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Perkins 4108 rebuild progress

pmf44

Member
I had posted in 2020 about options for my good old Perkins which had been slowly getting worn out....and we are now almost done with the rebuild. We pulled her out in December and have since taken everything apart and broken it down. Fortunately there were no major surprises or stumbling blocks. Chris Oliver of Portside Marine in Annapolis and I have replaced the pistons, rings and re-connected the rods to the crankshaft; the reworked valve assembly and injectors are awaiting reinstallation. We will be replacing the old notorious, rear seal "rope" with a fancy and exorbitantly overpriced gasket (supposedly new and upgraded and looks like nothing more than shaft stuffing), changing the v-belt to a serpentine belt and will be replacing the unwieldy "P.I.T.A" secondary double-clamp style fuel filter with a new spin-on cartridge which required replacing the oil cooler to make room for the conversion kit. We hope to complete the rebuild and shop test her in the next two weeks and reinstall into Non Sea Quitter by mid-March. We'll be running the new ignition and fuel-cutoff stop switch from the bridge deck closer to the helm. The only rather irritating thing about the engine remains the nearly impossible to-get-to 3/8 bleedscrew on the governor/injector pump assembly. (I hope I described that properly) ....I will have some photos to share in March if anyone is interested....Portside happens to have another 4.108 in the shop! Want to buy it? Cannibalize it???
 

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Chris is a great guy and I'm sure you learned a lot from him. Is he still only wearing shorts even in the winter?
 
please send along the photos of your work. Galileo is in rock hall at Haven Harbour. This year they are doing a variety of patchwork tasks to keep the Perkins 4108 alive and well.
The thing that drives me crazy is the amount of smoke at startup. I wait for the wind to blow in the right direction so I don’t smoke out the neighboring boats on our dock.
Any suggestions for eliminating or mitigating this?
Steve
 
Chris is a great guy and I'm sure you learned a lot from him. Is he still only wearing shorts even in the winter?
ND HAZEL Thanks You may be referring to Chris Oliver Sr who I worked with since 1984. Chris Sr died a year ago and there was a service for him at Eastport Yacht Club. I am working with Chris Jr who owns Portside marine. Going over today to finish up. I hope. What is your first name? I will tell him that you wrote. thanks
 
please send along the photos of your work. Galileo is in rock hall at Haven Harbour. This year they are doing a variety of patchwork tasks to keep the Perkins 4108 alive and well.
The thing that drives me crazy is the amount of smoke at startup. I wait for the wind to blow in the right direction so I don’t smoke out the neighboring boats on our dock.
Any suggestions for eliminating or mitigating this?
Steve
Stephen Yes! Only start her up at anchor and warn everyone downwind!!

I don't dare call myself a mechanic but I have a few notions. Of course your engine is likely to be quite old and so smoke at startup may be "normal" to a certain extent, but could be indicative of many internal issues, but is possibly and likely the product of fuel not being burned properly--or an issue with the exhaust manifold/system??? . Although I have learned a bit--and only a bit, what I do know is that this problem will not correct itself magically, will only get worse with use and may eventually cause undue wear or internal problems that could become costly and downright complicated over time. It does not mean she is in intensive care or on life support of course....but you get my drift. There may be a few ways to relatively easily begin to analyze and correct--it may mean a valve job, an injector job, a new gasket??? But eventually....more serious work. Think Occam's Razor! Bring her down to Annapolis, and pay a visit to Portside Marine, and soon you'll be able to start up, see and listen to a newly rebuilt 1980 4.108 in a 1980 boat...all it takes...time...money...time...money...time..money--Or--get your local mechanic to come aboard.
 
I like your first suggestion,which is, in reality, what I do. Wait for the wind to blow the smoke away from the other boats, let her run til it clears. The mechanics at haven Harbour have suggested an additive to the fuel which can lessen the smoking. Another suggestion was using a block heater to keep the engine ‘warm ‘ thus increasing more efficient fuel burn.
thanks for your input. All else fails, I’ll cross the bay and visit annapolis. Just stay upwind. Occam’s razor meets Hobson’s choice!
 
