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New to the discussion board, buying new sails for Morgan382

John,
I think that Timothy's experience with a working jib is because he has a 384 with a taller mast than the 382. In my experience the 382 likes more headsail area then a working jib provides. Depending on the average wind in the area that you sail my advice is consider a genoa of 135 to 150% that can be reefed under stronger winds.
When I had Southerly's genoa made I asked the sailmaker to raise the clew 2 feet more then normal. I left the tack the same. This gave me a better view under the genoa while heeled over. And the sail does not scoop water. As I reef the headsail the forward area rises as does the clew. I'm sure some of the guys have had the tack set higher on a new sail as well. But this cut suits me and I would build my next genoa the same way.
Ask around in your local area what the more experienced sailors with similar vintage and style boats advise. Southerly sails Western Long Island Sound to Maine.
I hope that helps you.
Larry
 
More Sail Ideas are welcomed!
I have the 382. I currently sail with the 135-140 in New England. The wind can be 6 knots and jump to 20-30 here so we reefed to the second reef and found she sails well that way. The genoa rolled in to about the 100 position. More than I would like to. I think 20% is the max without losing too much shape but she sails great this way in strong winds.

We were coming back one day in 26-30+ knot winds and reefed the main to the second reef with the Genoa furled well forward of the Mast. It let us fly along comfortably. Loads of fun!

We had 2 guests who had never sailed let alone even ever been on a boat. They quite enjoyed it and thought if this is sailing "we want in!"
Not the kind of enviroment to take someone sailing but it started out with 6-10 knots and jumped to 20 plus real fast. Typical here. Many days more typically are under 10 knots.

We plan on a trip to the Keys so we will be ICW and coastal cruising. The rest of the time will be spent sailing the Maine Coast and the Lake.
More Sail Ideas on size and construction are welcomed! Laminates? Tri-Cuts, Bi-Cuts???
So Sail size and
 
Larry,

Good point. My rig is taller, 56' above the water I think. In 10-15 knots of wind on a reach we are pretty close to hull speed.

The new working jib on the Morgan has a padded luff. It helps maintain sail shape if you have to roll up some sail. It's not perfect but it helps.
 
John and all,
I have an early 383 "tall rig" with a old style 382 "short rudder. Lake Ontario is where I sail. I use both a 135 & 110. The boat is easily overpowered with the full main and 135. When Janice and I take our 2 week cruise we have an 8-10 hour crossing. I always have the 110 on (Ontario can get mean). We left the 110 on all fall, and it makes sailing much easier. Tacking is a pleasure compared to the 135. The sheet pressure difference is substantial between the two.

I have a Quantam 135, it does not (roll) reef well in my opinion. I think one needs both size sails. But if I could have just one it would be a 110! I don't give up much light wind speed with the smaller sail. Hurry = Diesel

Long term, my plan is add a solent stay and hank on a 110 & storm jib (as conditions dictate) and leave the 135 on the roller. We'll see if that ever gets implemented!

Practical Sailor just had an article on what sail material to use. The conclusion was Dacron all day long unless you are racing. On my old Northstar 38 I had a UK tapedrive cruising laminate 135. It was a complex sail to build and it was starting to show it's age after 6 short seasons up north here. You can imagine the ROI, full time cruising in southern sun. My 2 cents.
 
My North Sail rep said the same thing, the 110 or even a 90 is the best all around sail for the Morgan. If you always sailing in light air, then a good, reefable 135 is good. There are many variables with our boats, keel depth, carried weight, age of sails, crew ability, rig and sail setup, and some I have forgotten after a glass of Cab.
Jim
 
Hey Jim, Thanks for your help in the past and being a mentor. I always thought of you as more of a Merlot Man. Sorry for the miconception. Kanes
 
As long it is Red or White, cold or room temp, even a beer occasionally! I learned this cruising with only ice when we could get it!
 
Okay...now back to sail choices!
I will look at getting a 100-110 as well.
Check out the picture you will see I have outer tracks and inside tracks.

