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Morgan 382 Drawings

Warren Holybee

Warren Holybee

Active Member
I know that several of us have purchased the drawing set from Mr. Brewer. I had mine digitized today to preserve them. Cost was just over $100 at FedEx Office. I have wondered a few times when the topic drawings have come up before, that it seems we might not have all received the same set. Or, maybe the quality of prints varies. A couple of my are poor. So, I was wondering if those of us who have purchased the drawings should share what we have with each other. My list is:

Accommodations
Sole Detail
Integral Glass Unit(usable but not perfect)
Joiner Sections
Laminate Schedule
Laminate Midship Section
Lines Drawing
Rudder (useable, but not perfect)
Sail Plan
Sailmakers Plan (Very poor. My original is an actual blueprint and not a copy that seems quite old)
Staysail Stay

I would really like a good copy of the Sailmakers Plan. If no one has a good copy I might spend some time trying to restore it.

I am not sure about sharing them with those that have not purchased them. They are copyrighted and cost a fair amount of money to obtain. I heard a rumor on Facebook that Ted's children intended to continue to make the drawings available, but I doubt that happened. But I will leave that up for discussion, as if they are unavailable for purchase it might be ok to make them available on the site.
 
I only have the "owner's plans: accommodation, basic lines drawing, basic sail plan, and one more I can't remember. They are all marked "copyrighted, do not duplicate." I would like to have more, but never pursued it. When I was considering the boat, I talked to Ted Brewer for a few minutes. I thought Ted's wife was keeping up his website and plan inquiry, but that was months ago. I look forward to hearing from others.
 
Warren,
I have pretty much the same drawings.
Internal Glass Unit
Rudder Assembly Installation
Sail Plan
Accommodations
Laminate Description - Midship Section
Laminate Schedule -Hull and Deck
Lines Drawing
Joiner Sections

Two that I have that it looks like you and Terry do not are:
Deck Mold
Staysail Stay Hookup

But I do not have the Sailmakers Plan or Sole Detail.

Great idea having the digitized. I will look into doing the same.

I agree, if his family is no longer maintaining them and selling them I would think it ok to share here. I’d think of it as preserving history.
 
I do have the Staysail Stay drawing. I might have asked Ted specifically for that because it is something I intend to do. I know a number of members have expressed interest in that particular drawing as well. I started to restore the Sailmakers plan last night, and it is coming out nicely. It is mostly the exact same drawing as the sail plan, but dimensions added for a sailmaker. And a chart of sail sizes. I think that chart has been cut out and posted here before. One detail I didn't notice until I started the restoration and really looked at it close, Ted specifies 2" of rake to the mast.

I wonder. If I am the only one that got the Sailmakers Plan, and of my drawings it is the only one that is an actual blueprint and not a copy, did I get an old print?
 
Warren,
Sonata has a staysail or inner stay that has been added. I don't know if it corresponds to Ted's drawings or not. It terminates on the mast roughly at the spreaders. I believe it was added prior to the boat doing the Pac Cup way back when and was intended to hoist a heavy weather jib, or stay sail. Which I have but have never taken out of it's bag. One of these days when other projects slow down I intend to hoist all the different sails, inspect and try to figure them out.

There is also a trisail with a separate track on the mast to port of the main track.

You're welcome to look it over sometime if you'd like to see how it was accomplished. I have it in place to help with the high wind mast shudder or pumping. It helps some. Tacking with in place is a little more work than without of course. It's mounted with a "Highfield" lever.
Mitchell
 
Ted's plans have the staysail attach much higher. About halfway between the spreaders and the top of the mast. The bulkhead of the anchor locker is doubled up and the chainplate attached there. The stay is parallel to the forestay. Running backstays are attached to the deck at the larger windows at the chart table and galley.

The plans include drawings for the chainplate, mast bracket, tangs for the running stays, ready to give to a fabricator to weld up. As well as a parts list for the Highfield lever, blocks for the running stays, etc.

The Staysail is on the Sail Plan, but oddly, not the sailmakers plan. Both dated '77
 
I think I've seen that drawing too. Does it specify a bow sprit moving the headstay forward as well? I know there was a drawing for a sprit too.
The way Sonatas inner stay is set up doesn't need running backs.
I've thought about a Solent stay to be able to change down to a blade with the Genoa furled. But so far don't get to sail enough to warrant that.
M
 
No, there is no bowsprit. I have never seen that, and I doubt it is a Ted Brewer modification. I would be very curious to see it, though. More so if it really is a Ted Brewer modification.

