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Eliana was weighed today.

Dry and empty. No sails, but with all rigging, cushions etc. 15,720. 382. It has been re powered with a Volvo engine, which I think is about the same weight as the Perkins.
 
Warren
I'm surprised that the number came in under the 17,000 lbs found on the boats spec sheet. Usually that number is optimistically low. Will the number you've been given help or hurt your rating for racing?

How did the weight get measured? Some years ago Dana was hauled in a yard whose travelift could measure the strain on each cable and relate it to weight. Multiply by four and they had the boats total weight. It was done in the spring when the boat was launched with everything on board. Fuel, water, sails, cruising gear, food, the works. The stated weight was almost 21,000lbs. I think I had too much toilet paper on board.

Jim
 
I am surprised too. Compared to my reported 18.5 displacement Pearson 38 my 382 feels like a much heavier boat. I can't say I am savvy enough to distinguish weight vs displacement though.
 
The travelift lifted a scale, and the scale lifted Eliana. This was at an organized event weighing boats for the Pacific Cup, so it is likely pretty accurate. I am told this will probably not have any effect on my PHRF, as that number is derived from empirical data on how the boat performs while racing. It will be used to adjust my downwind rating, which since the Pacific Cup is downwind is used for that race. I've heard 2 opinions on weight vs. performance. One is that a heavy boat is slower. The other is that a boat with a longer waterline is faster. Unloading the gear from my boat lowered the waterline by 3-4 inches, which they also measured but I don't have that number yet. I have/had a lot of stuff on board. So I am hoping that is favorable for my rating, that my waterline while racing will be somewhat longer than what was measured.

As for the number being low, I am a bit surprised, but my boat is pretty basic. No refrigeration, no solar, no huge battery banks, no dodger, no windless. And maybe Morgan got cheap and used less layup than the original plans. Assuming the 17,000 lbs was a typical sail away number, it is reasonable that I could be under, but 1300 lbs is a bit of a surprise.
 
I can't believe that weight is accurate either. I web checked published weights of similar sized sailboats. 40 years of production boat manufacturing progress maybe can build a 15K# 38 footer (Bene-Oceanis 38). But old school layup techniques? On the other hand my disbelief is based on the 18K# weight published by Morgan. If that's false so are all my assumptions. An ex-Navy friend said "this boat feels like a ship. It doesn't lean when boarding".
Warren, Any chance that the weighing process was flawed? Is it known to be accurate?
 
Of course there is a chance it wasn't accurate. There is always that chance. But, this was a licensed US Sailing measurer, at an event created for weighing boats in the Pacific Cup. Serious racing teams with million dollar budgets are relying on it. I have to trust that over published weights, or unofficial weighings by random yards, etc.

The Beneteau Oceanis is still over 1500lbs lighter than Eliana weighed in at, and it is a bigger boat, beamier and that beam follows all the way aft. The Morgan published weight was 17000 lbs btw. If that was a sailaway weight, with sails, fuel etc., then it would make my weight closer to the published weight. Eliana is still lighter than that, but not by thousands of pounds.
 
No ...we weigh in at about 16,000lbs as well when dry. All those cans of beer and bottled drinks you guys keep on the vessel adds to the weight along with all the other crap...I mean important stuff for cruising. Ha ha...only joking. Our boat isn’t our motor home on the water. We keep her light. It’s easy to add weight real quick. I’ve found published numbers of weight to be all over the place 16k to 18k! That PHRF rating would never stand up anywhere but in open ocean. Not in light air or even moderate air. It really should be around 190. Tough to make that up with other boats rated at 150.
Now I’ll sit back and listen to the throngs and arrows hurled my way. ;)
Don’t ask how I really feel either...LOL!
 
John

No throngs (?) and arrows being hurled. I might not prescribe to a racers view of "Stuff" on the boat but I understand the dynamics of it. When once invited to crew on a 32' Swedeboat in a race out of Westbrook, CT on Eastern Long Island Sound, I brought a case of St Pauli Girl beer down to the marina. The owner opened the case, removed 5 bottles, one for each crew and himself, then left the rest on the dock. He then suggested we drink the beer before the race began. The wind that day was very light and the current was almost 3kts flooding into the Sound. At one point we were going -1kt over the bottom. We could have used the rest of that case. When we got back to the dock, the case was gone!!!