17356.png

sailing


17357.png


The old genoa has a few tears that could be repaired but I think it has had it so I want to enjoy some new sails. I have a new main that the previous owner added a "roach" to it for lighter winds. Works great in light wind but I have been told by some sail makers that the roach addition essential gives you the equivalent to an unreefed sail at the first reef. We do certainly sail better with the first or second reef in 15-20 knots. Less heal. When we reef to the second reef and furl in the genoa to around 100% we sail great even in 20+ Knots. You can see the two reef points in the top picture.
I have to believe the newer sails are going to improve sailing even more.
I see your point about pointing higher with the inside tracks and a 100% Jib.
What a pretty boat the Morgan is! Classic lines.
 
And yes, I know the inside telltales are luffing a bit in this shot. Guess I could Photoshop them to look right<img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0"> Thanks for your advice and expertise guys!
 
I bought my 382 with a used light weight 150% and a like new heavier weight 110%. I used the 150 once and have used the 110 exclusively for the past 4 years. It works well on Galveston Bay. I'm thinking about a 135% with the foam luff. I had this setup on a previous smaller boat and it was perfect. I think it comes down to how athletic you want to be with sail changes.
 
Hi John:
For cruising, I would go with Dacron - probably more durable, easier to repair in the field, less susceptible to fatigue, UV damage, and mildew.. The weight and finish of the Dacron are a consideration.

For racing, no question ' I use laminated mylar sails with high-modulus fiber reinforcing. They are lightweight, strong, hold their shape and have minimal stretch. Fortunately these are for our 20' Santana 20 racing sloop so the cost per sail is more manageable. Typically its small main is still Dacron and with a highly adjustable rig it can be tugged and stretched to meet conditions. But the genoas which provide most of the drive on this boat are laminate. We baby them, carefully drying and rolling them after each race. I get multiple seasons out of a sail but class hotshots with deeper pockets buy sails every year. That's just not practical or desirable on a cruising boat.

As for the cut, I leave that to the sail makers who will select a shape best suited to the materials' properties and sail loading.

Practical sailor reviewed sail materials and design in their Sept 2010 issue. Conclusion: 'For cruising durability, you can skip the hype and stick with premium Dacron.'

-Alan
 
I think this pic shows the full sail cut better. This is a bi-cut radial right? Dacron from Thurston sails (now Quantum sails. Note the roach on the main.
Looks like this is a "foam luff". I have been told some new Genoas to replace this one use a plastic piece instead. Anyone know anything about this?

17368.jpg


Also How do I get our pics into the photo Gallery of my choosing?
 
Yes I think we will go with the Dacron
In our area Doyle makes a sail called Quicksilver Durasail radial. Almost $4500 with discount does that sound right?
 
All,

Just a thought on field repair of a sail from an old memory. I have seen serious cruisers with "Sailrite" sewing machines on their boats. I have seen them sewing up a sail on a picnic table with a long power cord back to the dock. I think that a situation like that demands a more forgiving material like dacron.

Of course you have to know sail repair, and I do not!

Tim S/V Expatriate
 
John,
As Alan and I mentioned there is an extremely valuable article in the Sept. 2010 Practical Sailor on buying & manufacturing sails. I strongly suggest you go on line and purchase it.

It will help you focus in on what you need, the process, and the optional "extras" that will add real value and life to your sail.

Don't pull the trigger till you read it!
 
I read that article Dave when it came out and decide at that time I would still go with premium Dacron.
It's how the sail is made and cut I am interested in.
If you look at my pictures can you identify for sure what that sail cut would be called on the headsail?

As always I really appreciate the knowledge and experience from the board.

I know a thing or two about sails but always like to get others opinions and knowledge!
 
Hi John:

Saw this guide on several sailmaker websites regarding panel layout - see http://www.miamisailing.net/Headsails.html
I think tri-radial layout gives better shape and load control - when you are talking about a sail set full. I don't have much experience with roller furling - both our boats use hank-on sails at the moment. I have some concern that rolling a tri-radial sail on a furler will cause distortion and sailing with it partially furled (reefed) could cause weird loading that it wasn't designed for. Padded luffs are a compromise - how durable are they? Does the padding get bunched up or distort flow over the leading edge? I am out of my element here. Best to talk with sailmakers.
-Alan
 
Thanks
So we have a bi-radial cut dacron sail now. I thing that makes the most sense for what we do and want to do.
A trip from New England to Key Largo and back once. then off to maine to sail Penobscot coast to Nova Scotia then back to Lake Champlain for long term.
Any experience or knowledge of Doyle. I am most familiar with North, Hood.
 
