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383 value?

S

scottorious

New Member
I decided to post this here as I have been on the hunt for a 382/383/384 for a while. I found a 383 for sale in Racine, Wisconsin that looks to be in good shape save a couple items. My first bought was bought directly from the owner but now I'm dealing with brokers. Of course they say everything is in "great shape" and it's "turnkey" when it just really isn't. The boat is listed at 45K. The big problems I saw and the unknowns are as follows. The "great shape" dodger and bimini are in fact on their last leg as it seems. zipper are pulling out and stitching is coming apart all over both items. The headsail was taken down so it's an unknown and mainsail was on the boom under cover. It seems like they expect that I'll put an offer on the boat without seeing the sails and before survey. Is this normal procedure? The port side of the rudder is bulged and cracked open all over the whole side. We're all guilty of thinking our stuff is worth more than it really is but is 45K a decent asking price? The broker suggested I go in with an offer of 41K and that's when I decided that I needed to rethink my plan. If I'm supposed to make an offer before a survey it would seem that you wouldn't offer much over 28K considering the issues I mentioned. Am I way off?
 
Hi there, and welcome to the forum ...
From my experiences, I made an offer before the survey, then after the survey re-negotiated some details. Since buyer usually pays for the survey it's best to be sure you're in the ballpark on price before forking over $$ for a surveyor, in my opinion.
Sails & new canvas (dodger & bimini) could easily cost $10-12k if you have them done by good shops.
I'd start by taking that off of their asking price.
Are there any other 'big ticket' items that obviously need work?

I'd be sure to get a good reputable surveyor too. I was disappointed in my last surveyor: he didn't look at sails, didn't start the engine, didn't go up the mast, didn't do a single thing with the electronics.

There are lots of experienced folks on this forum so some others will be chipping in, for sure.

Good Luck!

It's good to pay attention to details, but don't get discouraged!
-Mark
 
Thanks! My first boat is a Cal 34 which I probably made some big mistakes when buying it but it was comparatively cheap and I think the mistakes were cheap lessons in boat buying for what is hopefully round 2.

The other big ticket item that I see with some issues is the rudder. Great lakes boats seem to have horrendous rudders from my experience. They all soak up water and then freeze/thaw all winter. After replacing the rudder on my Cal I am leary about listening to the broker saying "all boats have water in their rudder and aren't an issue". a 35 year old rudder is on the verge of needing replaced. Based on the visual bulge and cracks I saw in the rudder(the boat is on the hard). My Cal 34 rudder was 2k, anyone have any ballpark range on a 383 rudder?
 
Foss foam in Florida I think sells new replacement rudders for the Morgan.
These days everyone seems to leave out the expense of sails. Our sails are not the usual sails...alone they were close to $15K for a headsail and main. You can get 2 good cruising sails for around $8-10K but don’t expect that off the price. It’s a bit of a bargaining chip if the sails are completely shot.
The rudder is about $2K if I remember right plus shipping. A fresh water boat up north (if that is where it spent most of its life) is often way better if cared for...no salt! Stored every winter chops 6 months off. A 30 year old boat becomes a 15 year old boat. Our boat was stored in a barn every winter for 26 years then spent the last years up on Lake Champlain ...fresh water...if you compare you will see (according to a broker friend) Morgan’s selling on average $35-45K sometimes more depending on so many other factors...new electronics and equipment...newer engines, new awl grip, lots of things.
 
Thanks for your input. I do like the condition I see a lot of freshwater boats but I think it's also a downfall. I think a lot of things are let slide and they aren't really upgraded because they just don't see much use. The boat I'm looking at has minimal ground tackle since it barely leaves the dock and when it does there aren't many places to anchor. That also usually means that boats aren't "modified" too much though. They are just glorified day sailing boats. The engine is the original Perkins and has 1300 hours. My experience would say that isn't many hours but I'm not sure. All in all I think it's a boat worth trying for I'm just trying to make sure I don't go overboard. It's fairly common and they seem to show up at a rate of 3 or 4 each year on the great lakes so I'm not in a huge rush.
 
Scottorious, my boat is just up the bay from Oconto in Escanaba. I bought her three Octobers ago down on Lake St. Clair. The boat did have updated electronics and a new refrigeration, but I had to buy new main and headsail as well as have bimini and dodger zippers replaced. I started with what I thought was a fair value and subtracted the cost of the new sails and a few other items plus a few thousand more to negotiate. A good broker knows what the boat is worth and what work needs to be done and will not be insulted with a reasonable/fair offer. Most sellers have unrealistic expectations of what their boat is worth unless it has been meticulously maintain.
 
A fellow Bay sailor! I love the bay! I just wish we had a longer season! Thanks for your input! I'm studying all the boats I see online and trying to work out a reasonable offer or at least an explanation for what might be interpreted as a low ball offer. Rudder, dodger/bimini and sails seem like a solid start. I guess standing rigging in the great lakes area could be original and still be like new from what I've seen. Anyone think otherwise?
 
Don't see any reason the standing rigging shouldn't be o.k. if it has been maintained. Have you run a moisture meter over the side decks in the mid-ship area?
 
Having bought and sold a few boats over the last several years (too many if you ask my wife), my position on selling is that the price reflects current condition. But maybe with a bit of extra knowing offers will be lower and hopefully there is a buyer willing and wanting enough to pay a bit of a premium. On buying I shoot for around 80% of asking assuming the boat condition is as advertised.

That said, a key factor with our Morgans is they are a lot of boat for the money. And a lot less than comparably performing and quality and size and age boats by other manufacturers. They are a good value for the usual price range you are likely to be looking at.

Surveys have a cost for sure. Perhaps can be considered insurance against a bad deal/boat, leverage for additional price changes from agreed offer, and a punch list of projects, improvements and potential weaknesses upon ownership. I know some folks, friends included, who have missed season(s) while they shop for the perfect boat at the perfect price...

Good luck to you in your boat search. You cant go wrong with a Morgan.
 
I would never buy a sailboat with out a first class survey and haul out at the same time that thousand dollars will be well spent if it's a wolf in sheeps clothing ,.
Get a rigger same day to climb the spar
Than back in the water if all is good and gogor a ride and sail !
It's just the ways it's done
The surveyer tells what's wrong and price to fix and fair market value of that boat !
If your not going to spend the thousand than don't buy a boat . Cause fix up is a flood of thousand dollar bills you can't stop
All the luck. Lee
 
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