as it heeled. Max speed on a beat is about 5-6.2 knots like I said in 8-20 knots of wind.
Also, looked like...a "set it and forget it" strategy was in play most of the time with the sail trim. Easing and trimming the main could be a big help...those little gains of a 1/10 of a knot here and there really add up. Put a trimmer at the main sheet. What model Garmin was it?

 

[rolf]

Another vote for the video, I loved watching the speed shifts and tactics. Very cool, it made me want to race again.

 

[wild382]

Dodger down, anchor off, Bimini removal next...preparing for "race practice"...note 3.4 knots of wind and we are doing 3.1 knots SOG. Sailing by herself practically. I'm going forward to make a fair lead block adjustment for our next tack...passed a Beneteau 38.5 First a much faster boat just not trimmed well. The owner noted we were making him have to work. Sailing in conditions like this is "dreamy!". Light from above says it all to us.

 

[Warren Holybee]

I don't have the video up yet for this week, I forgot the camera on my boat, but I'll get it this weekend. Results were similar. We didn't start as well, finished 6th, 5:30 behind 1st place.

I bought a gauge and worked hard to keep heal < 20 degrees. Is there a point that isn't possible, or where the wind is strong enough that it will power the boat over hull speed at great heal, and by reducing sail/heal you slow down?

Prior to the race we were practicing in a pretty constant 27kt wind. Mainsail was reefed and eased so it was luffing. 110% jib was not reefed, but I had the car way back for twist. We were pointing at about 33 degrees or so, making over 8 kts, close to 9 at times, and healed to 40 degrees. For comparison I reefed the jib, adjusted the car, and trimmed for speed, pointing, and <20 heal. Out pointing ability dropped to about 40 degrees, and speed to about 7.5.

Wind dropped off quite a bit for the race. We had little trouble keeping 20 degrees heal for most of it, and shook the reef out of the main during the first downwind leg.

 

[wild382]

I don't have the video up yet for this week, I forgot the camera on my boat, but I'll get it this weekend. Results were similar. We didn't start as well, finished 6th, 5:30 behind 1st place.

I bought a gauge and worked hard to keep heal < 20 degrees. Is there a point that isn't possible, or where the wind is strong enough that it will power the boat over hull speed at great heal, and by reducing sail/heal you slow down?

Prior to the race we were practicing in a pretty constant 27kt wind. Mainsail was reefed and eased so it was luffing. 110% jib was not reefed, but I had the car way back for twist. We were pointing at about 33 degrees or so, making over 8 kts, close to 9 at times, and healed to 40 degrees. For comparison I reefed the jib, adjusted the car, and trimmed for speed, pointing, and <20 heal. Out pointing ability dropped to about 40 degrees, and speed to about 7.5.

Wind dropped off quite a bit for the race. We had little trouble keeping 20 degrees heal for most of it, and shook the reef out of the main during the first downwind leg.

Can't wait to see the video. They help a lot in seeing what was going on. 15-20 heel is optimal depending on the wind velocity. There are a few instances where 15 degrees in light air will you with host speed. There is also a couple instances where more than 20 degrees at high velocity lie you described sure desirable for max speed. I'm assuming you are looking at paddle wheel speed and not SOG. The boats Polars show that it does not go faster than 6.2 knots at 30 degrees apparent in 20 knots of wind. You can do 8 on a broad reach in 20. Your place is typical looking across a lot of races with Morgan's. This is why I want more racers. Getting the PHRF moved to 180-190 is more in line with what the boat really does. I'm seeing ratings of a couple 178-190 on lakes like we are. That puts us more in line competively. You know something is not right when you have 16 knots of wind and a Dufour 31 goes sailing by on a beat! It's rating is 201.

 

[Warren Holybee]

Yes, paddle wheel speed. It's a new install, and I did the calibration procedure, but other than that don't have any insurance it is accurate. It does read close to my GPS at slack tide.

Where can I get the boat's Polars? Do I have to do that myself?

 

[wild382]

Yes, paddle wheel speed. It's a new install, and I did the calibration procedure, but other than that don't have any insurance it is accurate. It does read close to my GPS at slack tide.

Where can I get the boat's Polars? Do I have to do that myself?