Have some bids! Mostly in the 3-4 thousand range for 130-140% Dacron Cross cut. Seems high. What do you all think?
They are from
Doyle
Quantum (they made the original headsail in 1994!)
and another local Sail loft
 
I would suggest that you find a sailmaker in the location that will be long term for you. You are going to own that sail for a good length of time. And it will need some work after it's a few years old.
 
Good thought Larry
The sailmaker Quantum/Thurston who made the original sail is quite familiar with Wild Oats, our boat, they have all the old measurements and records. They also have made many sails for Morgan 382's so that helps too.

We have a roached main any knowledge of the issues with a roached main? Too much power? Balancing headsail and main?
I have a call into ted Brewer.
 
John,
I can't understand why you would have to much power in your main. It's not a very large sail. All mainsails have a roach unless they rollerfurl into the mast.
I'm going to make a guess: And that is that the main is old and the pocket has moved considerably aft of where it is sopposed to be. That would cause the center of effort in the sail to be out of balance with the center of lateral resistance in the keel, resulting in heeling and a lot of weather helm. Or maybe you have not tightened the foot of the main enough, or hoisted it high enough. Either would cause a deep pocket when you really want a flat pocket when on the wind in 15knts. or so. My other guess is that you might have a light air shelf built into the main and you are not reefing it when the wind comes up. If you have a cringle about 6 to 8 inches above the tack then you have a shelf in the main. As I said, I'm only making a few guesses as to why you feel to much power. I have a shelf built into my mainsail and if I don't reef it out going to windward when the wind is 12knts. plus I have unwanted weather helm. Not being on the boat with the sail up I could only say "maybe".
Larry
 
<a href="http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php" target="_top">http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php</a>
 
I drew an arrow where the additional roach area was added. (approx) It extends well beyond the topping lift. It even hits the backstay at times.
It is a brand Brand NEW Main Sail not old or Baggy.

Ted Brewer agrees that an "over roached mainsail" (my terms not his), can be an issue in stronger winds. They work great in light air but one has to reef to the first reef to make it roughly equivalent to the original standard sail that was intended when the boat was tank tested for weather helm etc. Jim was correct!
The boat balances beautifully when reefed to the second reef in 14-16 knot air or more.
We have just concluded we either need another new main so we don't have to reef or just enjoy the extra power in light air that this NEW main has. I wish it had been cut to a standard Main but tat is what the previous owner wanted...an advantage in light air.

Now, back to a head sail choice,
I consulted with Ted Brewer and he states that up to a 140% (same thing the manual says) should be fine in anything up to 16 knots or so. Then furl in after that.
I have a new Hood 90% so if I need it I have it. As you can probably see by the photo our Genoa, a 140, needs to be replaced. That should help with the weather helm. No doubt this Genny has seen better days.
Thanks for the link Jim to FX sails. Do you have any experience with them? The sail pictured was abi-radial, not recommended these days. Either a cross-cut or tri-radial, square weave dacron 8.6 ounce maybe 7.7 ounce.


17371.jpg
 
A "roached" main might mean that the leech has been extended for more sail area (ie. "more power").

An example would be a Hobie catamaran sail where the leech is more vertical than the usual monohull sail (where it forms a straight line from clew to head). An extreme version on hi-perf. dinghies is call a "fathead" (I think) where the top of the sail is parallel to the boom. They look like an airplane wing

All this power is welcomed in a planing hull that transforms HP in to speed as opposed to heel. Movable ballast (guys in traps), helps too.

Most of these boats have no backstay.

