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Just Bought a 1971 Charley Morgan 38 -- #75

Parallax

Member
Not an experienced sailor. Learned to sail 30 years ago on a tiny boat on a small lake but it was very basic. It's a huge jump from that to a 38 foot sloop. But I live in the Pacific Northwest, right on the Puget Sound (or Salish Sea if you prefer). In Bellingham, not far from the San Juans. Can't think of a more wonderful place to own a boat if one loves idyllic settings.

My wife and I have friends who live on a sailboat. People who live and breath sailboats, own three, and work on them for a living. They've been encouraging us for years to get one and join them. Not in living on one, necessarily, but in recreating together. I've thought about it but it always seemed like a lot to take on. And then, recently, a good friend whom I really enjoy hanging out with, and with whom I've done a lot of projects -- everything from rebuilding a deck to restoring old Weber grills -- mentioned that he had found and was considering his 50+ year old Morgan. He's an experienced sailor and an excellent craftsman who can work in many media. So we test sailed it and decided to buy it together.

It's a 1971 Charley Morgan 38. Possibly the very last of the first run. I've read that there were 75 total build but then elsewhere I've seen estimates as high as 80. In any event, we have one of the last if not the very last off the line.

Morgan 38.jpg


She's in pretty good shape. The last owner did a lot of interior work, and completely redid the plumbing and the electrical systems. Does not have the latest and greatest electronics and the hull should be painted fairly soon. Appears to be a small leak over the electrical panel that we'll need to track down. The engine was changed out in 2008 and only has 400 hours. A 42HP Vetus 4cyl cylinder diesel. The sails are older but still functional. Got it briefly up to 7 knots in relatively light wind on the test sail, though it settled in at around 6.5. But the winds that day were blowing maybe 5 knots so it surprised me how beautifully it got up to speed once I had her on her side. The engine needs to be primed to start so we'll have to fix that. But, once fired up, it seemed to run almost as fast with the sails down. Not a racing boat, to be sure, but pretty darn fast for a cruiser. The center board was sticking, the last owner said he never used it, though we did get it to come down later on, after we had made the purchase. We'll need to get that figured out, perhaps once we haul her out to repaint the hull.

I think we got a really great deal. Paid $10k. It included the dinghy and a whole bunch of gear. Basically everything that was on board and all the parts he was planning to install over time. The former owner and his wife planned to settle in with this boat through their retirement years but then plans changed. He is moving to Texas and not planning to own another boat for a while. We did not have the boat inspected. He seemed an honest fellow. Went out of his way to point out every little thing thing that needs work. Of course he could be a faker and there could be things he's not aware of but we figured at this price, with my friend's skill set, and with other friends eager to share their extensive knowledge, most likely we'll be fine.

Here's the interior.

Morgan 38 Interior 1.jpg
Morgan 38 Interior 2.jpg


And a couple more from the outside:

Morgan 38 Front View.jpg
Morgan 38 Side View.jpg


Please let me know if there's anything we should be particularly aware of or on the lookout for. There's of course work to be done but it's also ready to be sailed and enjoyed.

My wife is very new to this and tends to get motion sick. Hopefully she'll learn to enjoy it. Our seven year old son too, though I think he'll be an easier sell.

A few more photos for good measure.

Against Island Trees.jpg
Sink.jpg
Stove.jpg
Helm.jpg
Single Berth.jpg
 
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This boat looks beautiful and sails even more beautifully
Enjoy❗⛵
Thanks K. We've been racing it weekly and having challenges. Mostly in low-wind conditions but also with steering. I'm going to run a camera under the hull this weekend to see if I can figure out what's up. I'm going to line up a diver to give it a good cleaning and replace the zinks. Beyond that, we'll see if there's a need for additional repairs.
I'm loving her in rough conditions with strong winds and big waves, She really rides well. In low winds she barely sails. There have been times we've not been able to get her off the line. I'm guessing whatever's wrong can be fixed. I'm still very happy with our purchase. Even when we struggle in a race, we still have fun. Just being on the water is awesome.
 
You got an incredible boat for $10k! I love the color scheme of the interior, not at all 1971 vintage Herculon plaid. That interior has obviously been redone by someone that knows what they are doing.
I would not expect or criticize a boat like this for it's performance when racing.
 
