De-lam

[wissner]

<div>I have a '79 382 and have been seeing numerous gel coat cracks along areas where the dog house meets the deck and most notably in the area of the deck just above the shower stall(port side) and where the dog house meets the deck forward of the vee berth. I have also been hearing a lot of deck creeking when i walk across the doghouse forward of the mast. Delamination? Serious? before I dig in has anybody had these problems? Did they get into the core material? Is this a job a rookie can do or does it take an expert?Thanks Chip
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[barefoot]

Chip -- I don't know the answers to your questions. But you might take a look at the article by Jay Green in the first issue of the Newsletter. (It's on the Web site if you don't have a copy handy.) Jay had delamination problems and got excellent advice from Pete Brown, construction supervisor for the M-382/3/4 and now a surveyor specializing in Morgans. Pete's address and phone number are in the members' directory. You might check with him.

 

[tdenney]

<div>We have a 384 purchased 7 years ago. Shortly after we purchased the boat, we noticed a creaking in certain forward areas of the deck, as you have mentioned. I tracked the problem down by having my wife listen below as I walked across the deck. The problem with creaking was nothing more than the noise made by the headliner moving against the bulkheads with the very slight deflection of the deck. I eliminated this by removing headliners around the bulkheads and inserting shims (epoxied in place) on top of several bulkheads including the ones around the chart table. Regarding hairline cracks where the cabin top meets the deck, we have some in the forward area. I have watched these over the last 4 or 5 years. They do not seem to be related to any delamination and do not seem to be increasing noticeably. I believe the shims above the bulkhead, which eliminated any flexing of the deck by directly supporting it from underneath, has eliminated this problem.In closing, I might reiterate that none of the bulkheads within the boat seem to extend all the way to the underside of the deck. This seems to be an obvious way of providing additional support to loads on the deck by bridging the gap. Hope this helps.
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[bschnur]

My M-382 (#179) deck sometimes makes small "cracking" noises as I walk across it and there are several places where there is gelcoat cracking. Conventional wisdom has it that these are signs of delamination. I've removed the headliners and looked at the 6" squares of plywood which form the cabintop and other areas of the overhead and deck. I could not see any signs of moisture (dark wood) or see anything other than healthy plywood. All this is looking through a layer of resin, of course, since the plywood is fastened to the underside of the deck with resin once the deck surface has been laid up in the mold.
Since I could find no signs of rot, dry or otherwise, I assume that the wood is sound and the delam (if that's what the noise is from) is due to imperfect construction at the factory. In other words, there may be voids due to areas that never bonded, or there was insufficient resin-bonding such that the plywood pulled loose in some places, or perhaps that the resin should have had a filler to make it stronger, etc. I wonder how many 382, 383, and 384's have these same symptoms and what the real problem(s) may be.
Unless and until there are definite signs of rot due to water entry, I see no reason to worry about the creaking. Is this wishful thinking or does anyone have enough experience with Morgan's to generalize on what's going on.
Comments, anyone?

 

[budfet]

<div>I WOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT IT. I BELIEVE MOST 38'S CREAK A LITTLE ALONG THE DECK. I WOULD INSTEAD CHECKING THE BOND BETWEEN THE AMIDSHIPS BULKHEAD, MAKING SURE THIS IS GLASSED WELL.JIM
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[wgloege]

<div>As with most production boats of it's era the M38 did not have it's bulkheads bonded to the underside of the deck. My 382 made creaking noises too that I believe was the result of movement in the joinery at the top of bulkheads. I have had good luck reducing this creaking by removing the headliners and trim at the top of bulkheads and glassing the bulkhead to the deck. This has definitely added rigidity to the decks. On some of the bulkheads the 1/4" teak ply had to be cut back about 2" so the glass could be bonded to the structural plywood. New teak trim covered up the work.
Most of the deck noise is gone but I'm still getting creaking down around the floor.
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[balthazor]

I have creaking on both side decks, right at the life line openings, by the big cabin window. I fear it is some area where the glass has delaminated from the plywood--which can happen even without water entry. I am living with it right now and will ask my shipyard about it next year, when I have some money. I suspect there needs to be some resin inserted betweent the glass and the plywood. And, given the creaking, probably above the plywood and below the deck glass. I would rather it was just a creaking, but there must be something wrong to make the sound.

 

[cavale]

<div>TerrySomeone mentioned it before and we found the same result to be true. Before you look for delamination in the area of the large windows, try putting wedges between the bulkheads and the deck where the squeaks occur. You might be pleasantly surprised.Jim

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