And that is the overiding negative associated with a lot of roach. Wear on the sails leech from the back stay. Mast fittings can move the attachent point aft opening up the "triangle" for more sail area. A Melges 20 has a device at the top of the mast that holds the back stay further away, so the "roached" main can clear when jibing. Upwind with the backstay tight....not so much. Might be why racers replace ther sails so frequently.

On most cruising boats like a 382, the objective is long sail life. So sails on wire is not a good thing. I'd go for full battens and keep the wire off the batten pockets. My 2 cents.
 
John
You posted while I was typing. Wow, Ted and I agree. Your current main might be just the ticket for those sultry summer days on Champlain. Other than the flapping on the backstay in powerboat wakes on windless days.
 
Well gees, Ted designed the boat after all! <img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0">

Brand new main too. For now we will just reef till we wear it out.
 
Okay, here is the comparison of the difference between my main sail on the right and the original standard configuration as designed on the left. You can see there is not only a substantial difference in the square foot of sail area (to aft) but the roached main does hit the backstay.

17375.png
 
I don't understand using a main that hangs up on the backstay? Unless you are ALWAYS sailing in LIGHT air, you need to be prepared to reef the main and either change or reduce the headsail. The Morgan is not a race boat and comfort and safety are the main concerns. Speed we are discussing is minor in my opinion. Isn't sailing about enjoyment?
Jim
 
Your right...but if you read the posts I did not order the main sail, it came with the boat jim.
The previous owner ordered it the year before I purchased the boat. I got the boat in November of 09.
He used to race in light air I guess. When I order a new main I will get the standard cut. Otherwise, we'll be reefing or reefed quite often when it pipes up.
Anybody want a new light air racing main sail? <img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0">
 
I understand that the previous owner made the mistake and I did not intentionally mean you. Why not try to have the current main re-cut?
 
Why don't you alter your current sail? Should cost that much. It's certainly much cheaper than another new sail.
 
John, I have some friends from the Fairhaven YC who retired and hit the ICW for points south this August. They are using their motor much more than their sails on their way to FLA. So FWIW, sounds like parallel fuel filters, and a new cutlass bearing might be as important as sails.

And bring your ski jackets and down sleeping bags. The further south they go, the colder its getting.

D
 
Hi John:
I'd be happy to take your light-air main off your hands ;-)

Until we move Paragon to the coast, a light air main works well for us. Though I agree for longevity and better balance, a more conventional cut makes sense.

The extra sail area the big roach on the main of our small racing boat is a good, and un-rated addition. It overlaps the backstay by more than a foot making tacks in light air a challenge. We try to roll-tack it to help the main move across with enough speed to clear the backstay - OK on a 1400 lb boat by something we haven't mastered on the 9 ton Morgan.

-Alan
 
You guys are always good for laughs! <img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0">

Thanks for all the sincere advice and suggestions. Be ordering our head sail this week.
 
So Dave when you coming over for a sail? It's only 25 degrees out,,,should be fun. We are looking at Key Largo as a starting destination then back up to Maine perhaps.
We really love our boat!
 
John
I used to race as rail meat with 3-5 J-24's on Skaneateles Lake in December. I might be over that.

On the other hand, on a sunny day... on a Morgan (with better non skid than mine) why not? You wouldn't have to watch out for boats behind the genoa!

How is you boat getting to Largo?
And when?
 
We will be taking her down, Caravaning with who ever we find along the way. (well, not just whoever but you get the idea) towards Fall.
Still want to check out NC.
 
John,
You did a great job with drawn lines showing the difference in the main.
As you say, clearly the previous owner had a very custom sail cut for light air racing. Jay suggested cutting the leech down to a proper size. It sounds like a good idea to me. Investing a few hundred dollars in an almost new sail is much cheaper than ordering a new main. The only thing I would check out first is the weight of the sailcloth. The previous owner might have had the sail made with a lighter then normal cloth if he was so interested in light air performance.
Ted Brewer's designed sail plan has worked fine for me. In friendly club racing PHURF, we don't do well in very light air. In 12knts of wind we keep up with the fleet. When the wind is blowing 15knts. or more we do well. And for crusing with just my wife as crew the standard sails are very civilized.
I had my genoa cut to my desire for a clear view under the sail when looking forward and heeled over. The clew is 2 or 3 feet higher then normal design. Although it is a 150% overlap, because of the raised foot it has less sail area then a 150. It's probably closer to 140 in actual area. I'm due for a new genoa, maybe next year and I will have it made the same way. It has worked great for me.
I guess your job now is to take all this information that everyone has contributed and decide what is going to make you comfortable considering what you want for your style of sailing. There is no right or wrong. The previous owner proves that. He set the boat up to sail to his expectations. Now it's your turn.
 