Yes...you would want to sail only on SOG ...your real speed...paddle wheels change all the time and they are notoriously inaccurate especially when placed on one side of the hull. I have the Polars ...I don't know of anyone else who does. What I can tell you is if you take the time and fo the math our top speed beating at 32 degrees aparent in 20 knots is 6.2 knots. A lot of boats with much highe PHRF ratings (like 201) still go flying by ...the more of us that race the Morgan the better chance we have of getting the rating adjusted up to 180-190.
It's not a fast boat by today's standards, does not point as high as a fin keel with spade rudder and at 16 sail area /displacement it's a cruiser. That said I don't be,I've it ever should of had a 138-144 base rating. I've offered numerous "expert sailers" real money (over a $1,000 even $5,000) to demonstrate that the boat can sail to that number... No takers...I wouldn't do that now but I offered it when I was in the heat of arguing the rating...

 

[Warren Holybee]

My issue with SOG is that SF bay currents can be 4kts at times. I have sailed a boat speed of 3 kts and been moving backwards. Typically you can expect 2 kts or more at some point during the day. A significant part of learning to sail is SF is learning to read the currents section of the tide books, and planning your day so currents work with you, not against you. So in terms of comparing my performance from one race to another, GPS SOG is essentially useless. I do clean the paddlewheel each time I go out. I don't know how each tack compares yet, nor do I know how linear the accuracy it. I calibrated it at 4.5 knots, so at that speed it should be pretty close.

Something I may work on. My sailmaker is on the local PHRF committee. He also expressed an interest in sailing with me, he really seemed to like my boat when he installed the sails. I'd love to have him on board during a race. Maybe he could be an ally to get the rating adjusted.

 

[wild382]

My issue with SOG is that SF bay currents can be 4kts at times. I have sailed a boat speed of 3 kts and been moving backwards. Typically you can expect 2 kts or more at some point during the day. A significant part of learning to sail is SF is learning to read the currents section of the tide books, and planning your day so currents work with you, not against you. So in terms of comparing my performance from one race to another, GPS SOG is essentially useless. I do clean the paddlewheel each time I go out. I don't know how each tack compares yet, nor do I know how linear the accuracy it. I calibrated it at 4.5 knots, so at that speed it should be pretty close.

Something I may work on. My sailmaker is on the local PHRF committee. He also expressed an interest in sailing with me, he really seemed to like my boat when he installed the sails. I'd love to have him on board during a race. Maybe he could be an ally to get the rating adjusted.

I see your point on current and tides...we sail on a lake. Well the Polars are the Polars so I'm not knowledgable enough to know how to deal with that. I'd know paddles are way off ...we get 8-9 knots on one tack and 6-7 on the other. The faster one is on the paddle side. We are calibrated in flat water. After that it's a crap shoot. You can adjust on some of them to compensate for the two different tacks. We can talk ...I have all the Polars and speeds on all points of sail computerized from 8 knots true to 20 knots true. Either US Sailing or USYS have them at a price. Check before you buy that they are the official certified ones for the Morgan 382. There are a few bogus ones floating around ...

 

[wild382]

Warren
We have been able to "sail to our Polars" most of the time. We do make navigational errors (i.e. Sail farther than necessary or not far enough) slow tacks, steering straight, not easing or trimming fast enough to adjust for changing conditions, etc.
That said, we are no different than the other competitors we race against. They do the same thing.
We still get passed regularly by boats that are suppose to be rated at 186 or even 225, that often puts us at the back of the pack no matter what we do. This is on a beat for beat track, not the entire course. Downwind is even worse. It is frustrating to know you are sailing as well as your boats design will allow but still not going as fast as the other boats around you (or in front of you I should say.)
Not enough Morgan 382 boats are raced. I still say if anyone took the time to do the math with the weight, sail area, hull design, full modified keel, skeg hung rudder vs spade, deeper V hull, and more I find it hard to believe these boats ever really could rate at 150 let alone 138-144 PHRF base. We are using sails that were not even available when the boats had that rating...I hope you and others keep racing though for the other reasons...it makes you a better sailor. I'm sure you are experiencing what I'm talking about.

 

[Warren Holybee]

I looked at the polars on the US Sailing site. I'll probably get them, but not ready to pull the trigger on that price yet. I didn't realize they were calculated, not from actual tests. In any case I think it's an important thing to reference for anyone racing, or even cruising if you want to make best use of your time. It could be the difference of several days if you are crossing an ocean.

