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Autopilot

bluesbyrd

bluesbyrd

Chris Langton
I am upgrading Stargazer’s navigation electronics: new radar, wind/speed/depth instruments, and autopilot.

On the autopilot ...

When I bought Stargazer ~8 years ago, she had a Raymarine ST-4000 Wheel Pilot system.

This has worked fine for me through the years, though it has occasionally been over-powered by a heavy weather-helm problem (which has also occasionally over-powered me!)

The heavy weather-helm is a sail-balance issue which I am addressing separately. (Comments on this issue welcome!)

Assuming that is solved, my question is this:

Is a wheel-pilot sufficient?

The new autopilot I am considering is the Raymarine ev-100, which is rated for sailboats with a max 16,000 lb displacement.

Morgan 382’s displace 17,500 dry, and I’m sure Stargazer “wet” and loaded with provisions is pushing 20,000 lbs.

So, specs alone would argue for a “below-deck” linear-drive auto-pilot like the Raymarine ev-200 with linear drive, which is $2K more expensive than the ev-100 wheel-pilot.

Yet I made a crossing to Hawaii on a 30,000 lb displacement 48’ Alajuela ketch with the same Raymarine st4000 wheel-pilot, which worked perfectly, in all kinds of weather and sea conditions.

So ... what say ye?

I’m currently based in San Francisco, but my plans are for coastal cruising down to Baja and eventual crossing to New Zealand.

What has been your experience with autopilots?
 
I have an old hydraulic AutoNav under the seat and it works pretty well but will get overwhelmed by rudder pressure in out of balance conditions. So will my Hydrovane. I have been on boats where that did not occur, but I think those boats were balanced well. I also had a Raymarine on another boat installed as original equipment and it too would kick off when over canvassed. However, in any case, I would follow the recommendation.
 
Chris
On Dana we used an Autohelm 4000 for about 10 years. It had a very hard time driving the boat except in calm seas. Balancing the boat properly helped little. Talking to the Raymarine people was of no help. The boat is simply too heavy for that unit. We now have a below decks Jeffa electric drive unit that handles the boat well. Except with a big sea on either quarter it steers the boat fine. The unit is driven by a Simrad computer which is user friendly.

Jim
 
I bought the last new Simrad WP32 in North America. A wheel pilot Practical Sailor liked it better that the Raymarine. A Canadian company bought all the remaining Simrad stock. It worked fine, I got pretty good adjusting the tuning elements. We crossed Lake Ontario many times using it in relatively benign conditions. It didn't like following winds and/or seas, but as we all know the Morgan doesn't excel in those either. I've been in those conditions where I wouldn't even try the WP. As was said, getting the sail trim with neutral helm was key before engaging the WP. Otherwise it would see-saw. I agree with the manufacturers that its marginal for our boats.
I concluded that if I were going off shore I would buy an oversize below decks pilot, just bite the big "boat buck bullet". Maybe use the WP as a spare? That'd give you 3 options. New Zealand's a looong way away.
 
I have used a CPT wheel pilot for 20 years. If is strong AND very quiet. It is old fashioned techNology,but it is reliable and powerful. I have carriied a spare for 15 years and never had to use it. The original just keeps doing the job. It will handle the boat in most reasonable conditions unless you are out of balance or hitby a big gust and even then it will do quite a good job getting you back on course. I cannot speak highly enough about it. I often use it for inland sailing when constant course shifts and wind shifts make using the Monitor inconvenient. On our passages we use it when the wind is too light for the Monitor to work very well. Made and sold in California. If you decide to go that route, I can send a picture of my mounting arrangement on the cockpit sole. Altho it uses a rubber belt like real old time Autopilots, it is not in the way. Of course, on our long ocean passages, the Monitor was indispensable, the most valuable single piece of equipment on the boat.
 
I very recently had this exact discussion with an engineer from Raymarine. He emphatically stated that their wheel pilot is undersized for the Morgan 38. In fact, he suggested their largest unit for us since we sail offshore. In the end, I just replaced the failed drive unit from my original and antiquated Alpha Marine System. It is a below deck pilot that worked great for 35 years. Should the brain fail, I'll replace it with a newer head unit... most any drive unit will work with the Raymarine.

I also have a Monitor that I absolutely love. Generally, if we're sailing, the Monitor is steering!
 
Terry, could you send pictures of your mounting of the CPT unit? I am leaning in that direction for the coastal cruising I will be doing.
 
Yes I will do so when I can get down to the boat. I am going away for a chunk of December, so it may be January. Sorry for the delay.
 
I just installed a Garmin Reactor 40 Mechanical Refit Kit and Garmin Class B Compact linear drive with an Edson Tiller arm into Williwaw (a M-382)

Got the CC bill and did the math today. It cost $5279 for all the parts. materials and a bit of welding and machine work. Includes: all the electronics, Linear drive, cables, a lot of SS nuts and bolts, a gallon of West System (way more than I needed) and a NavPod to keep the control unit at the helm.

Did all the work myself except some welding on the linear arm mounting platform and the connector pin for the Edson Tiller Arm.

The linear drive is almost silent! The Garmin Class B Compact comes with the Rudder position sensor and linkage built-on - but the design required me to have a special two-stage connector pin machined to connect to the Edson Tiller arm.

Thought I'd throw that out for comparison. The hydraulic linear drive is on sale all over for $500 off the $2K price so it was sort of a deal I guess.
 