ND HAZEL Thanks You may be referring to Chris Oliver Sr who I worked with since 1984. Chris Sr died a year ago and there was a service for him at Eastport Yacht Club. I am working with Chris Jr who owns Portside marine. Going over today to finish up. I hope. What is your first name? I will tell him that you wrote. thanks
Yes, It has been a while and yes, I was referring to Chris Sr. I'm sorry to hear that Sr is no longer with us. He was a character and I learned so much from him. Not sure if I ever worked with Chris Jr., but Sr did work on our former boat.

Our home port is Galesville, but currently on the Tennessee River. Name here is Mark Hazelden aboard S/V Simple Pleasures 382 #005
 
please send along the photos of your work. Galileo is in rock hall at Haven Harbour. This year they are doing a variety of patchwork tasks to keep the Perkins 4108 alive and well.
The thing that drives me crazy is the amount of smoke at startup. I wait for the wind to blow in the right direction so I don’t smoke out the neighboring boats on our dock.
Any suggestions for eliminating or mitigating this?
Steve

Steven, my boat did that too. I fixed it by the following:
Pull your injectors out and have them rebuilt.
Adjust your valves to spec.
Have an additional fuel filter prior to engine. Racor 500 is ideal w/10 micron filter.
Have your fuel tank cleaned out / fuel polishing. Old boats have crap in their tanks. It destroys your injectors.
Use Biobor /Standyne biocide & a fuel conditioner to add lubricity to today's low sulfur fuel.
 
Dave, thanks for your input. Each makes sense in terms of the age of the boat and the perkins. We don’t run these engines long enough to help them either. Just to get us from the slip to the open water, and then shut them down. Never use a full tank of fuel, so who knows how old the ‘stuff’ in the tank is.
thank you
steve

 
Steve, search for a picture from moderator Mark Pearson to see what he found in his tank. Many diesel boats get in rough seas, bounce around enough to dislodge that tar & dead microbes and clog the filter. Just what you need in an inlet or the "old lee shore". A dead engine!
So clean fuel can be a safety issue as well.
 
Yes, It has been a while and yes, I was referring to Chris Sr. I'm sorry to hear that Sr is no longer with us. He was a character and I learned so much from him. Not sure if I ever worked with Chris Jr., but Sr did work on our former boat.

Our home port is Galesville, but currently on the Tennessee River. Name here is Mark Hazelden aboard S/V Simple Pleasures 382 #005
Feel free to contact when you return to Galesville, which is where I bought and ssailed my boat for four years.
 
The Perkins in my boat smoked and put a sheen out even after 15 min. or so. Always a hint of smoke after fully loaded. Smoke increased up in the 3600 RPM area. After studying writings online, here, and talking to a fuel pump mechanic, Roy's Diesel, in Jacksonville, it was apparent that advancing the pump timing slightly might improve the burn phase of the cylinder cycle. I advanced the timing about 2.5 degrees. I'm thinking that the gear train tolerances are approaching higher values, with a retarding effect on timing at the fuel pump shaft. At first startup there was only about a 5 sec. puff and virtually no smoke through the loaded RPM range. No sheen either! thought I had an oil burning issue, but it was unburned, atomized fuel. Noticed a change to lower vibration too.
 
Yes, It has been a while and yes, I was referring to Chris Sr. I'm sorry to hear that Sr is no longer with us. He was a character and I learned so much from him. Not sure if I ever worked with Chris Jr., but Sr did work on our former boat.

Our home port is Galesville, but currently on the Tennessee River. Name here is Mark Hazelden aboard S/V Simple Pleasures 382 #005
Mark--coming back to the Galesville area???
 
Just in case anybody was wondering....I've put about 100 hours on my 1980 4.108 since the winter rebuild with Chris Oliver of Portside Marine. In addition to replacing much of the inner workings (pistons, rings, rods etc. but not the crankshaft--as it and the cylinders looked good), injector rebuild, valve assembly rebuild etc., this also entailed:
1. Converting the v belt to a serpentine belt. That also called for a modification to the alternator bracket and pulleys of course.
2. Replacing the dual oil cooler with a single cooler so we could convert the older and somewhat unwieldy secondary filter to a newer spin on cartridge filter.
3. Adding an electronic stop solenoid.
All was working well--more or less except after 100 hours, it eventually became apparent that the fuel pump assembly needed a complete rebuild. That went to Hoffman Injection Service in Newark, DE--Jeff Hoffman only does injector pumps and I am so glad I went to him at Chris's recommendation. Today Chris and I reinstalled the rebuilt assembly and the engine has run better than ever since I bought her in 2015.

