Any one with the pin to pin measurement for 382?

Discussion in 'Main Morgan 38 Sailboat Forum' started by john Gonzalez, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    All, I finally had my 382 taken off the stands and delivered to the yard for launch. This happened Thursday but I had a slight complication. Out of the 6 thru hulls that I installed when I replaced my seacocks, one had a sight leak. slight however is obviously too much. So the yard will rebed the seacock and the thru hull fitting and then we'll try again. I am not bothered that this slight turn of events. I believe this will be an easy fix as the thruhull and seacock are new and not frozen or corroded in.

    However, I am replacing the standing rigging. I had a rigger tell me that replacing my shrouds (head stay and back stay are new) that I should step the mast first and then send him aloft for pin to pin measurements while the rig is under tension for the measurement. That was the plan for some time. I might add that riggers are few and far between in this neck of the woods. So that was still the plan at the time of my failed launch this past week,. However I consulted a another rigger who was puzzled by that advice and recommended instead that I send one set of my original upper and the two lowers on one side and send them to a rigging shop to make two sets (port and stbrd should the the same lengths). They should know how to take into account stretch that the rigging will have when tuned and they will make the accommodation with new turnbuckles. So I have boxed them up and sent them West Marine who should have them this week in the Kemah Tx shop. They agree that this is the usual way that they replace rigging. I am still interested however, if any one has the pin to pin measurements for the rigging for the 382. I would like give that information to Kemah anyway.

    By the way, my boat has been on the hard since I have owned it for 4 years and I am more than ready, as you might expect to have it in the water. Should anyone have taken these measurements, I would appreciate having that. Thanks!
     
  2. struell

    struell Stephen Ruell

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    I think your second rigger is right. The first rigger would get a good measurement but it seems like a lot of time spent futzing around and then would have to wait for the new shrouds to be made. Measuring the old shrouds should be a quicker measurement and they could be made up and ready for you at launch.

    We have slowly replaced all the shrouds in a long, pair at a time, process, started by the previous owner. We didn't measure any of them, just sent the old ones in during the winter seasons when the mast is down. The turnbuckles have quite a bit of range to make up for the small adjustment needed. I am not sure if a measurement from another boat would be any more useful or accurate and could get you in trouble. You couldn't trust it being the same.

    Our shrouds have been replaced with new ones that have the same swaged eye at the top as the original. The thought being that the water will be flowing out of the fitting rather than into like at the bottom. At the bottom we changed to a new Norseman or Staylock cone type fittings and new turnbuckles. As an engineer I was suspicious of the old turnbuckles with those fine threads ideal for starting crevice corrosion of stainless steel....
     
  3. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    Thank you Stephen for your reply. You're probably right that each boats measurement may be unique and therefore pin to pins maybe be different among the boats. I wasted a lot of time with the first rigger but I think I am on the right track now. Changing the bottoms sounds smart, I didn't think of that. I have a lot of rust along the wire from them laying on the ground for years before I bought the boat. So, in my case, a complete change out is likely necessary. I will let everyone know however my wire lengths when they come in for whatever they may be worth. Long road but getting closer.!
     
  4. datswite

    datswite Ken Ferrari

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    As long as you're certain that the rigging you're replacing was of the correct length, ie, did you have enough adjustment in the turnbuckles to properly tune the rig? You don't want them bottoming out before you've got correct tension. Conversely, you don't want them so short that they're difficult to start threading them.
     
  5. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    Ken, I have never had the mast stepped. Bought it on the hard with the mast on sawhorses. So I don't know if the turnbuckles were originals. However, they look the same as another 382 that has all original rigging. The port side shrouds has what appears to be the original wire and turnbuckles. The strbd side has been changed with mechanical fittings so I am using the port side as template for both port and strbd. Keeping my fingers crossed. It's already in process of being made in the North Carolina rigging shop of WM. Long story on my boat but it has not been in the water since '97.
     
  6. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    Judging by the recent photos of the mish-mash of fiberglass placed under the mast step buckets by the builder, I don't think there was a fixed dimension there. The amount of stuff used there seems to be rather haphazard. That dimension would have a direct relation to the lengths of the rigging. So I'm thinking that the pin to pin lengths on each boat can and will be different. Might be best to use your original shrouds as templates.

    Jim
     
  7. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    Jim, I sent WM the port shrouds as they were original and had not be changed or modified by mechanical fittings. I asked that they make two, one for the port and one for strbd, using them as templates. They called today wanting the strbd wires too because they say the two side can have different measurements. How can that be? Not sure why they can possibly think that but I am sending those to them as well.

    I think your right that the mast boot and the way that was glassed in may make the mast out of the boat different heights so, your pin measurements may be indeed different than mine, but I am puzzled why one side would have different length wires than the other. I will comply with WM and will sent the other set nonetheless.
     
  8. jimcleary

    jimcleary James M. Cleary

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    John
    I am as perplexed as you are. It seems that the port and starboard shrouds would need to be equal in length to have the mast standing erect. Did you ever lay the shrouds on the ground, side by side, to see if their pin positions were equal? I'd be interested in the riggers explanation of his need to have both sets of wires.

    Jim
     
  9. Mitchell S Allen

    Mitchell S Allen Member

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    Our Morgans may have been a production line boat, but they were still man made. And I feel superior quality.
    Boats are not always symmetrical, though it wouldn't seem the M38 fit into this from what I can tell.
    The rigger seems to be trying to get things right, and perhaps cover "his" butt too.
    But, I know for a fact that my Moore 24 differs in dimension either side of the mast. And it is also extremly high quality hand built boat.
    Mitchell
     
  10. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    Thanks for your input Jim and Mitchell, I am always learning. I do think that the stays' lengths should be the same for our boat build. off they will go to WM.
     
  11. Mitchell S Allen

    Mitchell S Allen Member

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    I agree, they should be really close to same length. The only thing I can imagine is the chain plates may vary a little side to side. But the turn buckles should deal with any difference.
    Mitchell
     
  12. john Gonzalez

    john Gonzalez Member

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    when I get the wire in from WM, I will post lengths.
     

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