Guys: Don't understand all these sail duscussions. These boats are approx 30 years old or more and shouldbe consideredcruising boats at this time. Yes we all want them to sail as best they can. We finished 3rd in the 1999 Marion/Bermuda using a 1978 Ed Thurston 147 jib and double reefed main by thurston/Quantom main. The 147 was cut down by Thurston from my hank on 150. My current sails are a 120 jib and main by Rollie Tasker bought thru National Sail Supply in Florida and are great, Maintained by Thurston /Quantom in Bristal R.I. . We still use the 147 at age 33 on crusiser/racer events this season. Current sails made in Thiland by Tasker John or Morgan in Marion Ma. so you should near by. Phone 508 748 0516 but we will not be back 4/14/11.

Dick
Sent from Yirgin
 
Whoa, this has all been a lot to digest. I am currently replacing my sails on my 384 and adding the Tides Track System. Been looking at going to a fully battened main. Any experience out there with this set up? IE: Ease to raise, reef, performance benefits?
Larry M.
 
Here are current quotes I have for replacing my sails. Any thoughts?

Morgan 38-3/4
I=50.000 J=16.300 E=13.000 P=42.500

Fullbatten Main 350F Premium Dacron $2,723
Includes 5 battens and 2 reefs

135% RF Genoa 7.3 oz. Premium Dacron $3,231
LPT Pentex/S-glass $4,170
Includes reefing patches and UV sunshield

Tides Marine Luff System $1,005

Cradle Cover Sunbrella $1,110
 
Larry,
No direct experience with Tides but I looked at it carefully at the Annapolis show. It seemed simple to install, relatively fool proof. I don't recall how one reefs the main: ie. getting the sail out of the track to the tack hook.

I have a FB main with the old track and clip system. I get wear on the batten ends from contact with the mast. (Some leather sewn to the leading edge would cure that). With some McLube sprayed on clips & track in the spring, it goes up easily on my fresh water lake.

Given the substantial cost difference between Tides & the metal track/cars systems of the "usuals" I too, thought it was the way to go. I'm interested in hearing other opinions as well.
Dave
 
Larry the prices are in line, generally, with what I paid Banks local guy to build my sails. (What is a cradle cover?)

Larry and Dave: I have the Tides system. I love it. Idiot proof. Easey to install, once the proper slugs are on the sail. Reefs in high winds, sail goes up easily and comes down quickly. I have had mine for several years with no problems at all. On fully battened mains, I have one and am still undecided. the primary issue is installing and retaining battens well and securely. But that may be only because I am not sure my sailmaker, who is otherwise quite good, never quite built the batten pockets the way I wanted. The one slight "problem" with the tides system is that the battens come in from the leech (on some more expensive systems, the battens come in from the luffs.) My sail maker had to modify the leech closures a couple of times because they would open in high winds and I would lose battens. Don't use just velcro--have something that ties down--although then you get some bumps and turbulence off the leech. An alternative is a full batten for the top one or two battens and then shorter, standard battens for the lower two.
 
Terry
Thanks for the Tides feed back. Refresh my memory on reefing. How does the cringle get to the reef hook at the gooseneck? Jacklines?

I've had full batten mains on my last 3 boats. I wouldn't buy/own a cruising main without them. I think (with all respect to your sailmaker) that his pocket design is compromised but I'm no sailmaker. Mine go in from the leech, have a sewn in elastic retaining loop that fits in a notch in the batten. Big velcro pocket hold it all together. I lost one when the topping lift was hitting the leech. My fault.
D
 
On reefing, my system works just like a standard track. the tides slugs stay on the mast, the lowered luff sits above the end of the track, and the reef cringle simply slips over the reefing hook. the tides system changed none of that.
 