You got an incredible boat for $10k! I love the color scheme of the interior, not at all 1971 vintage Herculon plaid. That interior has obviously been redone by someone that knows what they are doing.
I would not expect or criticize a boat like this for it's performance when racing.
Thanks Struell. I agree. It is an awesome boat. The last owner redid the interior and a lot of structural stuff too. He seemed a very honest man and he told us he paid $12,500 for it in unsailable condition, sitting on stands, and then invested a lot of time and money into fixing it up. He and his wife sailed it for a few years and were planning to sail it many more, but then family circumstances forced a quick move to a location without access to a large enough body of water. He started out asking $25,000. Had he waited until spring, he'd probably have gotten at least $20k. But it was the worst time of the year to sell around here, when it's cold and wet. Also, despite all the work he'd done, he didn't paint the outside of the boat so patches and discoloration ruins the appeal from the dock. We plan to haul it out and paint it after the summer.

We were lucky to get this deal. I bargained him down from $12,000 the day we bought it (because the drop board was sticking in the up position and we weren't sure how much work it would take to fix). He had received a full priced ($12k) offer that morning but the guy wanted to pay $1,000 a month for 12 months and the last owner didn't trust that. He had limited time to get the boat sold, though he told me if he didn't get at least $10k, he planned to store it on blocks and return in the spring to sell. He said he made a ton of money on the slip, which he's bought for $17,500 a few years back and had just sold (to someone else, not us) for $70,000. So this "fire sale" as he called it was satisfactory to him, and we told him that when he and his wife return, if the timing works, perhaps we can let them borrow it.

After we got the boat, we were able to get the drop board to release. We're re-rigging the cable so it can be raised, and when we haul it out, we'll address any issues in the mechanism. Right now it makes a clunking sound at times so I'm sure there's something to resolve. Until then, we're working on other things while taking out to sail when we have time.

In addition to the boat, he threw in all of the equipment on board. Everything from the dinghy to life jackets to books, extra sails, dishes, etc., etc. Pretty much everything one needs to sail for days at a time in the Puget Sound.
 
Lack of responsiveness in low wind. Sometimes we have to let out the genoa a bit or we lose steering. I'm guessing that the wind pushing hard on the front sail pulls the back of the boat a bit out of the water and a rudder that's already shallow, to match the shallow keel, loses effectiveness.
Tried to run a camera under the boat this weekend but it just rained a whole bunch and the water was really turbid. The marina is right at the outlet of a river. Will try again when it's clearer. The bottom doesn't appear to be dirty but that's just based on the tiny bit one sees near the water line.
 
Morgans are pretty heavy. It is way worse in reverse, I've heard it to be like a drunken elephant and agree. As long as the rudder moves freely it doesn't appear to be anything out of the ordinary. Some folks have added on to the rudder to make it larger and they say it seems to help. Our 79 38 does not turn on a dime. You can check to see if it's a steering problem by testing with no sails, just motor. If your sails are set wrong anything is possible.
 
Morgans are pretty heavy. It is way worse in reverse, I've heard it to be like a drunken elephant and agree. As long as the rudder moves freely it doesn't appear to be anything out of the ordinary. Some folks have added on to the rudder to make it larger and they say it seems to help. Our 79 38 does not turn on a dime. You can check to see if it's a steering problem by testing with no sails, just motor. If your sails are set wrong anything is possible.
Thank you, Duane. Seems to be mostly related to the speed of the boat. With the engine on and in forward, there's always enough push to maintain steering. Sometimes I wish I could throttle it down more, like when I want to approach our slip slowly. Wind up making use of neutral and reverse. Even under power, steering in reverse is horrible. But it's a great boat just the same.

Since we really do love the boat, your comment serves as encouragement to take on the challenge of seeing if we can make some mods to improve steering and overall performance.
 
I'm just commenting here from my own sailing experience...
I have raced dinghies, catamarans and ULDB keel boats. And now sailing our Morgan 383. The Morgan is certainly no dinghy. It backs horribly in my limited experience. Though there are "hacks" to help that.
I have learned to get the boat to turn in nearly it's own length in reverse, but it will only in one direction.

You may be over sheeting the headsail from what you describe in light air. Free it up and see if it helps. Bare off a little and ease sails just a bit before tacking, or even straight line.
It's really easy to bring sails in to much in light air. Oversheeting will kill boat speed and manuverability.

Even on my Moore 24, a pure race boat, which sails like a dinghy, we sheet out and power up to tack a lot. This is a 24' ultra light that only weighs 2100Lbs.

On the Morgan in light stuff we also will let the jib back wind and bring the bow aound in a tack in light air. It just takes some coordination between skipper and crew. Keep the boat moving with forward speed at all cost
.
I think you have a great boat and would be surprised if the bottom weren't just a mess at this point. Its a boat that should keep it's momentum pretty well. Unless the bottom is anything but clean.

