Black water tank (383) 1982

Discussion in 'Main Morgan 38 Sailboat Forum' started by HARDIN CHANCEY, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Can anyone tell me if the black water tank that is in the keel is a drop in aluminum tank in the hull or if it's a molded glass tank ,and where the level sensor is located in the tank.thanks
     
  2. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    The holding tank is simply a void in the keel that is covered by the floor of the bilge. The volume of the tank is somewhere between 15 and 18 gallons. You'll find the sensor just below the dust bin in the forward part of the tank. It is a 1 1/4" PVC plug with two wires coming out. The original sensor didn't have much of a working life. I don't know a Morgan that still has a useful sensor. There is a company called Electrosense.com that makes an excellent tank monitor. The waste tanks on the Morgan 38s are prone to leaking if the hull has been poorly blocked up when put on the hard. Check out the archives here on the board for more info on that.

    Jim
     
  3. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    Mine was toast and had no wires coming out that's how bad it was. The one Jim is referring to is a perfect fit and once you get the old one out, it screws right in, no cutting of metal probes. It comes in two sizes so let them know your boat and they will send you the right one. Nice sensor panel that I installed in the head for convenience.
     
  4. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  5. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Thanks for that info,do you know if the suction line for discharge goes near the bottom of the tank?
     
  6. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  7. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Thanks for the info
     
  8. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    I have no idea just how close to the bottom of the tank the suction pipe is, but to work properly it needs to be fairly close.

    Jim
     
  9. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Thanks Jim, the reason I was asking years ago I use to make bilge water level alarm systems for shrimp boats in Tampa using 2inch PVC pipe and a pressure switch.
     
  10. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    My boat is still on the hard. the tank is empty to the extent that no more can be pulled from the tank from the deck fitting. If you knock on the side of the keel, it sounds like a drum. So it is close to be empty. I believe I saw a diagram somewhere that the tube end is cut at an angle and located very close to the bottom of the tank.
     
  11. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  12. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  13. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    The Groco company makes a bilge pump switch that works on the same principle as your shrimp boat devices. As the water rises, the air pressure in the tube increases which activates the pump switch to go on. I've had one of those on Dana for years. The beauty of it is that the switch is never in the water and stays high and dry. It a great system.

    Jim
     
  14. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  15. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    I wonder if I put a shut off valve in the discharge line of the ht with a t and that switch if it would pressurize that line for a high level light,
     
  16. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    I don't understand exactly what you mean?

    Jim
     
  17. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Use the discharge line to build pressure for the sw ,to stop the air from escaping out the deck outlet install a tee with a shut off valve at the tank .open the valve when discharging and close it to seal the air from going up the hose .on the tee install a fitting for a hose to go to your sw. Pressure will build up in the pipe to activate the sw.the tee will be on the tank side of the valve.maybe that's to extreme!
     
  18. rickdowe2

    rickdowe2 Richard Dowe

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    Hi Hardin, I removed my old switch, the wires were very delicate and corroded. I went to the hardware store and picked up a 1 1/4 MPT to 1 1/2 pvc and added 16 or so inches of pipe to get it out of the bilge. The switch failed when I reinstalled it. I was able to find an exact replacement on the internet. I reused some of the old switch adapters.
    I tried several tools to remove the old switch and the one that is circle worked.
     

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  19. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  20. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Thanks for the info,I just bought her three months ago and going through all the systems and making repairs and modifications hope to get her wet in February, l really like this forum, getting some good info ,I'm retired merchant marine sailed with SIU out of jax.my last vessel was 40' egg harbor twin 471s,this is my first sailboat looking forward to getting her in the water,only sailed one boat in 1971 in the merchant marine school.
     
  21. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    So as the air pressure builds in the tank discharge piping, the switch would then activate an alarm or idiot light to warn of the tank being close to full? Is that what I understand?

    Jim
     
  22. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  23. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Yes exactly and buy using the discharge line each time you pump out it would keep the line clear of debris.
     