I also notice a difference with full battens. I would not be without them.
I am sure my wife appreciates the ease of raising and lowering the main with the strong track system.
We just ordered our 8.3 oz 135% Genoa Dacron Challenge from Doyle Sails. The loft is close to the boat, 3 year guarantee... $2700.
Our main is one season old. Full batten and is 8.6 Dacron with sail track system was $4,500. The previous owner had this installed just before we purchased the boat last November.

I really liked the Quantum/Thurston sail loft but the nearest one is too far for adjustments etc. and was $1,000 more.
I felt like all of the sail companies we contacted were good. It just got down to service, proximity and $1,000 more was too big a difference. We tried to be sure we were comparing apples to apples. It is so easy to play with sail construction to alter the price.
Be sure it is all spelled out exactly what you are getting.
My two cents worth.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Terry, the cradle cover is a main sail cover with a zipper on top. The cover is permanently in place on top the boom. As the sail drops it falls into the cover. I have seen them on a few boats, not sure I like the look and wonder how it might effect sail performance.
Larry
 
I am a new 383 owner, but shared another boat with a cradle cover for 5-6 years. It sure beat sail ties, it included lazy jacks, and the only minor problem was reaching the end of the boom to start the zipper. I don't feel there was any impact on performance, but it isn't "traditional" looking. With the lazy jacks tied correctly, it hung just to the bottom of the boom and was not noticable. I'll consider it for my new Morgan when I'm done fixing many other things.
 
This I cannot understand! Is it that much work to put a sail cover on, even with lazy jacks on the boat? Any cover can be cut to fit lazy jacks.

I have sailed a cat with this type of cover and it is not great and the zipper is always exposed to the elements.

To me, this one step away from either inboom or inmast furling. Where is the sail handling? Just an "old school" opinion for what's it worth.
Jim
 
Yes Jim, I'm kind of with you, too. This was a well cut loose footed sail and performed well. We had two reef lines always ready to go, and I never paid much attention to the cradle cover. The sail dropped very quickly (Harken slides) and we could go from full on sailing to covered (except for the section around the mast) in about 60 seconds. Maybe I'm lazy, but when I was sailing my new (to me) Morgan last fall, I spent alot of time up on the coach roof putting the main to bed with ties and cover, reminding me of "the good old days". With the cradle cover there is nothing to carry up there with you either, so there's an element of safety in that. However, I do certainly believe a person should be comfortable with all kinds of equipment, and there is something to say for "sail handling" that keeps you in touch with your boat, the wind, and the waters around you. I guess I'm a begrudgingly accomodating traditionalist, I am sure in love with my new 383 (formerly known on this site as Panache). --Rolf
 
Looks like you purchased a great boat! Putting a mailsail to bed is always a pain and different on the longer but somewhat lower, boomed 382.
Jim
 
All,

Someone on my dock mentioned that he had heard that a light colored UV strip such as white or light grey would not protect the sail as well as darker colors like Navy Blue, Black etc.

Anyone have any information on this?

Tim S/V Expatriate
 
I was told that as long as it's Sunbrella it works pretty good. (Doyle) Sunbrella comes in a white colored UV Cloth. Two other sail lofts said that the dark colors work better.
If it has UV protection - chemical protection it should work well enough.
Esthetics not withstanding <img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0">
 
Here is some more info
How Sun Protection Clothing Works

Q: What makes some fabrics more effective at disrupting UV rays than others?