I don't mean to sound like a know it all, I'm still learning the our boat too.
Just some friendly suggestions.
Mitchell
 
I'm just commenting here from my own sailing experience...
I have raced dinghies, catamarans and ULDB keel boats. And now sailing our Morgan 383. The Morgan is certainly no dinghy. It backs horribly in my limited experience. Though there are "hacks" to help that.
I have learned to get the boat to turn in nearly it's own length in reverse, but it will only in one direction.

You may be over sheeting the headsail from what you describe in light air. Free it up and see if it helps. Bare off a little and ease sails just a bit before tacking, or even straight line.
It's really easy to bring sails in to much in light air. Oversheeting will kill boat speed and manuverability.

Even on my Moore 24, a pure race boat, which sails like a dinghy, we sheet out and power up to tack a lot. This is a 24' ultra light that only weighs 2100Lbs.

On the Morgan in light stuff we also will let the jib back wind and bring the bow aound in a tack in light air. It just takes some coordination between skipper and crew. Keep the boat moving with forward speed at all cost
.
I think you have a great boat and would be surprised if the bottom weren't just a mess at this point. Its a boat that should keep it's momentum pretty well. Unless the bottom is anything but clean.

I don't mean to sound like a know it all, I'm still learning the our boat too.
Just some friendly suggestions.
Mitchell
Thanks so much, Mitchell. You don't sound like a "know it all" at all. I appreciate the feedback; you obviously have a lot of experience.

We've been experimenting with how to set the sails. We just haven't gotten the hang of it yet. Last race, we kept letting the genoa out some because we were pulling in too tight at times. Would seem to pull the boat faster but we'd lose control. Is that what you're referring to when you say "oversheeting"? Sorry for the basic question. I'm new to this and having to figure out everything almost from scratch. I've sailed tiny boats on lakes every now and again, but nothing like this.

As for cleaning the bottom, I suspect you're right. I asked my co-owner if he wanted to just call in a diver but he expressed a preference for trying to get the camera in place first. I could have gone either way or with a full haul out and power wash.
 
Yes, pulling in to much will tend to stall boat speed. In basic terms and never sailing on your boat, and kowing how jib leads are laid out on deck.
I would expect that the jib is in to tight. You'll be pointing higher typically, but may hurt boat speed and some manuverability. Keep a nice free "slot" between the main and jib. How big is your headrail? %
M
 
Yes, pulling in to much will tend to stall boat speed. In basic terms and never sailing on your boat, and kowing how jib leads are laid out on deck.
I would expect that the jib is in to tight. You'll be pointing higher typically, but may hurt boat speed and some manuverability. Keep a nice free "slot" between the main and jib. How big is your headrail? %
M
We originally had 100% and there were races in light wind in which we couldn't get off the line and were scratched. So we took that down and put up our biggest, which is 130%. Since then, we've not failed to cross the line even in light winds, though we can still get off slowly in light winds. However, it's made steering more of a challenge.

I'll pass along your recommendations to my buddy who owns the boat with me. He's a far more experienced sailor. He or his friend skipper when we're out. I'm just a deck hand.
 
Thank you, Duane. Seems to be mostly related to the speed of the boat. With the engine on and in forward, there's always enough push to maintain steering. Sometimes I wish I could throttle it down more, like when I want to approach our slip slowly. Wind up making use of neutral and reverse. Even under power, steering in reverse is horrible. But it's a great boat just the same.

Since we really do love the boat, your comment serves as encouragement to take on the challenge of seeing if we can make some mods to improve steering and overall performance.
Mine used to steer into the wind when in reverse
 
Mine used to steer into the wind when in reverse
I've not noticed that but wouldn't be surprised. What I have noticed is some prop kick to port and then it goes straight back. So I can control it a bit by either opening the throttle slowly, in which case there's minimal kick, or giving it a quick rev, in which case it slides left.
 
A tip for sail trim in light air. Ease the main until a bubble forms on the luff, then trim in until the bubble goes away. Then trim the jib to approximately the same angle.

This should slowly build speed. As speed builds, slowly, only an inch at a time, trim in a bit more.

To tack, with speed up having done the above start the turn with the rudder. Not too much, maybe half way to hard over. At the same time, sheet the main as hard as you can, and the jib as hard as you can. If you have a traveller center the main on the boats centerline. This sheeting in will keep the sails filled a bit longer before you go into irons, and help the turn. Do not release the jib until the turn is nearly done. Once the bow is through the wind, the wind will back the jib and pull the boat around. Then center the rudder and release and move the jib.
It takes quite a lot of practice. Races are not won in the straight sections between marks, but how well teams tack and jibe, how quickly can they turn the boat, and can they turn without stopping it. In light air it takes a long time to build speed, so gentle turns without much rudder keep the boat moving.
NorthU publishes a good book on sail trim. It's hard to find, but if you are serious about racing or getting the most out of light wind it's a great resource.
 