  24. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    That sounds like it would work fine but only give you one contact point to tell you when to get pumped out. The Electrosense monitor gives you multiple points, empty, 10%, 50%, 80%, full, so you have plenty of time to plan when your next trip to the pumpout.

    Jim
     
  25. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  26. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Jim,ya your wright about the different levels l know that type of probe works good with just liquid but with the multiple probes debris hang up on them and can give you a false reading,are you using one in your black water tank if so do have to clean the probes very often?
     
  27. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    I have abandoned the holding tank in the keel and replaced it with a welded plastic 36 gallon tank under the V-bunk. The Electrosense probes are stainless steel and do not get clogged with debris. The new tank has been in use now for three years and there hasn't been any need to remove the probe for cleaning. Many other Morgan owners have installed this unit and I have yet to hear of any complaints. The fact that the control panel for the probe can be installed anywhere in the boat and accessed very quickly without much 12v power is a beautiful thing. I've posted a few photos of Dana's tank installation. One is the tank before being installed. Two is the Electrosense probe in the tank. Three is the control panel with we have installed at the chart table. Four is the tank seated in the V-bunk.

    Jim
     

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  28. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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  29. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    That looks like a better set up for sure looks like I will have to put that on my list, thanks jim.
     
  30. datswite

    datswite Ken Ferrari

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    Hardin - Take a look at this thread. It describes the original work going into the Electrosense sensor and what you need to do to get the correct unit. The correct sized unit is not an off- the-shelf size. They'll need to custom make one for you. It's probably best that you mention the blog write up I did to jog their memory.

    https://www.morgan38.org/morgan38/i...nsor-a-drop-in-replacement.14748/#post-123983
     
  31. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Jim this is Hardin about that new v berth holding tank,can you send me the name and info where to buy one thanks
     
  32. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    The name of the company is Triple M Plastics. They are in Kennebuck, Maine. They made the tank custom from a cardboard mockup that I sent to them. Our V-bunk has been converted from the original under and over design of the bunks. When we changed to a single bunk we went with the higher bunk as the level for the new double bunk. This gave us less headroom in the bunk, a larger bunk overall and much more space below the bunk for storage. So when we relocated the holding tank we had the space for the 36 gallon tank. When we had the tank made the shipping cost was going to be rather high. That was because it had to ship with a freight company. We ended up driving from Long Island, NY, to Maine to pick the tank up. As much as I liked dealing with Triple M, you might be able to find a company in Florida that will build you a tank. When I designed the tank, I made one intake fitting and two discharge fittings. The intake comes from the head. One discharge goes directly to the on deck pump-out fitting. The second discharge goes back to under the head sink where there is a pump to go directly overboard when offshore.

    Jim
     

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  33. HARDIN CHANCEY

    HARDIN CHANCEY New Member

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    Thanks jim,i have a leak coming some where in the bilge I have got to dry it out and get someone to pump the head so I can see where it's coming from, is that the only place to put a ht in the bow,or have you heard of other places,thanks
     
  34. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    If the leak you have in the bilge is definitely from the holding tank, look on the stbd side about 4 to 5" above the floor, just near the two PVC pipes that enter the tank through the floor. That seems to be the most common place for the failure of the tabbing. Many of the 382,3,4s have had the same problem. If the holding tank and the bilge are empty, pump the head to fill the tank with salt water. When the tank is full keep pumping to pressurize the tank. The area of the leak will show itself with bubbles and spray. It will most likely be a failure of the tabbing that secures the tank top/bilge floor to the hull. Many have attempted to grind and reglass the area. Many have succeeded but many have failed. It's a very difficult area to work in. I have not been successful patching my leak and have gone to a new tank. There is a lot of info on the tank location in the archives. Under the head sink, under the port berth if there isn't a water tank there.

    Jim
     
  35. pmf44

    pmf44 Member

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    It seems to suggest, in my humble opinion, that the best way to deal with this is when the tanks or systems related go to hell...convert to a composting toilet. ???
     

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