A: There are a variety of factors:

* Construction: Dense, tight construction (either weaves or knits) minimizes the spaces between yarns, which in turn minimizes the amount of UV light that can pass through. Some tightly constructed UPF-rated garments use vents to boost air circulation and help the wearer stay cool. Thicker fabrics also help reduce UV transmission.
* Dyes: It is the specific type of dye (and the concentration in which it is used) that impacts a fabric's UV transmission, not its color. Some dyes deflect more UV radiation than others, and some absorb none at all'including black dyes. How can one know what kind of dyes are used in individual garments? The only tip-off is if the garment carries a UPF rating. Clothing engineered for UV protection may use high concentrations of premium dyes that disrupt UV light. Such dyes include "conjugated" molecules that disrupt UV radiation. The higher the concentration of such dyes, the darker the garment becomes. But ultimately color has no influence on UV rays. Note: Pigment-dyed fabrics, which include a resin that creates a powdery look and feel, get high marks for UV protection.
* Treatments: Chemicals effective at absorbing UV light may be added during processing. Specialized laundry additives, which include optical brightening agents and newly developed UV-disrupting compounds, can boost a garment's UPF rating.
* Fiber type: Polyester does an excellent job at disrupting UV light (due to hydrogen- and carbon-based benzene rings within the polymer). Nylon is good. Wool and silk are moderately effective. Cotton, rayon, flax and hemp fabrics (natural fibers composed of cellulose polymers) often score low without added treatments. However, unbleached or naturally colored cotton performs better at interacting with UV light than bleached cotton.
* Stretch: If a garment is stretched 10% or more beyond its normal dimensions, spaces between yarns are widened and its effectiveness against UV light may be reduced up to 40%.
* Wetness: A fabric's ability to disrupt UV radiation is usually reduced when wet, though the reasons why are not completely understood. Wetness may cause a 30% to 50% reduction in a fabric's UPF rating.
* Condition: Worn or faded fabrics are less effective against UV light.
 
John,

I read a couple of interesting theories about sacrificial UV strip online the other day. The first theory was that lighter colors reflected more light and were preferable. I doubt that they would reflect more UV because UV is not even in the visible spectrum. The second theory was that darker colors were more opaque. Again, I doubt that they are more opaque to UV than other colors for the same reason.

The third theory was that darker colors absorbed more solar radiation and were hotter. The heat would not damage the sail, but would help to kill mold and mildew. I might believe this one based on personal experience.

When we bought the boat it had white UV on the jib and a white mainsail cover. The boat had sat for 5 years and both sails had a lot of "green stuff" and a good bit of "black stuff" growing on them. My wife insisted on a roller furling main, so I replaced a pretty good, although filthy, full batten main.

The main was servicable so I put it in the attic where it stayed for over a year. I finally sold it to a guy in Mobile with a Morgan 383, and told him up front that it would need serious if not professional cleaning. When I took it out of the attic and ufolded it in the yard it was clean as a whistle. The heat in the attic had killed all the stuff growing on it. I could hardly believe my eyes.
 
Tim,
I have been told by sailmakers that black thread holds up a lot better undrr the sun than white thread, It would stand that this is true for dark sunbrella vs. light sumbrella. UV covers for furling sails are made of sunbrella.
 
You have to request Sunbrella from some sail lofts. It has to have UV blocking properties as stated in the above Jan 10th posting.
 
I have always assumed that all Sunbrella had UV blocking properties. I should keep my eyes open. My white UV strip seems to be holding up. I must assume that as long as it is still there the sail is OK. I look at the sail under the UV now and then and the thread seems to be OK. In my experience thread always goes first.

Has anyone had an experience like mine where putting a sail in the attic killed the mildew? It was just so wierd.
 
Timothy,
I am not sure where you live but here in Houston the attics get above 120 deg F in the summer, this is so hot that it would probably harm the sail cloth. It would also kill most living organisms.
 
Jose,

I live in Florida and I was worried by your post, thinking I had sold a damaged sail to a fellow Morgan owner. However, I did take the sail out and inspect before sale and found no problems. The sail was stored right next to the ladder on the attic floor. Probably one of the cooler parts of the attic, but definitely very hot in the summer.

I searched for articles on sail storage and found that heat below 160 deg. F will not deform the sail, but they did not mention degradation due to heat. I also saw that the sails are manufactured by heat "setting" the fabic sometimes sshrinking it by 20%. Sailcloth is also baked to drive off liquids from the fillers. So I started to feel a little better about the heat.