I had a GREAT sail today. Me and Marty, the helmsman I race with. Very casual, we went out the gate and down the coast just a bit before turning around and heading back. It was the kind of sailing I really love this boat for. About 12 kts of wind sailing about 5. I set the wheel brake, and touched nothing for 15 minutes at a time. Several times we would be chatting and the boat would slow and we were "oh yeah, no one is steering the boat." When we did need to adjust, sometimes it felt easier to trim the main to steer the boat back into the grove instead of the wheel. Just enjoyed one of the rare and beautify clear days, with pond conditions on the ocean. If I planned it better, we would have headed to Half Moon Bay. I may do that next weekend.

I would very much like to enter the Pac Cup next year. In reading the rules, I will need a "certified" PHRF certificate. That process involves weighing the boat, having it measured, and having the math done. I don't know the details, yet though. It is still a very long list of equipment I need to buy. Maybe I should start a gofundme page.

 

[wild382]

I looked at the polars on the US Sailing site. I'll probably get them, but not ready to pull the trigger on that price yet. I didn't realize they were calculated, not from actual tests. In any case I think it's an important thing to reference for anyone racing, or even cruising if you want to make best use of your time. It could be the difference of several days if you are crossing an ocean.

I had a GREAT sail today. Me and Marty, the helmsman I race with. Very casual, we went out the gate and down the coast just a bit before turning around and heading back. It was the kind of sailing I really love this boat for. About 12 kts of wind sailing about 5. I set the wheel brake, and touched nothing for 15 minutes at a time. Several times we would be chatting and the boat would slow and we were "oh yeah, no one is steering the boat." When we did need to adjust, sometimes it felt easier to trim the main to steer the boat back into the grove instead of the wheel. Just enjoyed one of the rare and beautify clear days, with pond conditions on the ocean. If I planned it better, we would have headed to Half Moon Bay. I may do that next weekend.

I would very much like to enter the Pac Cup next year. In reading the rules, I will need a "certified" PHRF certificate. That process involves weighing the boat, having it measured, and having the math done. I don't know the details, yet though. It is still a very long list of equipment I need to buy. Maybe I should start a gofundme page.

How much did US Sailing want for the Polars? I'm glad you are understanding that those numbers are mathematically derived at best. The Morgan hull was a "tank tested" hull. Ted Brewer being a Navy guy. So maybe that was factored in at the time. All I know is most of these boats are not regularly raced. US Sailing says they will consider raising the PHRF as I have discussed earlier if enough of them are "officially" raced on a regular basis. Hope to see your new video soon. If you ever want to come out this way "Lake Champlain" and join us for a race let me know. You are always welcome.

 

[Warren Holybee]

$275 for members, $325 for non. That is for the "performance package" which includes everything in excel format. They also had an abbreviated laminated card that was a bit cheaper.

 

[Warren Holybee]

Here is the video finally. I missed recording the start, which is ok because we blew it. We had to jibe about about 20 seconds before the start to avoid an early start, which resulted in a late start, with no momentum. Other than that I think we did ok. I found a web page that shows the SF bay currents ( http://l-36.com/sf_current_new2.php?menu=9 ) and next week I am going to try and stay with them.

 

[wild382]

Here is the video finally. I missed recording the start, which is ok because we blew it. We had to jibe about about 20 seconds before the start to avoid an early start, which resulted in a late start, with no momentum. Other than that I think we did ok. I found a web page that shows the SF bay currents ( http://l-36.com/sf_current_new2.php?menu=9 ) and next week I am going to try and stay with them.

These videos are great Warren. Maybe to the casual observer nothing seems out of the ordinary...
What was the true wind range?
Looks like a flood tide? I see from the map up to 4 knots. I remember that.
Tacking you need to think in terms of gears. At about 7 minutes you guys tack and the head sail is just trimmed in all the way it should be out a bit (first gear) then as you develop apparent wind speed from your increasing boat speed trim again (2nd gear) last when you are at your target polar boat speed on at the given conditions say 8 knots true 5 knots boat speed on a beat you should be trimmed in. Don't just yank it in "set it and forget it".
Also, as comfortable as the cockpit is the crew should move forward at every opportunity to "balance the boat on her lines"...you learn this in dingy racing. Your dragging your butt! When my wife moves forward to the bow we can gain as much as 1/4 knot! She only weighs 105-108 lbs! Just imagine what four or five people fo all sitting in the aft. Just check out a few small boat racing videos and you will see the one or two person crew moving all over the place to gain maximum speed. Just a few tips and easier said than done. You are lucky to have a regular crew...that's a really big deal...you all learn the boat...and know what to do.
That speed reading has to be paddle wheel. The SOG boat speed would be more like 5-6 knots on a beat in the conditions it looks like you had. Really actually helps us to watch your videos. Because our crew can learn what we are doing wrong and what we are doing right. How is the bottom of your boat? Is it "fair".
Heel at 15-20 degrees is optimal...the rail is in the water ...everyone to high side who isn't needed. Constant attention to main and head sail...use the traveler to let the main down and ease heeling. Great job putting the main back up for your downwind run! We neglected to do that in our last race...duh...causing us to be slower downwind than should have been. It's work but you look like you are having fun. Do you have a link to the race results? Like to see what you were racing against

