Below Deck Autopilots
- Thread starter Victor Copelan
- Start date
<div>I was very frustrated with CPT, had it serviced, but it was very unreliable.
I installed AP24 with HLD350 split unit last year.The pump is under the starboard cockpit, close to aft bulkhead, on the shelf, that is glassed to the hull.
Install and commissioning done myself, no problems. The instructions are super clear and precise. Compass is inside the salon table leg, about 2 feet aft of the mast.
For parts, I went to Star Marine Depot, they had the best price. I also added an extra rudder shaft support, a self align pillow bearing attached to fiberglass angle (both from McMaster). It is 700lb of trust and quite far from the rudder stuffing box bearing. I fabricated the arm, and all required brackets. Total cost, was about 4.5k. Quite a lot of work both mechanical, electrical and simnet network routing. Go to Simrad website and download and study the literature.
View attachment HLD350-INSTALL-19607.zip
HLD350-INSTALL.zip
</div>
I installed AP24 with HLD350 split unit last year.The pump is under the starboard cockpit, close to aft bulkhead, on the shelf, that is glassed to the hull.
Install and commissioning done myself, no problems. The instructions are super clear and precise. Compass is inside the salon table leg, about 2 feet aft of the mast.
For parts, I went to Star Marine Depot, they had the best price. I also added an extra rudder shaft support, a self align pillow bearing attached to fiberglass angle (both from McMaster). It is 700lb of trust and quite far from the rudder stuffing box bearing. I fabricated the arm, and all required brackets. Total cost, was about 4.5k. Quite a lot of work both mechanical, electrical and simnet network routing. Go to Simrad website and download and study the literature.
View attachment HLD350-INSTALL-19607.zip
HLD350-INSTALL.zip
</div>
Alan & Cheryl
Simrad specks for HLD350 is 10 tons displacement.
Here is some more info on AP24.from
http://www.starmarinedepot.com
I have AP2401 system that includes:
-AP12 computer
-RF300 rudder feedback
-RC42 compass
-AP24 Autopilot
-simnet cables, multijoiner
-simnet power cable with terminator(this was $1.92k)
add to it Hld350MK2s (split $1.59k)
10m simnet cable to connect autopilot at the wheel to the multijoiner ( mine is under L forward of sink, $45)
I used about 50 feet of 10avg duplex marine cable.
If you have non Simrad instruments, you going to need AP10($100) and,or AP15 Nmea converters to connect them to Simnet network.I have Furuno GPS and needed AP10 converter.
Simrad specks for HLD350 is 10 tons displacement.
Here is some more info on AP24.from
http://www.starmarinedepot.com
I have AP2401 system that includes:
-AP12 computer
-RF300 rudder feedback
-RC42 compass
-AP24 Autopilot
-simnet cables, multijoiner
-simnet power cable with terminator(this was $1.92k)
add to it Hld350MK2s (split $1.59k)
10m simnet cable to connect autopilot at the wheel to the multijoiner ( mine is under L forward of sink, $45)
I used about 50 feet of 10avg duplex marine cable.
If you have non Simrad instruments, you going to need AP10($100) and,or AP15 Nmea converters to connect them to Simnet network.I have Furuno GPS and needed AP10 converter.
FYI I called Simrad about the listed displacement on the HLD350MK2.....the tech was familiar with the 382 (used to have one) and said the unit would work fine....it would not be overworked.
This is supported by several of us who have installed this unit and are pleased with its performance.
I bought my system from Defender...as usual they were the cheapest (at lease true in 2012)..item #259559 (compass, AC12 computer, rudder sensor and various cables and connectors) plus item 257489 (drive arm) and 256839 (control and display). You may need to buy more cables and connectors (joiners in Simnet speak), depending on where you install the parts. I do not have other Simrad instruments and did not want to connect autopilot to my Garmin GPS so did not have to be concerned about interconnections except for my Nexus anenometer. I bought the cable to connect it to autopilot so it could steer by the wind but have not done it yet. If you have Simrad instruments/GPS should be pretty straight forward to put them in daisy chain per the installation manual.
My only complaint is that the installation manual could be more user friendly if you aren't already familiar with Simnet speak and how to daisy chain using various joiners and cables to create a beginning and a termination.
I also bought a bronze tiller arm from Edson to attach arm to the rudder post. (I can post the part number later since have to find it.) I thought this was a good idea for strength (Simrad recommends against attaching arm directly to the quadrant) and can also steer boat if the quadrant cables fail which happened to me in middle of Pamlico Sound (before I had the autopilot). Using the emergency tiller was very very difficult and not something I want to do again!
Will be happy to answer any questions.