Like Terry, I have used a CPT Autopilot for the past 14 years. It's been a fantastic unit. I also have a spare which I haven't used. For a wheel pilot, the drive wheel is a substantial 2 " wheel, unlike the small drive wheels on other wheel autopilots. I use mine in the Western Caribbean from Mexico to Panama and Colombia, and it has pretty reliably handled all the weather and sea conditions I have encountered over the 13 years I have been down here. AND, it is a LOT less Boat Bucks than other under deck pilot alternatives.
 
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Bill, I recommend you check your spare for proper functioning. I tried mine out and discovered it wasn’t working. I sent it in to Jeff at CPT and it turned out that some sort of grease had hardened up and was preventing it from working. He cleaned it up, put in some other kind of grease, and shipped it back. Cost just a little and now I know it works.
 
Thanks to everybody for the feedback ...

I’ve decided to back off a bit on upgrades until I have thoroughly restored Stargazer to proper shape as she is.

As some of you may remember, I had to deal with a fairly horrific situation where a relative died in a house I owned in New Mexico.

I ended up having to spend almost two full years in New Mexico to deal with that.

But I’m happy to say that it has all been resolved, and I sold the house last October for a reasonable profit.

Thus, I have some cash in my pocket to put into Stargazer.

Initially my thoughts ran to upgrades: new radar, chart-plotter, auto-pilot, wind-instruments etc.

However, I’ve been going over Stargazer with a careful, critical eye after a 2 year absence, and there are many subtle problems that would have remained minor had I been here to deal with them.

But since I was not, they have evolved into major problems.

E.g., my recent problem with the wet-exhaust-elbow corroding shut.

I believe that had I been running the engine regularly, the water flow would have kept the corrosion at bay.
But 2 years of no-flow allowed the passageway to rust shut.

My hard-won beautiful varnish work has completely deteriorated and will have to be redone from scratch...

I had a rigger check out my standing rigging and, although he found no specific fault, declared that my 20 year old rigging was “old and tired” and should be replaced before going off shore.

So - Before I do any upgrades, I’m going to restore her as she is currently equipped to good sea-worthy condition, and then sail her around the Bay *a lot* to get a good idea of what works fine as it is and what really needs upgrading.

I feel bad that I let her fall nto a bit of disrepair, but I was not the master of my situation.

However, now I am, and Stargazer gets my full attention until she is back in shape.

(She has forgiven me, by the way (!) although I have not yet forgiven myself)

What a great boat!
 
Terry, just checked my backup drive and it is also locked up. Plan to head back to the US for a short visit late February and will take it with me to send back to CPT for repair. Thanks for the "heads up."
 
bluesbyrd said:
I am upgrading Stargazer’s navigation electronics: new radar, wind/speed/depth instruments, and autopilot.

On the autopilot ...

When I bought Stargazer ~8 years ago, she had a Raymarine ST-4000 Wheel Pilot system.

This has worked fine for me through the years, though it has occasionally been over-powered by a heavy weather-helm problem (which has also occasionally over-powered me!)

The heavy weather-helm is a sail-balance issue which I am addressing separately. (Comments on this issue welcome!)

Assuming that is solved, my question is this:

Is a wheel-pilot sufficient?

The new autopilot I am considering is the Raymarine ev-100, which is rated for sailboats with a max 16,000 lb displacement.

Morgan 382’s displace 17,500 dry, and I’m sure Stargazer “wet” and loaded with provisions is pushing 20,000 lbs.

So, specs alone would argue for a “below-deck” linear-drive auto-pilot like the Raymarine ev-200 with linear drive, which is $2K more expensive than the ev-100 wheel-pilot.

Yet I made a crossing to Hawaii on a 30,000 lb displacement 48’ Alajuela ketch with the same Raymarine st4000 wheel-pilot, which worked perfectly, in all kinds of weather and sea conditions.

So ... what say ye?

I’m currently based in San Francisco, but my plans are for coastal cruising down to Baja and eventual crossing to New Zealand.

What has been your experience with autopilots?
Click to expand...
 
bluesbyrd said:
I am upgrading Stargazer’s navigation electronics: new radar, wind/speed/depth instruments, and autopilot.

On the autopilot ...

When I bought Stargazer ~8 years ago, she had a Raymarine ST-4000 Wheel Pilot system.

This has worked fine for me through the years, though it has occasionally been over-powered by a heavy weather-helm problem (which has also occasionally over-powered me!)

The heavy weather-helm is a sail-balance issue which I am addressing separately. (Comments on this issue welcome!)

Assuming that is solved, my question is this:

Is a wheel-pilot sufficient?

The new autopilot I am considering is the Raymarine ev-100, which is rated for sailboats with a max 16,000 lb displacement.

Morgan 382’s displace 17,500 dry, and I’m sure Stargazer “wet” and loaded with provisions is pushing 20,000 lbs.

So, specs alone would argue for a “below-deck” linear-drive auto-pilot like the Raymarine ev-200 with linear drive, which is $2K more expensive than the ev-100 wheel-pilot.

Yet I made a crossing to Hawaii on a 30,000 lb displacement 48’ Alajuela ketch with the same Raymarine st4000 wheel-pilot, which worked perfectly, in all kinds of weather and sea conditions.

So ... what say ye?

I’m currently based in San Francisco, but my plans are for coastal cruising down to Baja and eventual crossing to New Zealand.

What has been your experience with autopilots?
Click to expand...
I have a CPT on my pearson 390 ,a heavy blue water sea beast, and it has never failed. Belt skipped on wheel once in gale force .
 
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