 

[Warren Holybee]

True wind was 15kt ish. Ebb tide, so the tide was helping our upwind leg. The speed on the video is from the GPS in the camera. We talked about gears and practiced some tacks on Sunday. Fresh paint on the bottom and cleaned regularly.

Link to the race page is here: http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/11683
I can't link to the individual results but you can naviagte to them and to the registrants page which lists other boats and their ratings. We are in class D, non-spinnaker.

 

[wild382]

True wind was 15kt ish. Ebb tide, so the tide was helping our upwind leg. The speed on the video is from the GPS in the camera. We talked about gears and practiced some tacks on Sunday. Fresh paint on the bottom and cleaned regularly.

Link to the race page is here: http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/11683
I can't link to the individual results but you can naviagte to them and to the registrants page which lists other boats and their ratings. We are in class D, non-spinnaker.

Too bad it doesn't show the times, actual and corrected, make and model boat, distance sailed, etc. Looks like you are doing pretty darn good for just starting to race your boat. It would be good to hear the race chatter as to what you are doing while doing it. The boat looks great by the way. Unlike many other boats that are raced "in general" you don't appear to be hurting the boat racing it.

 

[Warren Holybee]

From here http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/11683 click on "current registrants" and it will show the boat make/model and phrf rating.

 

[wild382]

From here http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/11683 click on "current registrants" and it will show the boat make/model and phrf rating.

See a couple tartan 10's...they do pretty good around here as well as a couple of the other busts listed. Looks like a pretty good mix of boats except that J boat should be racing Spin! Ha ha...you should be able to improve your results over time against some of the hosts in this fleet...

 

[royaltern]

Warren, You asked for comments. My typing is poor so I have attached a word file. Hope it works. If not we can find another way to get it to you.

 

[royaltern]

Could not upload word file. either need instruction or email address, or something. I am computer challenged.

 

[royaltern]

Lets see if this works

 

[wild382]

here is Berts comments posted...only comment correction I believe is to move fair lead aft not forward for twist and depowerering sail...moving forward and sheeting headsail closes the leach and powers it up
Comments on Racing Video

1. When sailing to windward, helmsmen sails the boat by the jib telltales. Main sheet sheeted in an main adjusted continually by adjusting traveler, according to pressure on sails. You need to get an adjustable traveler system. Only adjust mainsheet slightly if you want more or less trim. Most helmsmen I knew sailed sitting to leeward ( I know, weight to leeward not good), concentrating on jib tail tales.

2. By the look of your mainsheet, and the position of boom, it looked like your main was too far out. Your tacking angle did not reflect this. However that may be due to a lee bow current. what is your tacking angle. Only way to know is by compass direction on one tack, then compass direction on another tack, right after you tacked. may need to check a couple of times due to wind shifts. Apparent wind and gps have to many variables.

3.Other boats did not appear reefed, and you did not appear over powered. Didn't reef on 2nd windward leg. Had wind dropped?

3. Set jib leads so all tell tales break at same time. Mark track. If you want some twist in jib, move lead forward so top breaks first.

4. Crew weight to windward, on rail. Might want to train lady as windward helms person, just focused on tell tales. Man in yellow jacket on rail.

5. Sailing down wind, put on boom vang, even if not out to rail. I think it can be on all the time.

6. Sailing downwind wing and wing is slow. In winds under 15 knots , boats with symmetrical spinnakers tack downwind. Sail 140 to 145 apparent. Should give you 160 true. If you sail wing and wing need whisker pole.

7. When trimming sails crew should stand be aft of winches, with shoulders over winch, looking forward at sail they are trimming. Better mechanical advantage.