Jim
 
Warren, one would think your weigh-in method was as accurate as can be expected. As opposed to say Jim's on a travel lift that may haven't been calibrated for years. And yes, an Oceanis doesn't look much like a cruising boat does it? What no dodger? 40 gal's of water?
I guess sailboat weight has more to do with where you look: from this site an M-38 brochure at 18K and off the Bene website at 15,100#'s.
I've read that its typical for boat weight to grow, not only from production realities but from optimistic design specs of light weight.
An old Ted Hood tale says that Hood came down to the dock on race day to find his crew removing cruising gear, cushions and the like from his boat. He admonished them to put it all back on for more waterline. Must have been dinghy sailers or some such thing. Good luck with the race.

upload_2018-2-12_20-52-28.png upload_2018-2-12_21-10-20.png
 
The layup of the Morgan in less vulnerable places is quite thin. For instance, below the turn of the bilge where my engine cooling thru hull is located is only 5/16”. The layup in the front of the Fin holding the lead is also quite thin. Before I went off shore, I added four layers of glass to the fin to give the keel a little more protection. But, in any case, the SA/D ratio gets better as weight drops. Good luck on the pac cup.
 
I'm not sure what constitutes an "official" weight. The 15,720 mine weighed at is probably as official as it gets, as that was a US Sailing certified measurer at a measuring event for the Pacific Cup. I did finally get my "certified PHRF" No change in the rating. I was told as much earlier that it wouldn't likely change, as the PHRF rating is empirical based on past performance, not based on measurements or calculations.
 
Warren Holybee said:
I'm not sure what constitutes an "official" weight. The 15,720 mine weighed at is probably as official as it gets, as that was a US Sailing certified measurer at a measuring event for the Pacific Cup. I did finally get my "certified PHRF" No change in the rating. I was told as much earlier that it wouldn't likely change, as the PHRF rating is empirical based on past performance, not based on measurements or calculations.
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I’m thinking Dave A must be correct. Maybe there were some great variants in the layup on the boats. I’ve had ours weighed on 3 different lifts, even though they often are not precise, the dry boat weight was closer to 17,800-18,000lbs on all three lifts. We had a bad weigh at around 16,000...turns out after subsequent weighs it was wrong.
 
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It’s hot here in New England. The PAC Cup “Pacific Cup” is entirely a different race than the TransPac. Got it mixed up. Watching the website start is July 9th...hope they do some video of the start.
 
I recall reading that it was for a correctly trimmed sail, so I assume that is for whatever track is best for the windspeed and angle, and maybe even a barber hauler. I don't think the model knows where the track is. Reef is given as a decimal between 0 and 1, 1 being 100% of the sail. Trim (flatness) is also given as a number between 0 and 1, with 1 being "fully powered up. If find that in the conditions usually present in SF I get better VMG sailing lower and on the outside track. I can sail to 27 degrees apparent on the outside track with my 130%. On the inside track it "points" higher, but has too much leeway to make any VMG. I just go sideways.

My start is at 11am, with only 3 other boats. It is me, 2 cal 40's, and an express 27. Somehow, the express 27 rates only slightly faster (dw 632) than the Morgan 382 (dw 655), even though it can make 20kts of boat speed downwind. Doesn't make any sense at all.

The Morgan is the slowest rated boat in all of the scored divisions.
 
Warren Holybee said:
I recall reading that it was for a correctly trimmed sail, so I assume that is for whatever track is best for the windspeed and angle, and maybe even a barber hauler. I don't think the model knows where the track is. Reef is given as a decimal between 0 and 1, 1 being 100% of the sail. Trim (flatness) is also given as a number between 0 and 1, with 1 being "fully powered up. If find that in the conditions usually present in SF I get better VMG sailing lower and on the outside track. I can sail to 27 degrees apparent on the outside track with my 130%. On the inside track it "points" higher, but has too much leeway to make any VMG. I just go sideways.

My start is at 11am, with only 3 other boats. It is me, 2 cal 40's, and an express 27. Somehow, the express 27 rates only slightly faster (dw 632) than the Morgan 382 (dw 655), even though it can make 20kts of boat speed downwind. Doesn't make any sense at all.

The Morgan is the slowest rated boat in all of the scored divisions.
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Thanks Warren
I saw that entry list...70 boats! Not bad... You are in the first 4 leaving...oh boy fun!
We were using our inside tracks for beating. We were experimenting with sail trim the other day (we practice when not racing) with inside and outside tracks to check pointing angles, leeway, holding course, VMG. With the keel we have I think you are right that we actually had less leeway and better speed...the boat had the inside track as an option so I don’t know if those Polars are for them or not. I do know we can hit the Polars easier on the outside tracks. As far as angles 30-35 degrees apparent on outside tracks. Nothing under 29-30 on inside tracks. When we track a course to wind it’s rare to ever get a perfect 45 degrees “L” shaped tack at first. Usually tacking through 100 degrees or so at least then “shifting gears” to about 30-35 to keep speed on and leeway to a minimum. Your race will be interesting. I hope they have trackers so we can follow you Warren. We aren’t even in the race with you and getting those preface “butterflies” ..have a great time! Watch that weather...I’m sure the RC will let you know...
 
Warren
Best of luck with the race. Have lots of fun and be safe. We'll be following your progress. Hope you have a good stock of Oreo cookies on board. They have always been a staple with my crews.

Jim
 
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