One danger of attic storage seems to be direct contact with a metal roof. Most of the experts dwell on the detrimental effects of chemicals, sunlight, and chafe. Having said all this, I also saw several people advise not storing your sails in the trunk of you car etc. So I may have dodged a bullet this time.
 
Need Help finding good used Main Sail and Jib. Had all my sails stolen from me during a refit. Does anybody know where I can find Good used sails? Limited funds so new is out of the question. Refit took it's toll on the wallet. I have a '78 M382.

Thanks
Wally
 
Wally:

Try National Sail Supply. They are in Fort Meters Fl. Phone 800 611 3823. Dirk Sharland runs the place. You could also try Bacon Assoc. They are in Maryland I think. Good luck'


Dick
 
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune. Jerry at Sailcare has used sails on hand, he also has extensive knowledge of the Morgan 38. Ford City, PA 800-433-7245 May try Porpoise Sailing Service...haven't dealt with him directly, he's out of Sarasota....800-507-0119. Good luck in your search.
 
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune. Jerry at Sailcare has used sails on hand, he also has extensive knowledge of the Morgan 38. Ford City, PA 800-433-7245 May try Porpoise Sailing Service...haven't dealt with him directly, he's out of Sarasota....800-507-0119. Good luck in your search.

Chris
 
wild382 said:
Your right...but if you read the posts I did not order the main sail, it came with the boat jim.
The previous owner ordered it the year before I purchased the boat. I got the boat in November of 09.
He used to race in light air I guess. When I order a new main I will get the standard cut. Otherwise, we'll be reefing or reefed quite often when it pipes up.
Anybody want a new light air racing main sail? <img src="http://morgan38.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif" alt=":)" border="0">
Click to expand...
How much you want for it , I just got the boat and on low budget ?
 
jason_hoff said:
Hi all, I bought my 382 about a year and a half ago now, I just found your discussion board recently and having been reading many of the threads, a really excellent discussion board here - thanks to the administrator and all the long time owners / posters on the board.

I am in the process of buying new sails right now, and was just wondering if anyone here has any thoughts or feedback. I have a strong track and batt cars so I am going with a bull batten main, I am also getting a 120% genoa and a cruising chute. I got some quotes from various local lofts (in houston, tx area): Neil Pryde Sails (cameron), Banks Sails, UK-Halsey, and also from 2 discount online lofts: Rolly Tasker Sails, Lee Sails.

The price quotes I got were:

Main (full batt, 3 reefs):
Neil Pryde: ($3461 - 10%) + 6.25% tax == $3309.00
Banks: $3360.00 + 6.25% tax == $3570.00
UK: $2700.00 + 8.25% tax == $2922.00
Rolly Tasker: $1821.00 (incl. shipping)
Lee Sails: $1500.00 (incl. shipping)

Genoa (120%):
Neil Pryde: ($3615 - 10%) + 6.25% tax == $3456.00
Banks: $2480 + 6.25% tax == $2635.00
UK: $2350.00 ($2100.0 + $250.00 for foam) + 8.25% tax == $2543.00
Rolly Tasker: $1855.00 (incl. shipping)
Lee Sails: $1915.00 (incl. shipping)

Chute (tri-radial, 46' x 27', sock):
Neil Pryde: $2800.00
Banks: $2800.00
UK: $2800.00
Rolly Tasker: $2000.00
Lee Sails: $1850.00

The spec sheets they sent me were very similar between all the lofts, so obviously the mail order lofts seem like the best deal ... but I am little hesitant just because they are sooo much less expensive. Anyone have any experience with discount lofts? Also, anyone have any thoughts on full vs. partial or no battens, or on the optimum size of genoa for these boats? I was a little hesitant to go with the full batten main because my boat has a lot of weather helm and I always reef the main first, so I didnt want to add more power to the main - but I just raised my gooseneck 20" to make room for a full height bimini and the area of the new full batt main will recover the 8% or so I lost by raising the boom ...
Click to expand...
Do you have the old sails and would you part with the main ? I’m not sure if the guy I got the boat from will produce it , he’s searching his storage
 
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