8. Practice. Sailing is one of few sports that people participate in and don't practice. If time is an issue, and it is, practice going out to the starting line, and sailing home. Go out early.

 

[wild382]

Warren, You asked for comments. My typing is poor so I have attached a word file. Hope it works. If not we can find another way to get it to you.

Thanks Bert...

 

[royaltern]

John, Your comment is correct, and it was the way I was taught. Looked at jib twist on the internet, and got it wrong. Thanks for the correction.

 

[royaltern]

This site shows speed necessary for given angles of down wind tacking. http://www.oceansail.co.uk/Articles/VMGTable.pdf

 

[wild382]

John, Your comment is correct, and it was the way I was taught. Looked at jib twist on the internet, and got it wrong. Thanks for the correction.

Believe me ...we make plenty more mistakes...we just have to laugh at some...we were wondering if we came out to the race area loaded with fenders all around our Joan if the other boats would study away from us! )

 

[wild382]

Believe me ...we make plenty more mistakes...we just have to laugh at some...we were wondering if we came out to the race area loaded with fenders all around our Joan if the other boats would study away from us! )

Our boats can do 8 knots boat speed in 20 knots of true wind on a broad reach...that's max speed. We do 7.4 in 12 knots true broad reach. These are our "official" certified USSailing polar speeds. A Morgan 382 can fo 5 knots on a beat in 8 knots true and 6.2 in 20 knots true. How they ever got a PHRF of 138-150 with allowances doesn't work out mathematically... I guess one can hope for a 180+ rating if enough pool start racing again...US sailing will consider enforcing a change with our local PHRF.

 

[Warren Holybee]

First, thank you for comments. Every bit helps. Responses below:

here is Berts comments posted...only comment correction I believe is to move fair lead aft not forward for twist and depowerering sail...moving forward and sheeting headsail closes the leach and powers it up
Comments on Racing Video

1. When sailing to windward, helmsmen sails the boat by the jib telltales. Main sheet sheeted in an main adjusted continually by adjusting traveler, according to pressure on sails. You need to get an adjustable traveler system. Only adjust mainsheet slightly if you want more or less trim. Most helmsmen I knew sailed sitting to leeward ( I know, weight to leeward not good), concentrating on jib tail tales.

He and I talked about this. He is pretty experienced and feels the boat well. Personally I always sit to leeward, but I'm happy with his performance where he is at.

2. By the look of your mainsheet, and the position of boom, it looked like your main was too far out. Your tacking angle did not reflect this. However that may be due to a lee bow current. what is your tacking angle. Only way to know is by compass direction on one tack, then compass direction on another tack, right after you tacked. may need to check a couple of times due to wind shifts. Apparent wind and gps have to many variables.

The main was eased because we were overpowered the first leg. So I eased it so it just started to luff. We felt it was overpowered both by heal (over 20 degrees) and the amount of helm needed.

3.Other boats did not appear reefed, and you did not appear over powered. Didn't reef on 2nd windward leg. Had wind dropped?

Yes, it dropped substantially.

3. Set jib leads so all tell tales break at same time. Mark track. If you want some twist in jib, move lead forward so top breaks first.

We did this. (well, but we moved it aft for more twist.) On my 110% jib, the point where they all break at the same time is almost the back of the inside track. So not much room to go back more. My helmsman and I actually went out on a pleasure sail and played around alot with job trim. We need to do this more.

4. Crew weight to windward, on rail. Might want to train lady as windward helms person, just focused on tell tales. Man in yellow jacket on rail.

Yes, we did better with this during the first race. Then totally forgot during the second.

5. Sailing down wind, put on boom vang, even if not out to rail. I think it can be on all the time.

I know this, but need to actually do it.

6. Sailing downwind wing and wing is slow. In winds under 15 knots , boats with symmetrical spinnakers tack downwind. Sail 140 to 145 apparent. Should give you 160 true. If you sail wing and wing need whisker pole.

We tried the spinnaker pole during practice. We decided against it because we need more practice. We would have lost more time trying to get the pole attached than we would have gained.

We have discussed sailing a broad reach, and always decide against it at the last minute. The broad reach takes us into a counter-current (which helps us on the windward leg) One race we did one d/w leg wing-on-wing and the other d/w leg a broad reach. The times the two legs took were seconds apart.

