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Morgan 382 engine mounts

svsolaris

New Member
Hello out there,

I may be purchasing a Morgan 382 in the coming weeks. There's been some discrepancy between surveyors regarding the engine mounts. This Morgan has a Perkins 108 50hp. From what I understand the mounts were made from plywood with a good amount of fiberglass around them. I have been told that the plywood has now rotted out but the fiberglass mounts are solid. One surveyor said the engine needs to be pulled to repair with an estimate cost of 5-6k CDN. Another said the following "The plywood underneath the engine mounts were just there to give her a shape so that they could put about 50 pounds of fiberglass material creating the mount, plywood can dissolve and rot away, and it will in no way impede the structural integrity of those engine mounts"

Does anyone have experience with this? Is the first or second surveyor correct?

Thanks for your help,
Jay
 

svsolaris

New Member
Just got back from viewing the boat. See picture below. What one surveyor said is that the wood inside the engine bed is rotted out (stringers?). I tapped on it and its at least de-laminated as it sounds somewhat hollow. Two other surveyors thought this wasn't an issue. I haven't had a survey completed on my dime yet. Thoughts? I don't see any play on the actual motor mounts, they seem securely fastened from what I can tell. No cracking.

engine bay.jpg
 
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jimcleary

James M. Cleary
I think what they are talking about is the wood core of the stringers. The motor mounts are the standard hard rubber in the round steel housing. The stringers, or rails that the engine sits on are wood coated over with woving and glass. the wood core, especially where the lag bolts that hold the motor mounts are held, can be soft and rotted. Someone has obviously addressed this problem as evidenced by the steel angle iron under each mount. There are no lag bolts. The mount is bolted to the angle iron and the angle iron is then bolted through the stringer at 90 degrees to the mount. These mounts look OK in the photo. As long as the rubber of the mounts appears to be solid, there should not be a problem.

Jim
 

rickdowe2

Richard Dowe
For what it is worth, my boat is setup the same way. Angle iron through bolted to the frame.
Year, 1980.
 

svsolaris

New Member
Thanks Rick. Do the stringers seem solid that the angle is mounted to? These ones sound hollow so I would assume they should be fixed sooner than later just to be safe. I don't feel its a deal breaker for me. The boat is priced accordingly.
 

jimcleary

James M. Cleary
A number of years ago when I removed the engine for an overhaul, I found that the wood in the stringers was soft only where the lag bolts entered. The rest of the wood was dry and good. To solve that I drilled out where the bolts were and epoxyed in 1" oak dowels. When the engine went back, the lag bolts were bedded in the new wood dowels. They still seem to be tight all these years later.

Jim
 

rickdowe2

Richard Dowe
I have tightened the bolts but have not removed them. I suppose you could take a hole saw and cut though just the fiberglass to check out the condition of the wood.
 

dave_a

Dave Ahlers
I wonder how the surveyor determined the wood inside was rotted. Did he have a moisture meter? Pull a lag bolt out? Put a wrench on it and it spun/striped? Sounds like he was a powerboat guy referring to what he'd seen on innumerable Bayliners or something similar. Where the stringers sit in bilge water. I think surveyor # 1 was blowing smoke. Those engine beds sit high and dry under almost all circumstances, and yours look just like mine. Not to disparage the trade, but:
One can take a correspondence course and become a surveyor. There are widely varying skill and knowledge levels among surveyors. Interview a lot before picking one to check your boat out. Remember they HAVE to find something to justify their fee. Don't worry too much, just fix it.
 

svsolaris

New Member
All good info. The first surveyor had an issue with the owner which didn't help with the findings. The two other surveyors didn't think it was an issue. It sounds hollow to me so I imagine it will need to be replaced/fixed at some point to ensure strength. This is the only issue I can find on the boat, its in great shape inside and out. A few cosmetic things to address but in general I'm impressed. Looks like we'll be putting in an offer and going from there!
 

jose santin

Member
Why not remove one of the bolts that secure the bracket to the stringer and check for the condition of the wood. No extra holes would be needed unless there is sign of moisture.
 

stnick

lee nicholas
You could remove a bolt and see OR you could take a hole saw say one inch and do a core sample ! 1- 1 1/2 deep if its hollow or wet rot which i doubt. Just epoxy yjr plug back in place or do a pour or inject resin inside the Engine stringer. My guess its solid. Eather way new epoxy sure will not hurt the stringer. Like a get rot penetrating epoxy !
I really doubt its a issue but if it is drill some holes and fill with penetrating epoxy . Job done !
Enjoy your new boat shes a strong built well sailing boat ! ENJOY and welcome
 

rene_m

Rene Marin
In 2013 I bought a 79 382.
Same situation soft plywood in the engine supports. And i ran into the same situation no one would agree if it was a problem or not.
Here are the results of a LOT of research. I Even went so far as to contact Catalina who " very reluctantly "put me in contact with a former employee who came over in the Morgan buy out.

His statement was;
""Son that area was so over built to support a known heavy vibrational engine. First we built the hull and its thick in that area. Then we built 3/4 plywood boxes then wrapped them and flowed them in to the hull. After we were done that glass is more than an inch thick with saturated matt then mesh over. There was no way to get the box out after.
Someone wants to cut that open and replace the plywood? That's like saying the guy that poured a foundation For your house just make it weak by removing the forms. He's a moron.""
Are there cracks? Splits? De laminating?
No? Then leave it the hell alone. Because you will never get it as strong again.
He was a neat old guy and I would have paid dearly just to sit and buy him beer and just listen.

I had a surveyor tell me the bottom was going to fall out.... when I took it to a Marine shop that I trust. They told me that they were in 100% agreement with the old guy. " we will do what ever you say but, we can not guarantee that the repair will be as strong as what it is now.
 

dave_a

Dave Ahlers
Ah Geez, I think you'll be just fine. There is no vibration problem right, just a surveyor saying something's wrong? His last inspection must have been a Bayliner! Now they can have wet stringers. Pull a horizontal bolt out of one of the mounts - see if its wet!
I had a boat with three (of 4) broken lag bolts going into the stringers. (no real engine mounts like the Perkins). The movement ate the transmission output bearing. Sounded a bit like a cement mixer with rocks. Replaced the lags, cut a deflated fender as rubber shimming. Got the shaft flange faces surprisingly close, though not quite within specs. New cutlass bearing. Never a problem. This isn't a space shuttle.
The point is as the old Morgan guy said: the glass roving is thick enough on its own. The wood was just for shape. How could that area get wet anyway? Unless the boat was submerged!
 

rene_m

Rene Marin
Wet box is due to temperature difference. The ambient air in the engine area is diffrent than the outside water temp and with out any type of air movement in those mostly sealed boxes.. they sweat and the wood soaks it up.
 
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