Melinda
This is supported by several of us who have installed this unit and are pleased with its performance.
I bought my system from Defender...as usual they were the cheapest (at lease true in 2012)..item #259559 (compass, AC12 computer, rudder sensor and various cables and connectors) plus item 257489 (drive arm) and 256839 (control and display). You may need to buy more cables and connectors (joiners in Simnet speak), depending on where you install the parts. I do not have other Simrad instruments and did not want to connect autopilot to my Garmin GPS so did not have to be concerned about interconnections except for my Nexus anenometer. I bought the cable to connect it to autopilot so it could steer by the wind but have not done it yet. If you have Simrad instruments/GPS should be pretty straight forward to put them in daisy chain per the installation manual.
My only complaint is that the installation manual could be more user friendly if you aren't already familiar with Simnet speak and how to daisy chain using various joiners and cables to create a beginning and a termination.
I also bought a bronze tiller arm from Edson to attach arm to the rudder post. (I can post the part number later since have to find it.) I thought this was a good idea for strength (Simrad recommends against attaching arm directly to the quadrant) and can also steer boat if the quadrant cables fail which happened to me in middle of Pamlico Sound (before I had the autopilot). Using the emergency tiller was very very difficult and not something I want to do again!
Will be happy to answer any questions.
Melinda
maluhia
Jim Ball
maluhia
Jim Ball
Jim,
Found it on Simrad web site....seems they have dropped the "MK2" part of name:
HLD350 Drive Unit
Part # 21113303 ...same as my Simrad part number.
One of you asked me for the tiller arm info.....bronze tiller arm from Edson:
926BR-10-610
Edson originally made a mistake and sent me the aluminum version....they wanted me to keep it but I said no, returned it on their dime and they shipped me the correct one. There is a form you have to fill out (get on Edson web page) with boat type, rudder post bore size (mine was 1.75" diam), and whether you want key, through-bolt (mine needed 3/8") or set screws (I chose through bolt for the tiller arm to use that hole passing through rudder post).
Also one more piece of info....I had asked Simrad about the 10,000 lbs displacement spec because elsewhere I had seen 22,000 lbs displacement.....their written response said that the correct specs are 10,000 kgs or 22,000 lbs.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Melinda
Found it on Simrad web site....seems they have dropped the "MK2" part of name:
HLD350 Drive Unit
Part # 21113303 ...same as my Simrad part number.
One of you asked me for the tiller arm info.....bronze tiller arm from Edson:
926BR-10-610
Edson originally made a mistake and sent me the aluminum version....they wanted me to keep it but I said no, returned it on their dime and they shipped me the correct one. There is a form you have to fill out (get on Edson web page) with boat type, rudder post bore size (mine was 1.75" diam), and whether you want key, through-bolt (mine needed 3/8") or set screws (I chose through bolt for the tiller arm to use that hole passing through rudder post).
Also one more piece of info....I had asked Simrad about the 10,000 lbs displacement spec because elsewhere I had seen 22,000 lbs displacement.....their written response said that the correct specs are 10,000 kgs or 22,000 lbs.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Melinda
williwaw
Tom Kluberton
I have been looking into the Comnav P2 Autopilot with their NX3 Solid State Rate compass that's got a gyro built in (it'll react to less than a degree of course change which has some appeal).
A couple questions come to mind:
1) Has anyone installed or considered a Comnav setup in a M-38 and care to comment?
2) Comnav uses the Octopus Linear Drives and recommended a 12" stroke pump that has an installation envelope of 1138mm (44.8").
Compared to the Simrad HLD350 Part#21113303 w/200mm stroke with an installation of 807mm (32") the 12" Octopus seems too long to fit in the M-38.
Can anyone with the Simrad HLD350 installed comment on how much room to spare there is behind the drive with the rod extended fully to the rear?
Thanks for any help!
Tom Kluberton,
Williwaw
A couple questions come to mind:
1) Has anyone installed or considered a Comnav setup in a M-38 and care to comment?
2) Comnav uses the Octopus Linear Drives and recommended a 12" stroke pump that has an installation envelope of 1138mm (44.8").
Compared to the Simrad HLD350 Part#21113303 w/200mm stroke with an installation of 807mm (32") the 12" Octopus seems too long to fit in the M-38.
Can anyone with the Simrad HLD350 installed comment on how much room to spare there is behind the drive with the rod extended fully to the rear?
Thanks for any help!