7. When trimming sails crew should stand be aft of winches, with shoulders over winch, looking forward at sail they are trimming. Better mechanical advantage.

Are the winches in the same location on all 382's? By far the best place in terms of mechanical advantage on mine is fore of the winch, with your back to the sails. Not at all convenient. Aft of the winches you are behind the wheel. The are positioned well for single handing.

8. Practice. Sailing is one of few sports that people participate in and don't practice. If time is an issue, and it is, practice going out to the starting line, and sailing home. Go out early.

We always go out early, and had a solid "pleasure sail" day where we practiced keeping speed up during a tack and experimented with different ways to depower and trim the jib. One thing that surprised me was that if we were really over powered, (> 40 degrees heal) reefing the jib resulted in a drop of speed and reduced pointing. It seemed better to depower other ways or remain overpowered than to reef the jib. (remember my jib is only 110%)

And yes, practice is everything.

 

[Warren Holybee]

Latest Race. The most exciting part starts about 29 minutes in. We rounded the windward mark just behind another boat and were overtaking it on the downwind leg. They sailed wing on wing and we sailed a bit higher. We were definitely faster and had overtaken them but after gybing fell behind them again. We reached the downwind mark only feet behind them. After rounding the mark to the last upwind leg they beat us to the finish by about a minute.

We finished 8th out of 11 boats, which isn't a well as before, but 4:16 behind the first boat, which is a minute better. I suspect several teams are improving, so we performed better but so did they.

 

[wild382]

Latest Race. The most exciting part starts about 29 minutes in. We rounded the windward mark just behind another boat and were overtaking it on the downwind leg. They sailed wing on wing and we sailed a bit higher. We were definitely faster and had overtaken them but after gybing fell behind them again. We reached the downwind mark only feet behind them. After rounding the mark to the last upwind leg they beat us to the finish by about a minute.

We finished 8th out of 11 boats, which isn't a well as before, but 4:16 behind the first boat, which is a minute better. I suspect several teams are improving, so we performed better but so did they.

4:16 behind first boat in those conditions ...is pretty good ...you are within striking distance to take the lead. How many miles are these races typically.
Again,
I don't see you using the traveler...
very important to trim and ease main via the traveler and main sheet. (Maybe I just can't see it.)
also doesn't look like you can extend out the full length of the traveler blocks past the edges of the bench.?
Was the wind shifting because the bourse heading seems to be changing as much as 40 degrees!
Just a few observations...that might help you.

 

[Warren Holybee]

The races are short, and getting shorter as days are shorter. This one was 4nm. One thing that really hit home on this race, is that the course is so short there isn't really time to think things through.

Not using the traveler as much as we should. I don't have the blocks and tackle to move it. So I have to ease the main sheet all the way, and move the car by hand. One of my crew nearly lost a finger with this maneuver just prior to the race. Maybe someone here has my missing parts?

I'm not sure what you mean by "also doesn't look like you can extend out the full length of the traveler blocks past the edges of the bench?"

The wind was 25kts and shifty. Also, the start/finish line was midway between the windward and leeward marks. So the lay line was different on the different legs.

 

[wild382]

The races are short, and getting shorter as days are shorter. This one was 4nm. One thing that really hit home on this race, is that the course is so short there isn't really time to think things through.

Not using the traveler as much as we should. I don't have the blocks and tackle to move it. So I have to ease the main sheet all the way, and move the car by hand. One of my crew nearly lost a finger with this maneuver just prior to the race. Maybe someone here has my missing parts?

I'm not sure what you mean by "also doesn't look like you can extend out the full length of the traveler blocks past the edges of the bench?"

The wind was 25kts and shifty. Also, the start/finish line was midway between the windward and leeward marks. So the lay line was different on the different legs.

Those are really short courses ...typical courses are 13-16 miles. Shortened if light wind or bad weather to 5-6 miles sometimes. You are right you don't get a chance to "get your legs" on courses that short. But then it can work in your favor if you "smoke" the starts.
No blocks and tackle for traveler. I might be getting a new set up for a single adjustment to the traveler on our boat. If I fo I'll let you know. NO Traveler...did not realize that. I'll take a picture of ours so you can see. So that answers the "extended traveler adjustment"
I was just watching the course heading on the video. Seemed to be swinging a bit than normal. But at 25 knots ...great job!
Maybe you and your crew could make a trip to Vermont and join us on a race next year. Would be fun. Unfortunately our "big race" of a 105 miles has expected weather of 35-40 knots!