I have learned that the family has sent all of Ted's Drawings to the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes for preservation. The Museum will make them available to anyone that wants them. I have asked the Museum for permission to distribute the drawings here.
 
Warren, that's wonderful news on the museum being involved.
I think the bow sprit modification was a Brewer drawing. Ptobably after the initial plans were drawn. I think I have it saved someplace and will try to find it. I believe I came across it here on a thread.
M
 
I found the drawing you are refering to:
I don't think the bowsprit is Ted's work. This looks like something someone else added later. It is the same date and same drawing number as the one I have, and of you study it, the line weight and line quality of the bowsprit and boom for the staysail are clearly different from the rest. And Ted was an artist with lettering. I've been spending work making some text more readable on his drawings, so looking close at his lettering. I don't think the lettering for the Staysail is in his hand.
I do like it though. A modification to ponder, and I think I will archive the plan with my others.
 
Looking at this drawing with a different viewpoint than before, I agree. It probably was someone else's hand.
I do think it makes sense in respect to adding a staysail and its effectiveness. It would need to be very robust to move the headstay to the sprit. But I think it almost mandatory if setting up a cutter rig. Both for balance and sail, slot separation. It might also help flying an asymmetrical.
And might possibly make a good anchor platform.
Opinions?
 
There is a Florida Morgan with a big bowsprit, I think. It was for sale a while back. Brewer designed the cutter rig without a sprit. And no boom, which is mostly a useless appendedge on a small boat. I don't see how one could have a staysail as Brewer suggested without running backs. That is why I have a Solent stay and Solent jib. Not perfect, but for offshore, where you are not short tacking, it works fine. Indeed, if I were going long distance again, I would put it on a furler. The tack is at the bow, just forward of the anchor locker. The chain plate goes through the bow and has 4 big bolts to hold the plate to the outside of the bow.

Warren: Are we now sure that we can get drawings from the Marine Museum. They will still be copyrighted, surely. I am willing to pay, of course.
 
The 38x has the mast further aft than the CM38. I think that was done to accommodate the staysail. And the suggested sails as a sloop are either very large, or have a pendent. That moves the coe aft. So balance with the cutter i expect would be fine.

The drawings probably are still technically copyrighted, but that copyright probably belongs to the museum. And i suspect the museum would make them available for just the cost of duplicating, not for any profit motive, since that isn't thier mission, rather they wish to preserve history and make that history available.

So, i asked, who knows what their answer will be? I got an automated response that said general inquiries will be responded to as quickly as possible, but for an inquiry about archived documents it might take 3 weeks. So hopefully the answer is something like, "sure, if we don't have to do the work, thats fine."
 
I was considering a solent instead of a cutter, but i have changed my mind. The staysail would not be used very often so i can deal with the running stays. I think in heavy weather and big seas a staysail further aft will point and sail better. It was one of the more frustrating aspects of Eliana's sailing ability. Sailing into 25kts and a nasty swell, just doesn't work. I might point to 40 degrees apparent, but was moving sideways making no progress at all.

It depends on where/how you sail. Its possible to do both.
 
I think you are correct. A cutter is the preferred offshore rig. But, I would prefer a true cutter, with a high cut yankee. Not a cutter on which one tries to run a genoa. When I went with a Solent rig, I did it because I did not trust (and still not trust) the efficiency of a partially furled genoa. It was also much simpler and cheaper. My storm jib also hanks onto the Solent stay and is, thus, really too far forward. But I must say, in 20-25 knots of wind, the Solent jib my sailmaker made for me is a marvelously efficient and close-winded sail. Since the stay is removable and thus sags a bit, he cut the sail to take that into account. And the Morgan performs wonderfully under reefed main and Solent jib, with a nice balanced helm.
 