A tip for sail trim in light air. Ease the main until a bubble forms on the luff, then trim in until the bubble goes away. Then trim the jib to approximately the same angle.

This should slowly build speed. As speed builds, slowly, only an inch at a time, trim in a bit more.

To tack, with speed up having done the above start the turn with the rudder. Not too much, maybe half way to hard over. At the same time, sheet the main as hard as you can, and the jib as hard as you can. If you have a traveller center the main on the boats centerline. This sheeting in will keep the sails filled a bit longer before you go into irons, and help the turn. Do not release the jib until the turn is nearly done. Once the bow is through the wind, the wind will back the jib and pull the boat around. Then center the rudder and release and move the jib.
It takes quite a lot of practice. Races are not won in the straight sections between marks, but how well teams tack and jibe, how quickly can they turn the boat, and can they turn without stopping it. In light air it takes a long time to build speed, so gentle turns without much rudder keep the boat moving.
NorthU publishes a good book on sail trim. It's hard to find, but if you are serious about racing or getting the most out of light wind it's a great resource.
Thanks so much Warren. This seems really insightful. Will try to follow your suggestions.
 
Not an experienced sailor. Learned to sail 30 years ago on a tiny boat on a small lake but it was very basic. It's a huge jump from that to a 38 foot sloop. But I live in the Pacific Northwest, right on the Puget Sound (or Salish Sea if you prefer). In Bellingham, not far from the San Juans. Can't think of a more wonderful place to own a boat if one loves idyllic settings.

My wife and I have friends who live on a sailboat. People who live and breath sailboats, own three, and work on them for a living. They've been encouraging us for years to get one and join them. Not in living on one, necessarily, but in recreating together. I've thought about it but it always seemed like a lot to take on. And then, recently, a good friend whom I really enjoy hanging out with, and with whom I've done a lot of projects -- everything from rebuilding a deck to restoring old Weber grills -- mentioned that he had found and was considering his 50+ year old Morgan. He's an experienced sailor and an excellent craftsman who can work in many media. So we test sailed it and decided to buy it together.

It's a 1971 Charley Morgan 38. Possibly the very last of the first run. I've read that there were 75 total build but then elsewhere I've seen estimates as high as 80. In any event, we have one of the last if not the very last off the line.

View attachment 8814

She's in pretty good shape. The last owner did a lot of interior work, and completely redid the plumbing and the electrical systems. Does not have the latest and greatest electronics and the hull should be painted fairly soon. Appears to be a small leak over the electrical panel that we'll need to track down. The engine was changed out in 2008 and only has 400 hours. A 42HP Vetus 4cyl cylinder diesel. The sails are older but still functional. Got it briefly up to 7 knots in relatively light wind on the test sail, though it settled in at around 6.5. But the winds that day were blowing maybe 5 knots so it surprised me how beautifully it got up to speed once I had her on her side. The engine needs to be primed to start so we'll have to fix that. But, once fired up, it seemed to run almost as fast with the sails down. Not a racing boat, to be sure, but pretty darn fast for a cruiser. The center board was sticking, the last owner said he never used it, though we did get it to come down later on, after we had made the purchase. We'll need to get that figured out, perhaps once we haul her out to repaint the hull.

I think we got a really great deal. Paid $10k. It included the dinghy and a whole bunch of gear. Basically everything that was on board and all the parts he was planning to install over time. The former owner and his wife planned to settle in with this boat through their retirement years but then plans changed. He is moving to Texas and not planning to own another boat for a while. We did not have the boat inspected. He seemed an honest fellow. Went out of his way to point out every little thing thing that needs work. Of course he could be a faker and there could be things he's not aware of but we figured at this price, with my friend's skill set, and with other friends eager to share their extensive knowledge, most likely we'll be fine.

Here's the interior.

View attachment 8815View attachment 8816

And a couple more from the outside:

View attachment 8817View attachment 8818

Please let me know if there's anything we should be particularly aware of or on the lookout for. There's of course work to be done but it's also ready to be sailed and enjoyed.

My wife is very new to this and tends to get motion sick. Hopefully she'll learn to enjoy it. Our seven year old son too, though I think he'll be an easier sell.

A few more photos for good measure.

View attachment 8819View attachment 8820View attachment 8821View attachment 8822View attachment 8823
The boat looks great, congratulations!! And welcome to the CM38 community.

⛵⚓
 
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