Tom Kluberton,
Williwaw
Tom -
The Simrad HLD350 I installed is relatively compact. The installer had to add an aluminum piece of angle iron, with four carriage bolts. Facing forward at the helm, the carriage bolts will be just behind your right heel right where the deck slopes up. On the inside of the quadrant lazarette, the installer had to cut out a piece of the wood used to hold up the plywood used to cover the quadrant. I have been able to do some work in that space - I recently replaced the old bilge hose, re-wired the stern light, and removed the original blower and re-located it to a different location, with an in-line blower. All done while working around, next to, and on top of the HLD350. The HLD 350 pump unit's throw of the arm is not much. The rod that extends out the back isn't a problem.
The Simrad HLD350 I installed is relatively compact. The installer had to add an aluminum piece of angle iron, with four carriage bolts. Facing forward at the helm, the carriage bolts will be just behind your right heel right where the deck slopes up. On the inside of the quadrant lazarette, the installer had to cut out a piece of the wood used to hold up the plywood used to cover the quadrant. I have been able to do some work in that space - I recently replaced the old bilge hose, re-wired the stern light, and removed the original blower and re-located it to a different location, with an in-line blower. All done while working around, next to, and on top of the HLD350. The HLD 350 pump unit's throw of the arm is not much. The rod that extends out the back isn't a problem.
williwaw
Tom Kluberton
Thanks to Matt for more good information!
There are some great photos on the Board showing HLD350 installations. But, I haven't seen one yet that shows how close the thru-rod comes to the hull when moved all the way over to port.
Guess my question wasn't really clear - I'm wondering if that thru-rod were to be another 4" or 6" longer, would it try to poke through the hull when extended fully to port?
Thx ~
Tom Kluberton
Williwaw
There are some great photos on the Board showing HLD350 installations. But, I haven't seen one yet that shows how close the thru-rod comes to the hull when moved all the way over to port.
Guess my question wasn't really clear - I'm wondering if that thru-rod were to be another 4" or 6" longer, would it try to poke through the hull when extended fully to port?
Thx ~
Tom Kluberton
Williwaw
maluhia
Jim Ball
Wouldn't it depend on where you mounted the drive end, either on a bulkhead or hull attachment? Here is an installation using a Raymarine:
http://www.sailingseadragon.com/AutoPilot.htm
http://www.sailingseadragon.com/AutoPilot.htm
Tom -
I would suspect that the thru-rod would try to poke a hole in the hull if it were another 4" to 6" longer - but it's not longer, so I'm not sure what the concern is. The total "throw" of the rod on my boat is a little more than 8 inches, according to the instruction manual.
By the way, the mechanic who installed my HLD350 put it on the starboard side, and the bronze tiller arm was installed facing forward. This was a huge plus over putting it on the port side, with the arm facing backwards, for a couple of reasons:
1) It was out of the way of the other components on the port side, including the emergency bilge pump and the exhaust through-hull. I just upgraded from an old Perkins to a new Yanmar, which prompted a change in the exhaust port from 3" to 4". An HLD350 in that space would have had a problem fitting!
2) installing the bronze tiller arm facing forwards means the HLD350 had to be installed on the cockpit bulkhead behind the helmsman, not the interior bulkhead separating the steering compartment from the aft-most lazarette. Two good things about this - the installation was easier, and it resulted in a little more room for the throw rod when my wheel is full to STARBOARD, putting it away from the hull (at that location, the hull is expanding as you move forward).
I'll try to get pics next time I'm aboard.
Regards -
Matt
I would suspect that the thru-rod would try to poke a hole in the hull if it were another 4" to 6" longer - but it's not longer, so I'm not sure what the concern is. The total "throw" of the rod on my boat is a little more than 8 inches, according to the instruction manual.
By the way, the mechanic who installed my HLD350 put it on the starboard side, and the bronze tiller arm was installed facing forward. This was a huge plus over putting it on the port side, with the arm facing backwards, for a couple of reasons:
1) It was out of the way of the other components on the port side, including the emergency bilge pump and the exhaust through-hull. I just upgraded from an old Perkins to a new Yanmar, which prompted a change in the exhaust port from 3" to 4". An HLD350 in that space would have had a problem fitting!
2) installing the bronze tiller arm facing forwards means the HLD350 had to be installed on the cockpit bulkhead behind the helmsman, not the interior bulkhead separating the steering compartment from the aft-most lazarette. Two good things about this - the installation was easier, and it resulted in a little more room for the throw rod when my wheel is full to STARBOARD, putting it away from the hull (at that location, the hull is expanding as you move forward).
I'll try to get pics next time I'm aboard.
Regards -
Matt
williwaw
Tom Kluberton
Part of my problem is that I'm in Alaska for the summer and the Williwaw is 5200 miles away in Florida, so I am at a disadvantage to figure out what will fit and what won't.
I have been attracted to the Comnav NX3 rate compass which they say has a built-in gyro that mitigates some of the effects of pitch and yaw on the autopilot.