 

[Warren Holybee]

I don't have the video yet, but this weeks race rather sucked. Approaching the windward mark on the second (final) lap we got caught in a traffic jam with several other boats. We were on port tack, approaching a boat on Starboard. It looked like we would pass in front of them. Then as we got very close that boat beared away from us to possibly to avoid another boat, not really leaving us with time to duck behind them. It was a very near collision as both of us tacked. By the book our fault because we were on port, so we took a penalty and did a 360 turn, leaving us in 11th place. I'm not sure how required that was, but I figure better to do it and not get a DSQ.

Everything happened so fast I'm not really sure of the sequence of events. I did review that part of he video, it doesn't show anything useful. You see a boat pass in front of us (the boat I think the other boat turned away from us to avoid), then we panic and tack, and you see the other boat nearly hit us on the starboard side as we both were tacking.

The other side to that is that on our final lap we were at the mark with the lead 3 boats. Had we not had that incident I think we would have placed in the top 3. So a positive improvement there. The forestay was loose and I re-tensioned it. The boat points much better now, not where I would like it, but it kept us close to the other boats.

 

[wild382]

Well bad races happen to all of us...don't feel bad. I know it's frustrating. We were doing good this year in second place for the Championship Series but had two terrible races. Might be time for a crew change. It's tough to do but everyone needs to be learning, getting better. We blew too many tacks in wind we should have done very well in...first time we finished last! Oooh... that's an awful feeling when you worked so hard to hold on to second. We were third in the Lake Champlain Campionship Series do we were really hoping for second.
On the plus side we have been really "smoking" the starts ... in the last race one second to the gun! Doesn't get much closer than that. It always feels like a "win" when you get to the line tight when the gun goes off. We were well in front if all competitors...felt really good. Downside we had to return to help with the RC boat till three in the morning. 30 plus knot winds and limited crew made the decision.
Good news is we are holding on to our first Second Place overall in the Billado Series on our lake. It's a really old series race and we will be very honored to hold on to even third.

Out for a sail with "the girls!"...not racing

 

[john english]

Warren,
Is your boat ex "Stargazer"? if so did you ever contact the previous owner? Were your courses the now typical windard/leeward? What's next in your race schedule? Midwinters? 3-Bridge Fiasco? Double handed Farallones?
If all goes well, we will have Coast Starlight back in Emeryville by Halloween. We should have a chat or an Angel Island night out!

 

[Warren Holybee]

No, "Stargazer" is owned by Chris Langton, also on this board, and docked in the same marina as me. I purchased Eliana in Marina del Ray last year. I got to meet with the original owner then. The Summer Series is over. They were the basic windward/leeward dropped mark courses. I'm looking at midwinters next, which I think are only 2 races in November and December. I need to look at what other races are in the area. I wanted to do the SF to Santa Cruz race at the beginning of September, but don't yet have all the equipment they require. Working on that bit by bit. Probably the same requirements for the Farallones race. But if you are interested, I want to sail to the Farallones on Saturday if I can find crew. So far just me, and not sure I should single hand that. Otherwise, an Angel Island night would be great. I've done that a couple times.

 

[john english]

We did the Windjammers to Santa Cruz many times in the '90's. It was the only time we plowed a hole deep enough to let green water over the rail and literally cracked the hull keel joint. Later on I did the single handed Farallones...... just once. All on a 150 jib out and back. Very sobering and not my cup-o-tea.
The Bay Area 38's need to get together. Let's mull that one over and maybe think of attendees and dates.

 

[bluesbyrd]

Is your boat ex "Stargazer"? if so did you ever contact the previous owner?

Hi John!

Chris Langton here ....

I did contact the previous owner and we were negotiating a get-together, but I kind of dropped the ball when my Mom's condition turned worse and I had to return to Boston to care for her.

As I recall, your boat and Stargazer are sister ships, no? having been purchased at the same boat show in Alameda on the same day in 1978....

Good idea to get the Bay Area 38s together, but I've been here on the east coast for most of this year, a situation that will likely continue through the end of the year and beyond.

I have a brother who can relieve me for a week or two every now and then, so I make brief forays back to Sausalito and Stargazer when I can.

I was back briefly in early September to have a survey done on Stargazer, among other things.

Next foray looks like it will be in early November.

I'll let you and Warren know when the dates firm up.

Cheers!

Chris