SO--after all this.....I have a restored 1980 boat with a restored 1980 engine and hope to enjoy many ("trouble decreased...") seasons of sailing and enjoying and maybe living aboard her. I will be happy to correspond with anyone who is considering rebuilding or replacing the good old 4.108 as there are many reasons to choose one route or another. However, knowing what a new Yanmar or Beta will cost, a rebuild will be the obvious choice from a purely financial perspective.
 
Paul, congrats on completing the rebuild successfully! Glad to hear it worked out for you.

We put our new Beta to the test this summer, including most recently about 70 hours straight of mostly motoring and motor-sailing from Nantucket back to the Chesapeake. Would have preferred to sail more of it, but work schedules intervened. Happy with the engine, but repowering definitely has its unexpected challenges. In retrospect, there is definitely something to be said for going with a time tested and proven set up, even outside of the lower cost.

Most recent engine-related adventure: just prior to leaving Nantucket, the prop shaft to transmission coupling failed. Thankfully it failed in Nantucket harbor and we were able to drift onto an open mooring (which the good folks at Nantucket Moorings let us stay on for the night while we worked on repairs). Can't speak highly enough of local mechanic Tim Lewis (508 364 6334 if you ever find yourself in similar straits). He had a packed schedule that day but still found time to get me the tools and parts needed right away, and consulted with me through the entire fix.

Turns out the clamping bolts on the coupler either had not been tightened down properly following our last prop change, or they had somehow worked loose. This resulted in the shaft and coupler twisting against the key every time the engine was put in gear. Eventually, the key sheared clean in half. Getting the shaft backed out, coupler removed, old key pieces removed and replaced, then getting it all cleaned up and put back together with the boat in the water was not easy. When complete, Tim came by and cranked down on the bolts with an impact driver. It held together just fine on the trip home, but I need to have a word or two with the installer...
 
Paul, congrats on completing the rebuild successfully! Glad to hear it worked out for you.

We put our new Beta to the test this summer, including most recently about 70 hours straight of mostly motoring and motor-sailing from Nantucket back to the Chesapeake. Would have preferred to sail more of it, but work schedules intervened. Happy with the engine, but repowering definitely has its unexpected challenges. In retrospect, there is definitely something to be said for going with a time tested and proven set up, even outside of the lower cost.

Most recent engine-related adventure: just prior to leaving Nantucket, the prop shaft to transmission coupling failed. Thankfully it failed in Nantucket harbor and we were able to drift onto an open mooring (which the good folks at Nantucket Moorings let us stay on for the night while we worked on repairs). Can't speak highly enough of local mechanic Tim Lewis (508 364 6334 if you ever find yourself in similar straits). He had a packed schedule that day but still found time to get me the tools and parts needed right away, and consulted with me through the entire fix.

Turns out the clamping bolts on the coupler either had not been tightened down properly following our last prop change, or they had somehow worked loose. This resulted in the shaft and coupler twisting against the key every time the engine was put in gear. Eventually, the key sheared clean in half. Getting the shaft backed out, coupler removed, old key pieces removed and replaced, then getting it all cleaned up and put back together with the boat in the water was not easy. When complete, Tim came by and cranked down on the bolts with an impact driver. It held together just fine on the trip home, but I need to have a word or two with the installer...
Keefer I am glad to hear of your sailing adventures--and they always come with "fix it" stories and at least yours has ended well. Do call next time you are in Deale/Annapolis. regards pmf
 
Just in case anybody was wondering....I've put about 100 hours on my 1980 4.108 since the winter rebuild with Chris Oliver of Portside Marine. In addition to replacing much of the inner workings (pistons, rings, rods etc. but not the crankshaft--as it and the cylinders looked good), injector rebuild, valve assembly rebuild etc., this also entailed:
1. Converting the v belt to a serpentine belt. That also called for a modification to the alternator bracket and pulleys of course.
2. Replacing the dual oil cooler with a single cooler so we could convert the older and somewhat unwieldy secondary filter to a newer spin on cartridge filter.
3. Adding an electronic stop solenoid.
All was working well--more or less except after 100 hours, it eventually became apparent that the fuel pump assembly needed a complete rebuild. That went to Hoffman Injection Service in Newark, DE--Jeff Hoffman only does injector pumps and I am so glad I went to him at Chris's recommendation. Today Chris and I reinstalled the rebuilt assembly and the engine has run better than ever since I bought her in 2015.