I have not received an answer from the Musuem. They did acknowledge receipt of the inquiry and were forwarding to the appropriate person. Here is what I believe, and what I am prepared to do. (I am not an attorney, this is just what I found online) Unless Ted filed for and paid for an extension of copyright, they expired 28 years after creation. If by chance he did, then preserving them here as a good chance of falling under fair use. And the copyright (if he renewed it) was transferred to a museum, which the best I can tell would provide them for free or for a small duplication fee, except that they are apparently too busy to do so.

I certainly felt it important to not share the drawings while Mr. Brewer was still actively selling them, but since his family has given them up, I see no harm in sharing them here. If the museum should object and claim copyright of the drawings, of course I would comply, but I think that is very slim. So, I am going to start another thread in the history and reference section and start posting what I have.
 
I agree, Warren.
I was honored to talk with Ted some 12 years ago, and I respect his work. But if his heirs think we are making $ on the drawings, then I hereby gift them this forum.

Cheers!
Mark
 
terry_thatcher said:
I think you are correct. A cutter is the preferred offshore rig. But, I would prefer a true cutter, with a high cut yankee. Not a cutter on which one tries to run a genoa. When I went with a Solent rig, I did it because I did not trust (and still not trust) the efficiency of a partially furled genoa. It was also much simpler and cheaper. My storm jib also hanks onto the Solent stay and is, thus, really too far forward. But I must say, in 20-25 knots of wind, the Solent jib my sailmaker made for me is a marvelously efficient and close-winded sail. Since the stay is removable and thus sags a bit, he cut the sail to take that into account. And the Morgan performs wonderfully under reefed main and Solent jib, with a nice balanced helm.
Click to expand...
Hi Terry
If you leave the Solent stay in place are you able to tack your Genoa? It would be nice to be able to leave the working jib hanked on in a bag.
John
 
Warren Holybee said:
I was considering a solent instead of a cutter, but i have changed my mind. The staysail would not be used very often so i can deal with the running stays. I think in heavy weather and big seas a staysail further aft will point and sail better. It was one of the more frustrating aspects of Eliana's sailing ability. Sailing into 25kts and a nasty swell, just doesn't work. I might point to 40 degrees apparent, but was moving sideways making no progress at all.

It depends on where/how you sail. Its possible to do both.
Click to expand...
Hi Warren
Have you gone to a cutter rig? I think it might be possible without a bowsprit. I have a Solent rig now. Might also be possible without runners if keep staysail stay a bit high on mast?
John
 
John Flanzer
Just an aside from the topic. Where are you and Dawn now. Are you still going to put the boat up in the CT River?

Jim
 
Hi Jim,
We are back at Block. Plan to leave tomorrow for the CT River. Yes we will haul our there for the winter. Work on her a couple of months then fly home to Bradenton, FL. Block is surprisingly empty. Hello to Bonnie
Best,
John and Dawn
 
John Flanzer said:
Hi Warren
Have you gone to a cutter rig? I think it might be possible without a bowsprit. I have a Solent rig now. Might also be possible without runners if keep staysail stay a bit high on mast?
John
Click to expand...
Not yet, but I plan too. I will not be adding a bowsprit. I will probably follow Ted Brewers plan exactly, but I might raise the staysail sail higher on the mast instead of parallel to the forestay.
 
Hi Warren and Terry,

This is the best article I have read on the solent rig:

krakenyachts.com

Which is the perfect rig for blue water cruising? - Kraken Yachts

The Solent rig, also known as the ‘Slutter rig’, is arguably the perfect rig for short –handed, blue water cruising (shown to right).
krakenyachts.com krakenyachts.com

Kraken's founder does a good video on it also.
terry_thatcher said:
There is a Florida Morgan with a big bowsprit, I think. It was for sale a while back. Brewer designed the cutter rig without a sprit. And no boom, which is mostly a useless appendedge on a small boat. I don't see how one could have a staysail as Brewer suggested without running backs. That is why I have a Solent stay and Solent jib. Not perfect, but for offshore, where you are not short tacking, it works fine. Indeed, if I were going long distance again, I would put it on a furler. The tack is at the bow, just forward of the anchor locker. The chain plate goes through the bow and has 4 big bolts to hold the plate to the outside of the bow.

Warren: Are we now sure that we can get drawings from the Marine Museum. They will still be copyrighted, surely. I am willing to pay, of course
Click to expand...

I think that this is how I am going to go.

John
 
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