An issue is that the Linear drive Comnav is recommending is a good bit longer than what I've been reading about the Simrad HLD350. Thus, the clearance question.
I'm eager to see the photos of a linear drive mounted on the starboard - that's new. I still have the Perkins so it may not work.
Thanks for the new information! Tom
I have been attracted to the Comnav NX3 rate compass which they say has a built-in gyro that mitigates some of the effects of pitch and yaw on the autopilot.
An issue is that the Linear drive Comnav is recommending is a good bit longer than what I've been reading about the Simrad HLD350. Thus, the clearance question.
I'm eager to see the photos of a linear drive mounted on the starboard - that's new. I still have the Perkins so it may not work.
Thanks for the new information! Tom
I have a 384 with a Comnav below deck auto pilot that works very well. I would recommend one.
The drive to this setup is mounted on the starboard side and is a Simrad. I originally installed a complete Simrad auto pilot but after a couple of years of problems I had it removed while under warranty. I kept the Simrad drive for no other reason then it was already installed and all I had to do was run wires and install the ComNav computer, compass and rudder feedback device.
i do not know how the Simrad drive compares in size to the ComNav drive but the Simrad is capable of moving the rudder through its range.
If you would like more specific information on this setup let me know.
The drive to this setup is mounted on the starboard side and is a Simrad. I originally installed a complete Simrad auto pilot but after a couple of years of problems I had it removed while under warranty. I kept the Simrad drive for no other reason then it was already installed and all I had to do was run wires and install the ComNav computer, compass and rudder feedback device.
i do not know how the Simrad drive compares in size to the ComNav drive but the Simrad is capable of moving the rudder through its range.
If you would like more specific information on this setup let me know.
williwaw
Tom Kluberton
Thanks George & Melinda,
Photos (especially any that might show the back end of the HLD350 linear drive) might help me figure out if the 12" Octopus drive the Comnav folks suggest could fit in that part of the Morgan. The HLD350 has 8" of movement compared to the 12" Octopus Comnav suggests and I have my doubts about the longer Octopus fitting.
It's heartening to hear that George has Comnav gear operating with a Simrad pump - that may be a cure. Obviously, the HLD350's fit nicely.
I'm still attracted to the Comnav NX3 Solid State Rate Compass with what they call a "three-axis rate gyro" supposed to help mitigate the effects of pitch and yaw. When I spoke to Simrad about their product line, they told me anything they have that has a gyro in it prices start at five figures.
I was stymied after that. Thanks for offering some help.
Tom
Photos (especially any that might show the back end of the HLD350 linear drive) might help me figure out if the 12" Octopus drive the Comnav folks suggest could fit in that part of the Morgan. The HLD350 has 8" of movement compared to the 12" Octopus Comnav suggests and I have my doubts about the longer Octopus fitting.
It's heartening to hear that George has Comnav gear operating with a Simrad pump - that may be a cure. Obviously, the HLD350's fit nicely.
I'm still attracted to the Comnav NX3 Solid State Rate Compass with what they call a "three-axis rate gyro" supposed to help mitigate the effects of pitch and yaw. When I spoke to Simrad about their product line, they told me anything they have that has a gyro in it prices start at five figures.
I was stymied after that. Thanks for offering some help.
Tom
Pics of HLD350 attached. first pic:
pic 1
overview showing drive unit on left and rudder position sensor on right. Plastic box made to protect the drive unit from ropes etc stored in locker. Difficult to see but the yard built a fiberglass platform bonded to hull to mount the drive unit. They also raised the height of the box containing the quadrant and then made 2 new boards to cover the quadrant, tiller drive arm and autopilot drive arm. I lost some storage but tradeoff is incredibly worth it!
Pic 2
pic 2
shows rudder ~ centered. Chafe piece is ~14" long for comparison.
Pic 3
pic 3
helm turned hard over, drive arm and rod to rudder sensor fully extended.
Pic 4
pic 4
rudder position indicator at full extension.
Hope these help.
pic 1
overview showing drive unit on left and rudder position sensor on right. Plastic box made to protect the drive unit from ropes etc stored in locker. Difficult to see but the yard built a fiberglass platform bonded to hull to mount the drive unit. They also raised the height of the box containing the quadrant and then made 2 new boards to cover the quadrant, tiller drive arm and autopilot drive arm. I lost some storage but tradeoff is incredibly worth it!
Pic 2
pic 2
shows rudder ~ centered. Chafe piece is ~14" long for comparison.
Pic 3
pic 3
helm turned hard over, drive arm and rod to rudder sensor fully extended.
Pic 4
pic 4
rudder position indicator at full extension.
Hope these help.