SO--after all this.....I have a restored 1980 boat with a restored 1980 engine and hope to enjoy many ("trouble decreased...") seasons of sailing and enjoying and maybe living aboard her. I will be happy to correspond with anyone who is considering rebuilding or replacing the good old 4.108 as there are many reasons to choose one route or another. However, knowing what a new Yanmar or Beta will cost, a rebuild will be the obvious choice from a purely financial perspective.
Appreciate your insights as I'm just starting down the path of a rebuild for my 1978 4.108. She fires right up, transmission strong, new waterpump, need to trace a fuel leak, but oil leak now pooling so time to do something. Guess my question is how much proactive work did you take on (what was working but you decided to update,,,) Welcome any and all comments you'd like to offer and thanks in advance
 
If the beast is running well, just replace the front and rear seals and maybe the oil pan and head gaskets. Someone sells new, better seals. Try Trans Atlantic Diesel. I rebuilt my raw water pump and bought a new fresh water pump when the seals on the old went bad. Easier than rebuilding. I am replacing the engine only because, well, not sure any more. Just didn't want to deal with constant repair. Check out this site:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1407531859540143 This is a facebook group for 4-107 and 4-108 owners. If the link does not work, I am sure you can find it. I did.
 
Yes, It has been a while and yes, I was referring to Chris Sr. I'm sorry to hear that Sr is no longer with us. He was a character and I learned so much from him. Not sure if I ever worked with Chris Jr., but Sr did work on our former boat.

Our home port is Galesville, but currently on the Tennessee River. Name here is Mark Hazelden aboard S/V Simple Pleasures 382 #005

If the beast is running well, just replace the front and rear seals and maybe the oil pan and head gaskets. Someone sells new, better seals. Try Trans Atlantic Diesel. I rebuilt my raw water pump and bought a new fresh water pump when the seals on the old went bad. Easier than rebuilding. I am replacing the engine only because, well, not sure any more. Just didn't want to deal with constant repair. Check out this site:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1407531859540143 This is a facebook group for 4-107 and 4-108 owners. If the link does not work, I am sure you can find it. I did.
Terry,
Thanks for taking time to respond and appreciate the sound advice. S/V Kekoa is a keeper as I've owned her twice over the years, and looking forward to not changing diapers any more.
Fair winds and followings seas!!
Nick
 
I had posted in 2020 about options for my good old Perkins which had been slowly getting worn out....and we are now almost done with the rebuild. We pulled her out in December and have since taken everything apart and broken it down. Fortunately there were no major surprises or stumbling blocks. Chris Oliver of Portside Marine in Annapolis and I have replaced the pistons, rings and re-connected the rods to the crankshaft; the reworked valve assembly and injectors are awaiting reinstallation. We will be replacing the old notorious, rear seal "rope" with a fancy and exorbitantly overpriced gasket (supposedly new and upgraded and looks like nothing more than shaft stuffing), changing the v-belt to a serpentine belt and will be replacing the unwieldy "P.I.T.A" secondary double-clamp style fuel filter with a new spin-on cartridge which required replacing the oil cooler to make room for the conversion kit. We hope to complete the rebuild and shop test her in the next two weeks and reinstall into Non Sea Quitter by mid-March. We'll be running the new ignition and fuel-cutoff stop switch from the bridge deck closer to the helm. The only rather irritating thing about the engine remains the nearly impossible to-get-to 3/8 bleedscrew on the governor/injector pump assembly. (I hope I described that properly) ....I will have some photos to share in March if anyone is interested....Portside happens to have another 4.108 in the shop! Want to buy it? Cannibalize it???
I have my 4-108 out for replacement of the rear crankshaft seal. I'm curious if your new seal solved the leaking or if it still leaks and if so how much.
 
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